Redd done for the season
Well, there it is folks. Gery Woelfel reports that Michael Redd tore both his ACL and MCL in last night's win over the Kings, a crushing blow to a team that has been barely hanging on to the 8th playoff spot with Andrew Bogut battling back problems. In theory Redd could be back for the start of the 09/10 season, but he might not be back at full speed for quite some time (ETA Ty writes that it could be a 10 month recovery). Either way, we certainly wish him the best as he sets out on a long rehab process.
Of course, the real question remains: what do the Bucks do now? CLICK FOR MORE...
There's no silver lining here--whether you wanted to ride the season out with Redd or trade him for cap relief and picks, a major knee injury makes either scenario irrelevant. So how good can the Bucks realistically be, and what are their options from here on out?
This season the Bucks are 17-16 with Redd and 5-9 without him. However, it's worth mentioning that the Bucks played nine of those 14 games one the road and 10 of those games came against teams currently in the playoffs. So they probably weren't quite as bad as their 5-9 record indicates. Last season the Bucks were a respectable 5-5 without Redd, but the year before that they lost 23 of 29.
And while the Bucks have become more offensively-oriented with Bogut out (read: their defense has taken a major hit), losing Redd and hopefully getting Bogut back tomorrow should at least allow them to be more defensively capable. Charlie Bell has typically started in Redd's absence, but Bell has also been out lately due to lingering soreness in his surgically-repaired ankle and I'd rather give Ramon Sessions or Luc Mbah a Moute a shot there anyway. Still, there's no other natural two on the roster aside from Bell, so getting him healthy would be a very good thing.
Bell and Mbah a Moute obviously aren't in Redd's league offensively, but both bring much better defense to the table. Even if Bell is back, expect lots of small backcourts with Ramon Sessions playing alongside Luke Ridnour, with Tyronn Lue also seeing more minutes.
Joe Alexander also stands to see his minutes increase. Redd had played 11% of the Bucks' available small forward minutes, and Jefferson and Mbah a Moute will probably see occasional time at the 2, which opens more minutes for Alexander at the forward spots.
If Bogut continues to struggle with his back issues then the playoffs can be written off. If he's healthy then the Bucks certainly have a shot, though they'll need Villanueva to continue his offensive consistency and Sessions will have to recapture the dynamic play he showed in November. In short, everyone needs to be as good or better than they've been, and even that won't be good enough if another rotation player goes down with a major injury. The Bucks likely don't have the firepower to win high-scoring games anymore, but Jefferson, Villanueva, Bogut and Sessions will at least need to keep them afloat.
Trade Deadline Decisions
Of course, this also raises the question of what the Bucks should be looking to do with the trade deadline approaching in four weeks. Trading Redd is no longer an option, so to me the idea of trading Jefferson becomes the primary question. I know the Bucks don't want to go into an all-out rebuild, but hanging on to Jefferson at the risk of losing Villanueva and Sessions just doesn't really add up.
With Redd gone, the Bucks might still be able to sneak into the playoffs but their best-case scenario--getting Bogut healthy, finding a groove in the last few months, and being a team capable of pulling off a first round upset--just isn't realistic anymore. Heck, even if Redd wasn't hurt you can make a very good case that they should quit messing around and do everything they can to keep their young players at the cost of winning now, since the vets aren't good enough to make them contenders anytime soon anyway.
So unless the Bucks think they can parlay Sessions or Villanueva into another good young player or two--and I have my doubts that someone like Mike Conley exactly fits the bill--it's Jefferson who should be the guy they're looking to move. As we've talked about in the fanposts, a team like Portland could be a good trading partner given they have expiring contracts (LaFrentz), a decent spare swingman (Travis Outlaw) and plenty of decent young players and future draft picks. Are they actually interested in him? Tough to say.
For the Bucks it all comes down to tradeoffs. While Jefferson's veteran presence has been of particular value on the defensive end, he's not quite the game-changer he once was so losing him may not hurt the Bucks on the court as much as one might expect. And more importantly, for a team that should be more focused on the future than near-term respectability, the idea of losing Sessions or Villanueva for nothing because Jefferson's making $14.2 million next season doesn't make much sense.
I'm not sure how valuable Jefferson is at the moment, but let's hope the Bucks are at least exploring their options. While the Bucks need a respectable season to regain some of the fanbase they've lost in recent years, short-term respectability shouldn't come at the cost of long-term competitiveness.
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Wow that really sucks
And I thought the Kings had real problems. This compares very poorly to losing Redd to a MCL & ACL tear.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
And I voted for the give up RJ option
If that means anything.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
RJ
They can ditch RJ and still make the playoffs. I have a feeling that Alexander is a lot better than we have seen. It’s all about confidence with him, and most rookies in fact. Mbah had confidence right off the bat and it transferred over to his play on the court. RJ is not a guy who dictates if a team wins or loses, he’s just a guy.
And even if they can’t make the playoffs without RJ you can certainly argue that the difference between making/not making the playoffs isn’t that big anyway at this point. So much is dependent on Bogut’s health that it’s tough to project all the probabilities now.
The poll question is admittedly a bit extreme in that it assumes you’re getting little value for RJ back, but I agree that there’s a chance you can dump salary without taking a monster hit talent-wise. The question is whether anyone wants RJ enough to send a respectable swingman back our way.
by Frank Madden on Jan 25, 2009 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
Frank
I agree with you that Portland is the best possible trade partner because of LaFrentz’s expiring, and the multiple young players they have (I think Rodriguez would be a good fit in MIlwaukee myself), and perhaps another player in return for Jefferson. Jefferson would also help the Blazers in their quest to become players in the short term. I imagine he would also help them in their perimeter defense, and the shoring of it up.
I think Portland & Milwaukee are destined to become trade partners. It’s like Sacramento & Miami will be come trade partners, or at least New York, Chicago and Miami are all linked together in some fashion.
I think people forget that connections in how you deal with teams are the most important things, but what each team has to offer each other is more important long term. That’s why I agree with you that Portland & Milwaukee have the natural asset’s to get a deal done.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
Meh I contradicted myself in the last paragraph (not a shocker there)
What my first sentence should say: “Connections are important in completing a deal, but the talent each team has to offer is more important to getting a deal done.”
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
Trade
I’ve been sitting on this trade proposal for a few weeks but I feel like this is the appropriate forum to trot it out…
Carlos Boozer and Kyle Korver for Jefferson and Tyronn Lue.
Who blinks first on that? Boozer isn’t likely to return to Utah, not that they will be crying about that with the development of Paul Millsap. They would be taking on the large Jefferson contract, but isn’t that the only way that Utah can get anyone to play there in the first place?? Utah currently has a wing rotation of Korver, Ronnie Brewer, Kirilenko, and I believe Morris Almond, not really a championship caliber situation there.
Wouldn’t Jefferson be the scorer they need to compete with the Lakers?
They also get to unload the unfriendly Korver contract and the Bucks get Boozer’s expiring deal AND become a playoff lock assuming Boozer gets healthy in time for the stretch run.
A Utah deal is very intriguing.
From an analysis standpoint, I’d start with RJ for Boozer straight up and go from there. If Boozer walks you’ve at least gotten rid of your luxury tax issues and can re-sign Villanueva/Sessions. If he stays then you’ve got an all-star PF making almost $2 million less than RJ, and letting CV walk isn’t so bad.
Plus you’re probably better the rest of this season as well. The question then becomes whether Utah does it…they can definitely use help at SF and if I were them I’d be committing to Millsap long-term, which makes Boozer redundant. Do they want to add a contract like RJ’s? He would certainly fit the experience profile they’re probably looking for. I guess it all comes down to what their other offers might look like. I’d probably throw in a protected first to do it.
by Frank Madden on Jan 25, 2009 5:18 PM CST up reply actions
Don't you worry a bit how Bogut & Boozer would mesh under that scenario though?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
Boozer’s defense is a concern and he’s not going to stretch the defense like CV, but I think he’s so good at what he does that you have to roll with it. Offensively Bogut’s not a main option anyway, so having two guys that can post is manageable IMO.
by Frank Madden on Jan 26, 2009 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
Utah fans say yes to Jefferson for Boozer.
http://www.slcdunk.com/2009/1/15/724804/i-m-torn-on-mr-boozer
I have witnessed time and time again.
I think Portland would like the deal you mentioned.
Or at least Portland fans would like it. The only thing I could think of going against it would be Richard Jefferson’s age. Portland is in a position to be patient and develop players who will peak together, making for a long (hopefully) championship window. Richard Jefferson is only 29 now, but in three to four years, when things really get moving, Jefferson is starting to slow down.
I, for one, could overlook that.
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We Shouldn't Gang up on RJ
RJ is a good basketball player and a leader on the team. He is a veteran presence who has been to the finals. With Michael out along with Bogut, he is the core that will hold things together. We should keep him, and if we trade him we should never do it for expiring deals.
Free agency is not Milwaukee’s friend.
Trades for picks and pieces are the only way for the Bucks. Free agency is our nemesis.
I agree that dumping guys for cap space is usually a trap—especially considering we’ve been a losing team in a small market—but from my perspective trading RJ would be all about retaining Sessions and Villanueva. If nothing changes then one of those guys probably leaves, and in the grand scheme of where the franchise is, I’d rather be able to retain young guys than older guys.
Even if both guys somehow got MLE deals they’d offer better value than RJ, who’s still a good player but just not a guy who deserves $29.4 million over the next two seasons. Or maybe you package RJ with one of those guys for an even better player. I certainly wouldn’t be opposed to selling high on Charlie right now, but I’m not sure what those deals would look like.
Another possible option is trying to use RJ to acquire a star caliber player that another team is worried about losing—ie Boozer (per Bucksketball’s suggestion) or Marion. I’m not sure how realistic that is, but that’d be my preference since you’re not worse off this year and then you at least have flexibility in the summer.
Whoaaaaa no Marion. Marion is nowhere near as good as Jefferson and would bring nothing to this seasons team. He is merely an expiring contract. I think getting Boozer would mean the Bucks are getting a guy they’d at least have a punchers chance at bringing back.
I agree with Madtownhoops with the theory that cap space isn’t as much of an asset for Milwaukee as it is for some places, but in this current economic climate cap space is nice, if for no other reason than to prevent owners from doing anything stupid, like trading Sessions.
I think Boozer and Bogut could work, Bogut is a very good passer and seems almost unwilling to take over offensively. He’d make up for a lot of Boozer’s shortcomings defensively too.
by Bucksketball on Jan 25, 2009 9:45 PM CST up reply actions
I disagree on Marion—his defense and rebounding would be upgrades to what RJ brings and fit the Skiles mold pretty perfectly. In fact, I like the idea of sandwiching CV between Bogut and Marion because you’ve got two solid defenders who can switch to guarding PFs if needed. The downside is that you can lean on RJ for points while Marion is just the ultimate opportunist—fast breaks, garbage around the hoop, etc. You don’t really run plays for him.
I should also be careful in my terminology…even if the Bucks wipe RJ off the books they’re not going to have usable cap space—ie money below the cap that exceeds the MLE. But it would give them breathing room under the luxury tax threshold, which is what they need to retain Sessions and CV.
Moreover, you might even be able to use your full MLE in that scenario—last summer they didn’t have that because of the luxury tax situation. And while guys that get MLE deals are often times not good values in the end, it’s at least nice to have the option.
by Frank Madden on Jan 26, 2009 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
yeah,
I think Portland would do it. Jefferson would give us a nice swiss army knife at SF. Hows his D been in Milwaukee?
Portland’s other glaring need is a non-scrub banger backup PF (Channing, if you are reading this, we love you, but we all know that you’re having trouble finding rhythm).
Anywho, I’d like for this trade to happen, though we’d miss Outlaw… He’s a great glue guy. I’d kinda rather give you Webster (if he wasn’t injured) and would definitely throw in Sergio, he’d help you guys a lot.
Blazer's fan since '84, Spurs fan when they are not playing Portland.
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Why does Portland want Jefferson?
First off this isn’t a knock on Jefferson. But as a Blazer fan I have to ask why do we want Jefferson? We are already well supplied with talented jump shooters, plus we already have three prospects at the SF position, including Webster, Outlaw and Batum. Second as someone else above pointed out he is significantly older than everyone on this team except Joel Pryzbilla. We aren’t going to win a title, this year or the next with Richard Jefferson, though he might help us in the playoffs, so why give up valuable assets, and cap flexibility to get him? What Portland really needs is a solid PG, who can run the offense, get the ball into the post and defend on the perimeter. I love Blake and Sergio, but neither of them can really do more than one or one and a half of these things.
I won’t argue that Portland needs Jefferson, but I also wouldn’t characterize RJ as a jump shooter. Villanueva/Redd/Ridnour are better in that area. Jefferson actually attacks the basket quite aggressively; he leads the Bucks in free throws made.
Fair enough, I suppose I haven’t seen enough of RJ to really make that statement. Though I continue to be surprised that the Blazers are brought up as trade partners for SFs, as I said we have too many as opposed to not enough. But that doesn’t mean I am not interested to hear why we might want RJ, and why you guys might want Outlaw and Raef’s “skills.”

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