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Deal Done: Mo/Mason out, Luke Ridnour/Damon Jones/Adrian Griffin in

Brian Windhorst in Cleveland says it's done: the Bucks, Cavs, and Sonics will be completing a trade shortly that sends Mo Williams to Cleveland, Luke Ridnour, Damon Jones, and Adrian Griffin to Milwaukee and Desmond Mason and Joe Smith to Oklahoma City.

As we broke down yesterday, Ridnour's been disappointing the past two seasons but is owed far less on his current deal than Mo: $13 million total for the next two seasons compared to Williams' $43 million over the next five.  Jones had a quasi-breakout season with the Bucks in 03/04 following the injury to T.J. Ford and has an expiring deal worth $4.46 million. Griffin is a journeyman swingman who previously played for Scott Skiles in Chicago, but his $1.711 million 08/09 salary is reportedly non-guaranteed. 

In sum the Bucks would be shipping out $13.653 million while adding $12.671 million, providing about  $1 million additional room under the 08/09 luxury tax.  If Griffin is cut then the deal would net them about $2.7 million under the tax this year, but they probably won't be able to spend it all anyway.  Since Mason was expiring, the 09/10 benefit is simply the difference between Williams' and Ridnour's deals, which is $1.853 million.  The bigger cap benefits would come the following summer when Ridnour's deal comes off the books.

Acquiring two point guards for Williams leaves the Bucks with a logjam in the backcourt--Ramon Sessions, Tyronn Lue, Jones, and Ridnour would all be battling for time.  And if the Francisco Elson signing still happens as expected then the Bucks would be at the maximum roster size of 15.  That might suggest the Bucks aren't done dealing, but in moving Williams and Mason's expiring deal they now only have Charlie Villanueva left as an obvious trade chip--and they might be too thin at PF to deal him anyway. 

Meanwhile, Jones, Ridnour, and Griffin, cannot be traded with any other players for two months, but could be traded individually at any point.   So hypothetically if Miami decided they wanted Luke Ridnour tomorrow, they could have him for Udonis Haslem straight up (not that I'm expecting that to happen).  The current roster assuming the deal happens and Elson is also signed:

PG: Sessions/Lue/Ridnour/Jones
SG: Redd/Bell
SF: Jefferson/Alexander/Mbah a Moute/Griffin
PF: Villanueva/Allen
C: Bogut/Elson/Gadzuric

The guard situation in particular seems a bit odd, so I'm curious to see what the spin ends up being from the Bucks' perspective.  Clearly Mo Williams was viewed by the Bucks as deadweight in spite of his offensive productivity, and one can only assume that the trade market for him was minimal given the lack of discussion up until now.  Most Bucks fans would agree that the Mo/Redd combination just wasn't going to work--having two scorers in the backcourt who don't defend is awfully tough to pull off.  And since the Jefferson trade there's been a clear message that Redd was staying, which left Williams as the odd man out.

Talent-wise the Bucks would clearly get the short end of the stick, but then again the questions about Mo have never been related to talent.  Clearly the Bucks view this as addition by subtraction, though that might be tougher to sell to the average fan. The Bucks will get some financial benefits over the next two years and then even more flexibility once Ridnour's deal is up in 2010, but the near-term benefits won't be the same as they would have gotten in a straight salary dump. That suggests Hammond and Skiles do see Ridnour as more than just cap relief, though it's not clear what the point guard pecking order will look like once the dust settles.

As for Mo, he could be a terrific fit next to LeBron in Cleveland, where he'll also be surrounded by a more defensive starting lineup than in Milwaukee.

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Can someone explain what was wrong with Mo?

Attitude problems? Work ethic? He’s not an amazing player, but certainly a solid guy who could have amped his assists with a healthy Redd and Jefferson.

I find it comical that Skiles has gotten all of his favorite gritty vets back from Chicago. Joe Smith, Malik Allen, Adrian Griffin? Maybe he’s trying to channel Ridnour’s inner Kirk Hinrich?

I don’t want to be an ass, but I’m really looking forward to the awesome small ball lineups Skiles is going to trot out.

"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"

by Ozzie Montana on Aug 13, 2008 3:01 PM CDT reply actions  

Joe Smith is actually headed to OKC. As for Griffin, he seems like a good candidate to be cut if his deal is indeed non-guaranteed. I do hope that it’s a true open competition for the PG spot, because right now we don’t have anyone who was a starter last year.

It’s definitely interesting that the Bucks committed to keeping Redd and dealing Mo—it’s not like they really shopped both around and took the best deal they could get on either. They seem to have committed to Redd fairly early and then looked to deal Mo for whatever they could get. As for Mo, it’s probably some combination of his game and off-the-court attitude, which was questioned last year, in addition to his contract. Even his biggest strength (scoring) doesn’t mesh with the team’s needs, though you could argue that they could have also brought him off the bench (I think that would have been awkward to be honest).

by Frank Madden on Aug 13, 2008 3:08 PM CDT reply actions  

Oh wow, missed the Smith part

I guess it makes a little more sense then considering how many forwards the Bucks have. Addition by subtraction kind of deal it seems. But, if Williams had a bad attitude, he would not have made it under Skiles. He is very biased towards players, and Mo probably would have been non-existent in the rotation if he was a bad seed (or at least perceived to be one by Skiles).

"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"

by Ozzie Montana on Aug 13, 2008 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

I actually would have preferred Smith to Jones. I’m just not thrilled with our PF situation, especially since CV is a guy who the Bucks should consider dealing for the right price. Though I suppose you’re right that Skiles likes small lineups and so Alexander or even Mbah a Moute will be getting time there.

As for the guards, I don’t think the Bucks benefit much from having four rather than three mediocre PGs—I’d like to think they’ll look to move either Ridnour or Jones, but who knows. It does seem like the early indications are that they actually like Ridnour.

by Frank Madden on Aug 13, 2008 3:23 PM CDT reply actions  

Skiles Trade

This is a Skiles trade with some cost savings on the side. Williams and Skiles would have butted heads. He’s also brought in his second “safety net” veteran in Griffin. Skiles also frequently goes small at power forward, so that rotation might change a bit a camp.

My notes.

by ziffle on Aug 13, 2008 5:28 PM CDT reply actions  

I'm pumped

about this deal. It seems like an insurance policy for sessions. This will give him time to bloom without thrusting him directly into the spotlight if it doesn’t work out. That being said, I wouldn’t be opposed to trading a couple of those guards for a true power forward.

by kdfan16 on Aug 13, 2008 6:21 PM CDT reply actions  

I don’t see any benefit for the Bucks with this trade. I’m not huge on Mo, but we took on Jefferson and his contract till 2011. I don’t see what would’ve been the huge burden keeping Mo’s contract. I doubt the Bucks will convince a difference maker to come to Milwaukee with the money they are saving with the Mo for Ridnour swap. I also am disappointed in the inability to pry Chris Wilcox from the Sonics along with Ridnour.

On a brighter side, I like the logjam we have at positions, at least for the first time since the Toni Kucoch days, we might have a reliable decent bench. I think the improvement of our bench is the forgotten benefit in this offseason. Compared to Royal Ivey and the other D-Leaguers the Bucks have called their bench the past few seasons, our bench may be halfway decent this year. So long as Skiles can instill defense in all these guys, I think we will be fine.

Shout out to Vin Baker, Shawn Respert, Tractor Traylor, and Anthony Mason; you ruined my childhood.

by smitty7789 on Aug 14, 2008 3:22 PM CDT reply actions  

Agree with Frank

I’m really worried about our PF situation and assumed that if we did trade Mo, we’d end up with a starting power forward. Haslem would have been nice, although I’m assuming the Heat didn’t want to do that.

Instead we end up with a PG who couldn’t start for the 2nd worst team in the league last year, and is still 2 years from coming off the cap. OK obviously his talent level is a bit more complicated than that (the Sonics weren’t trying to win games last year)…and I do like the comparison someone made of Ridnour/Allen/Rashard to Ridnour/Redd/Jefferson.

You wonder if we could have thrown Charlie V into that trade (and he lands with either team), and we could have plucked Wilcox from the Sonics. I know Charlie V isn’t exactly a Presti guy (or a Mike Brown guy), but it would have nice to pick Wilcox up (expiring, more of a beast than CV).

Although knowing Presti he probably asked for a 1st Round Pick which Hammond was likely hesitant to throw in. We’ll see how it pans out.

by GloryYear2001 on Aug 14, 2008 4:22 PM CDT reply actions  

Sorry Smitty--agree with you too!

Wilcox sure would look good on the floor with Bogut/Redd/Jefferson!

by GloryYear2001 on Aug 14, 2008 4:23 PM CDT reply actions  

Trade Thoughts

I love the deal. Getting rid of both Mo Williams the player and Mo Williams the contract is an important move. The offense has consistently been under-performing with Williams at the helm. He was an excellent 6th man game changing scoring but he was a terrible floor general, he just could handle being responsible for other players on the floor. I think Andrew Bogut and possibly Charlie V will be the biggest benefactors from the extra touches and shots available on offense.

Ridnour is an odd but solid player. A very good offensive point guard. He’s a pass first push the tempo type of guy so he’s the perfect fit for the Bucks offensively. Unfortunately he’s a worse defender than Mo, his defense is what lost his starting spot and always kept his minutes down. It’s been an issue throughout his career. He played very well as the starter for that 50+ win Sonics team a couple of years ago, his game hasn’t deteriorated either, he should have been starting ahead of Earl Watson. There is talent there …. not much defense but good offensive talent.

I’m not sold that Sessions is the automatic starter … I’d like him to be … but I think they brought a proven player in Ridnour over for a reason. I expect he’ll be the starter but hopefully I’m wrong about that.

I’m wondering about Ty Lue. I never saw the point in that signing, he was in the way then and is in the way now. He wouldn’t have signed here if he didn’t expect to play and the Bucks wouldn’t have paid him more the minimum if he was the 3rd string. Lue adds a lot of confusion to the situation.

Agree with the Joe Smith comment above. He would have been excellent addition for the team. Bogut needs more help in the paint.

by Dave W on Aug 14, 2008 9:36 PM CDT reply actions  

Dave O hear what your saying, it just seems this trade doesn’t make the most sense. I feel it leaves the Bucks more identity-less than how they were before the trade. The moves Hammond has made all summer (acquiring Jefferson, drafting Joe Alexender and Luc) it just seemed the Bucks mentality was, we don’t care what position, we just want guys that ball. Mo Williams can ball better than Ridnour, there is no upgrade. It just seems weird that all of a sudden we care about salaries.

I have never cared about salaries but I wish the Bucks would’ve at least given Mo Williams the first half of the season to play with Richard Jefferson and all the other upgrades the Bucks have made this offseason. I don’t think Mo’s value would’ve gone down with half a season of playing with better players., plus I know I would’ve had a lot more fun sitting at the Bradley Center watching Mo Williams pushing the ball up the court than watching Ridnour.

Shout out to Vin Baker, Shawn Respert, Tractor Traylor, and Anthony Mason; you ruined my childhood.

by smitty7789 on Aug 15, 2008 1:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

and please excuse my grammar, i’m drunk

Shout out to Vin Baker, Shawn Respert, Tractor Traylor, and Anthony Mason; you ruined my childhood.

by smitty7789 on Aug 15, 2008 2:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

drunk and honest

-- "I do know that I plead the fizzif."

by Mitchell_M on Aug 15, 2008 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

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