Woelfel: Knicks to offer Sessions MLE?
by Frank Madden on Jul 18, 2009 10:22 AM CDT
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Gery Woelfel, easily the best thing to ever happen to the Bucks Twitter universe, is reporting that the Knicks are now the front-runners to pry Ramon Sessions away from the Bucks. Woelfel writes that Donnie Walsh will first explore possible sign-and-trade offers for Sessions, but in case that doesn't get anywhere New York is prepared to use their $5.85 million MLE to sign Sessions to an offer sheet. Unlike other suitors like the Clips or Thunder, the Knicks don't have anyone blocking Sessions from starting (sorry, Chris Duhon) so the fit makes sense.
Woelfel doesn't mention the possible length of an MLE offer to Sessions, which could be the determining factor in whether or not the Bucks match an offer sheet. The Bucks have been pretty mum on what they'd be willing to do, but I really don't see them matching a four or five year MLE deal, and three might be stretching it as well. The absolute maximum amount the Knicks could offer would be $34 million over five years, which factors in 8% annual raises off the first year salary. But even in that scenario the Bucks could match and avoid the luxury tax by waiving Bruce Bowen, cutting Salim Stoudamire, and buying out Kurt Thomas. The real issue becomes whether they want to commit long-term dollars to Sessions when they also have Brandon Jennings on the roster.
As for sign and trades, I can see two major stumbling blocks. One, there's that annoying collective bargaining agreement. Given both teams are above the cap, the whole base year compensation issue I mentioned yesterday would make it difficult for the Bucks to actually construct a deal with the Knicks unless some big contracts were involved. Then there's the further problem of who the Bucks would want in return. The Knicks surely won't be giving up on Danilo Gallinari or Jordan Hill just yet, and David Lee is still an unsigned RFA. Wilson Chandler isn't bad, and would give the Bucks yet another cheap young combo forward. Considering the Knicks can just sign Sessions to a contract and dare the Bucks to match, John Hammond doesn't have all the leverage here.
The Bucks could also try to unload a contract on the Knicks, but on first glance it just doesn't seem like the Knicks will want to risk adding an albatross deal like Gadzuric's when they're trying to have cash available for the summer 2010. We can dream though, right? Charlie Bell could also be unloaded, though his deal isn't as bad as Gadzuric's and he can actually give you some productive minutes from time to time. At the moment the Knicks have maybe $25 million committed in 10/11, giving them plenty of latitude to sign Sessions, make a run at a big free agent next summer (maybe two) and then fill out the rest of the roste with scrubs. If they do sign Sessions to an offer sheet, don't be surprised if Ramon asks the Bucks not to match--a big city, Mike D'Antoni's attractive system, and a lack of Brandon Jennings as long-term competition probably looks like a pretty good gig.
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as ridiculous as it sounds,
I’m not nearly as terrified of Sessions leaving than I thought I would be. Yes, Brandon Jennings is the future, but he won’t be a 35+ mpg guy for at least a year. His body simply isn’t where it needs to be to be effective in the NBA.
However, the way he performed in Vegas is promising to the point where a lineup featuring Ridnour/Jennings at the 1 doesn’t sound THAT bad. In fact, the prospect of Sessions leaving is almost a direct emulation of what I wrote back in June, right after the draft.
Jennings is here to stay, barring some unforseen tragedy or knucklehead maneuver. Keeping both Sessions and Ridnour doesn’t appeal to me, and I doubt it appeals to the Bucks. Sessions to the Knicks? Might not be that bad.
"I'm so clean, cats think I sip Ajax."
by Mitchell_M on Jul 18, 2009 12:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We Are Getting So Far Ahead of Ourselves
Brandon Jennings has potential, yes. He also did very well in Summer League. But the kid is a nineteen year old point. They always need time before they are ready to lead an NBA team. When his contract expires (and he most likely jumps to another team, like the Knicks), he will be the same age as Ramon is right now. Ramon has proven himself and is getting better all the time. We need him. Without him we are stuck with Ridnour as our backup point and this team truly might be incapable of making the playoffs. Dammit, this is why the wait and see approach is so useless. Every time it has been used this offseason, the home team has lost an asset or overpaid. Jennings will be good someday. Ramon is good now.
by MadTown Hoops on Jul 18, 2009 12:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
are you serious?
ramon is good now? he is a TERRIBLE shooter….shot 17% last year for 3 pointers….and doesnt handle the ball that good…i dont remmeber how many times last year he lost the ball just dribbling it. the only thing he is good at his driving the ball and taking it to the rim where he either makes his layup or gets fouled…thats where all his points come from. i say see you later ramon and take your terrible jump shot with you on your way out!
by MarkE24 on Jul 18, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Passing?
Important for a PG. Not that I don’t think Jennings can eventually handle the job, but Sessions is no slouch.
"I'm so clean, cats think I sip Ajax."
by Mitchell_M on Jul 18, 2009 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The other thing is that this means the Bucks lose Charlie V and Sessions for nothing in return.
by MadTown Hoops on Jul 18, 2009 12:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sign and Trade
What about a sign and trade with a team under the cap like Portland, OKC or Memphis? Would bucks take a Travis Outlaw or a Damien Wilkins or a Darrell Arthur?
by Dep H on Jul 18, 2009 12:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Portland needs Sessions,
their guys are always on our boards coming up with ways to pry Ramon loose. Clever bunch, Blazers fans. Memphis is always a possibility, but they might want to see what they have at PG for another season.
OKC won’t do it, mainly because Westbrook is their PG and bringing in another would ruffle his feathers. I remember he scoffed when someone suggested that the Thunder would take Rubio, almost in disbelief that anyone would question his handle on the position.
"I'm so clean, cats think I sip Ajax."
by Mitchell_M on Jul 18, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if one source of Knicks interest weren't enough
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-42-95/The-Best-Free-Agent-Nobody-is-Talking-About.html
here’s another. The man in the video is Dan D’Antoni (unknown if there is any relation to Mike D’Antoni), who both coached Sessions in AAU ball and currently works as an assistant coach for…the New York Knicks.
"I'm so clean, cats think I sip Ajax."
by Mitchell_M on Jul 18, 2009 2:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
its his brother
he was a hs coach until mike brought him into the league
Life is exhausting when you are this stupid.
I will talk about DeJuan Blair no more forever
by jonestr on Jul 19, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sign & Trade ...
Ramon and DG for David Lee?
DG might actually fit into D’antoni’s uptempo system … anything is possible, right?
by BigO1 on Jul 18, 2009 2:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
the only problem
that leaves Amir Johnson limited to backup center and Ersan Ilyasova limited to backup PF. Depending on your view of them as players, bringing in David Lee would stunt their growth.
However, losing Danny G for David Lee would obviously be a major coup.
"I'm so clean, cats think I sip Ajax."
by Mitchell_M on Jul 18, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but ...
David Lee is a proven commodity and that is the difference between him, Ersan and Amir. Amir has serious potential but he has shown, as early as this past week in the summer league, that he is still prone to fouling at a ridiculous rate. I’m excited that Ersan is back with us but he has a very reasonable contract and was probably only expected to log 20 or so minutes a night.
If this rumor is true and the Knicks covet Sessions then I think it’s time the Bucks get something in return and Lee is a proven starting PF (perhaps not the defensive presence I’d like, but he’s not bad and would expect he’d improve simply by having Skiles as a coach). Lee is a starter, and I believe there’s nothing wrong with giving a longer term contract to a proven player like Lee.
It’s highly unlikely that any of this would take place, but the point is that the Bucks are in the driver’s seat on this one and should use their leverage to get a proven player.
by BigO1 on Jul 18, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
all great points
I just can’t believe that the Knicks would get rid of a fan favorite like David Lee, especially when he is their only consistently productive forward. Then again, they ARE the Knicks.
I would have loved to see them get something in return for Charlie V, but a S&T would have likely been too complicated. If we lose Sessions, yeah it’d be great to get something in return. But as far as I’m concerned, the team already made two important acquisitions in Jennings and Meeks, which is a more successful offseason than other teams can claim.
"I'm so clean, cats think I sip Ajax."
by Mitchell_M on Jul 18, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sessions vs. Nash
I would like it if someone with a bit more statistical background would do a comparison between Sessions now and Steve Nash at the same point in his career. It seems that each have a lot in common, with the most glaring difference being that Nash has always had an outside shot.
I like Sessions because he already does the things that are harder to teach, he gets to the line with frequency and knows how to find his teammates. His teacher? Bill Peterson, the same skills coach that helped Nash hone his craft. I remember reading somewhere that Peterson saw the same potential in Sessions that he saw in Nash. As Thorpe has said in regards to Jennings, its easier to improve shooting than learn how to distribute or see the floor. I think that if we let Sessions go because of a few summer league games, we will regret it in the long run.
by MadTown Hoops on Jul 18, 2009 10:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I recall reading the same comments re the similarity in Sessions skills at the same development stage as Nash. Also, I understand that Sessions was going to really work on his shooting this offseason….and I’ve always read that the shooting skill is the easiest one to improve. It will be interesting to see if Sessions comes into the season with a decent shot (even if its not from 3 point range…just a consistent midrange shot would help).
Anyway, I don’t see how the Bucks would let a young PG get away for nothing. Matching a MLE offer wouldn’t put them in the luxury tax and if Jennings develops into a starting caliber PG in a couple of years, the Bucks could look to move Sessions or Jennings. If Sessions continues to develop, either the Bucks would commit to him as their future starter and try to move Jennings….or they will look to move Sessions. Young PGs with skills tend to have a market. If the Bucks end up with 2 starting caliber young PGs, they shouldn’t have a problem moving one.
by hunter11 on Jul 19, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Johnson and Fouls
David Lee is a proven commodity and that is the difference between him, Ersan and Amir. Amir has serious potential but he has shown, as early as this past week in the summer league, that he is still prone to fouling at a ridiculous rate.>>
======
The fouling problem has become an exagerated myth.
Their are three questions reagarding fouls
1. Does a player give a good foul or a stupid foul?
2. Doies his fouling hurt the team?
2. Does his fouling prevent him from being on the court?
1. The majority of fouls that Johnson gave in the LVSL were good hard fouls. He still has a tendancy to commit bad fouls but those are now far in the minority. More work is needed here, but that can be said for a lot of players in the NBA.
2. His fouling has never stopped in from being a very productive player while he has been on the court. In 2007-08 he was 3rd among all Pistons players in “on-court production”, Last season he was first among all Pistons players in “on-court production” see 82games.com
3. Last year in Detroit Curry had Johnson basically on a 2 foul limit per half. Not a 6 foul limit per game but a 2 foul limit per half. There were some games that Johnson was allowed to exceed 4 fouls (only 6 games out of the 64 he played in).
Curry’s 4 fouls per game limit was stupid. The NBA allows a player to commit 6 fouls in a game not 4. A team suffers when it commits a fifth foul in a quarter not when a player commits his 5th foul in a game unless it is a dumb foul..
A team does not suffer when a player commits a smart 6th foul in a game except by as a result thereof the player is disqualified after the 6th foul. A teams suffers when a player commits a 6th foul when it is then forced to replace that player with one of less ability. So why not let the better player use all of his fouls rather than bench him after his 4th foul in game for someone whose on-court production is worse?
However, Curry disqualified Johnson after the 4th foul. Where was the benefit to the Pistons as a result of Curry rewriting the NBA disqualification rules for Johnson?
As far as the this years LVSL, Johson missed very litte regular rotation minuetes because of his fouls. 10 fouls are permitted in a game so why not use the fouls as necessary to commit good fouls. The Bucks came within one second of having a perfect summer league holding opponents to around 73 ppg and about 40% shooting.
Last year when Johnson was on the court opponents shot 4% points worse vs the Pistons ans scored 9 points less per 100 posseesions.
Only time will tell if Johnson can be become an effective everyday starter in the NBA. I say let him use all of his fouls and stay on the court. If he can bring a solid 30 + minutes in a game (last year and for his career he has averaged less than 6 fouls per 30 minutes) with a high net on-court production. His foul rate is not so high that it would prevent him from doing this.
by Buddahfan on Jul 19, 2009 10:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
interesting perspective, Buddah, thanks
by Frank Madden on Jul 19, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BJ and the D-League
I think it is possible that BJ could play this coming season in the D-League.
It the Bucks resign Sessions to a reasonable contract and can’t trade Ridour who has one year left on his contract why not let BJ get some serious playing time in the D-League.
Last year in Italy his minutes were pretty limited. He needs experience big time. In the D-League he would get plenty of minutes and an opportunity to work on his shooting which he needs to do, Shooting is after all what they do in the D-League.
Unless he can get 15 – 20 minutes a game, every game with Bucks, I think it might be better to send him to the D-league this coming season.
I can’t see the Bucks letting Sessions go if they can sign him to a reasonable contract. Letting him go means that the Bucks are stuck with Ridour and a 19 year old rookie PG. This would make for a long season in my opinion.
I would like to see the Bucks sign Sesions to a reasonable contract send BJ to the D-league for this coming season and keep Ridour as backup for one more year, letting him go after this coming season when his current contract expires.
by Buddahfan on Jul 19, 2009 10:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I doubt it
If they didn’t send Joe down I doubt they do that with Jennings…I don’t think they want him getting developed by coaches not in the organization and it would look bad if they didn’t have him with the big club.
Ridnour doesn’t have much value but you’d think they could get a cruddy expiring at a different position if Sessions was brought back.
by Frank Madden on Jul 19, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alexander and BJ
Alexander only played in 59 games last season and averaged 12 mpg.
BJ will not be very happy with those numbers. He wasn’t happy last season in Italy about getting few minutes.
If the Bucks can find a way for Jennings to get zero CD-DNP and give him 15 minutes a game or more than I think he should be with them.
But if he is going to wind up getting 20 – 25 CD-DNPs and when he plays be used only sparingly, he will not be a very happy camper.
by Buddahfan on Jul 19, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he'll play more than Joe did last year
If Vegas is any indication, then BJ’s further along now than Joe was a year ago, and Joe also had RJ/Prince ahead of him. I have a hard time seeing the Bucks starting the season with Ridnour and Sessions both around, which would leave BJ as the only other real PG on the roster (they’ll also have Salim or a cruddy 3rd stringer around in all likelihood).
If Sessions is gone then the only guy standing in BJ’s way is a mediocre-at-best veteran, which is very different from what Joe was facing a year ago, though JA could also see time at PF. I will assume that Skiles once again gives Ridnour more minutes than I’d like, but I’d put 15-20 mpg as probably the minimum amount of time Jennings gets as a rookie.
by Frank Madden on Jul 19, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its All About Minutes
I would love to see BJ stay with Bucks and not go to the D-League provided that the Bucks give him at least 15 mpg with no CD-DNPs. However if his playing time is going to be eratic and limted by a bunch of CD-DNPs than I would rather see him get regular minutes in the D-League.
At this point I don’t think that any of us including the Bucks managmeent knows who the PGs are going to be yet alone how many minutes they may get.
I am just saying play BJ or send him to the D-League.
Now some may disagree and say that a 10 minutes in a game here and there is better than playing in the D-League. I can understand that, but that is not my opinion.
by Buddahfan on Jul 20, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree ...
And this would only hinge on Milwaukee signing Sessions; BJ is definitely staying if they let Sessions go. Let’s face it, BJ is VERY inexperienced at 19 years old and could benefit greatly from at least a couple months of D-League play!
I also agree with Frank though that it is highly unlikely … have you seen the opening page to the Bucks official website?
by BigO1 on Jul 19, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was on Shamsports the other day (I’m in Utah visiting relatives right now and there is nothing to do on the weekends), and I realized that Brandon Jennings is still unsigned. Maybe the reason for the Bucks hesitation on Sessions has something to do with the fact that their point of the future still isn’t committed. Any reason for the delay with Jennings?
by MadTown Hoops on Jul 19, 2009 1:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Just a FIBA thing apparently
by Frank Madden on Jul 19, 2009 1:43 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
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