Rumor Central: Sessions still unsigned, Bowen trade talk

by Frank Madden on Jul 22, 2009 11:06 PM CDT in News Comment 19 comments

Twenty-four hours ago I was marveling at how Chubby Wells seemed to have the media and New York Knicks on a string. After all, for days he'd been feeding the media info about how the Knicks and Clippers were on the verge of giving his client Ramon Sessions a mid-level deal, and some reports in the New York media were finally corroborating Wells' optimism. But hour after hour ticked by and the imminent offer sheet never came. The five year, $34 million MLE deal Wells originally wanted became four years, $26 million yesterday. Then this morning the Knicks were reportedly hoping to do a deal for slightly less than the MLE over four years. OK, so can we just sign the damn thing and get on with it?

Maybe not. With Andre Miller still available and 2010 cap room still their primary concern, David Aldridge reports the Knicks might be having second thoughts.

Several league sources said Wednesday that they believed the New York Knicks had abandoned their pursuit of Bucks restricted free agent guard Ramon Sessions, leaving the Clippers as the prime candidate for the 23-year-old. The Oklahoma City Thunder has a tangential interest, according to sources, but is not believed to be seriously pursuing Sessions.

In contrast, Gery Woelfel tweeted this evening that the Knicks were "still very much in the hunt" for Sessions. That's likely coming straight from Wells of course, so take that as you will.

Then again, it's not like the Knicks hadn't thought about their 2010 cap situation before they started negotiating with Sessions, so giving up on him entirely with the futures of Miller, David Lee and Nate Robinson still unclear seems a bit rash. More likely the Knicks simply realized that they were the best gig Sessions could find, and with the Bucks content to wait things out they decided to first focus on more pressing matters--like Miller. Sessions' only other realistic option seem to be with a notably worse situation in Clipperland, where he'd be buried behind Baron Davis while enjoying the sideline brilliance of Mike Dunleavy. I know the Thunder also have been mentioned, but with Westbrook and Harden around I don't see the logic. As much as Sessions wants to get paid, waiting out the situation in New York, even if a deal just gets matched by the Bucks, could be a more appetizing course of action.

Woelfel also tweeted today that Bruce Bowen was likely to be dealt soon, which at first glance would be a strong signal that the Bucks don't intend to bring back Sessions. Remember, a good chunk of the dollars the Bucks could potentially use on Sessions would come from waiving Bowen, whose $4.1 million salary is only guaranteed to the tune of $2.1 million if he's waived by August 1. It's possible he could be dealt to a team with a big enough trade exception to absorb his salary for nothing, but I'm not sure why anyone would bite on that when he'll likely be a free agent commanding far less than $4.1 million in a matter of weeks (unless cash was thrown into the deal). Ironically, Bowen asked via his own Twitter feed whether anyone knew anything about a potential trade.

0 recs | Comment 19 comments | Share

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Clippers

The Clippers have 3 PGs

1. Davis
2. Talfair
3. Taylor

Talfair is not bad and Taylor has had his moments in his bried NBA career.

I don’t know if the Clippers would want to make Talfair their starting PG of the present and future but as long as Davis is still getting his nice sized pay checks from the Clippers I would think that they would be content on Talfair and Taylor backing him up.

So in order to have a serious interest in Sessions, it seems to me that the Clippers would have to have a deal in the works to move Davis for a non PG. I have no idea who that would be since they seem pretty well set with the top 7 or so in their current rotation.

by Buddahfan on Jul 22, 2009 11:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Thunder

I don’t see the Thunder being interested in Sessions either unless Sessions would be content spending the next 4 or 5 years as backup to Westbrook. The Thunder now have Hardin, Weaver and Sefalosha all of whom can play the #2. I don’t see them using Westbrook much as a #2

In addition the Thunder still desperately need a center. Mullens may work out in the future but there is no way that they are going to get much from him this coming season.

So it seems that the Thunder and Sessions would be a very long shot unless the Thunder have some trade going down that would move one of their top two guards for a center.

by Buddahfan on Jul 22, 2009 11:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

3rd team with interest

just throwing this out there, but no one has said for certain who the 3rd team might be. everyone is assuming its the Thunder because they have cap room. however, it could just as easily be noise thrown into the mix by Chubby and, perhaps, there isn’t a 3rd team with a lot of interest. If we believe there’s a 3rd team, I recall reading somewhere it was a surprise team. There are some other teams out there who might be interested in Sessions at or around the MLE. Charlotte comes to mind…if, perhaps, they’ve decided Sessions is better than Felton (and I don’t think CHAR has used any part of their MLE)…and I think Sessions is a Larry Brown-type player. Houston could be another team. Brooks isn’t a pass-first PG and they don’t have much at SG either (assuming t-mac is sidelined). They used the injury exception on Ariza, so I believe they still have the full MLE. I don’t mean to complicate this…but there are other teams that make a little more sense than the Thunder, yet would be more of a surprise.

I agree that for the Clips to have significant interest, they would have to have some deal in place to move Baron…or, at a minimum, Telfair. Otherwise, the Clips don’t make a lot of sense.

by hunter11 on Jul 23, 2009 12:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

NBA players are generally paid based on their role with the team. The other determining factors are age and NBA experience. Salaries can range from a little under a million to over twenty million. A player is overvalued if what they bring to the table is less than what their pay scale suggests they should. Michael Redd, for example, is overpaid (some might say immovable) because his talents are replaceable yet he is paid like a superstar. Some positions are more valuable, with center and point guard the most valuable. Ramon Sessions is highly skilled, young, a two year veteran and plays point. Also his salary is restricted so that the absolute max he can get is still low on average. Worst case scenario: he’s paid a third of what RJ or Redd got last year until he turns twenty eight. Three months ago he was our point of the future. Why has so much now changed?

by MadTown Hoops on Jul 23, 2009 12:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Sessions To Play In Europe?

My understanding is that if Sessions does not get an offer from another team that he does not have to accept the Bucks QO for about $1 million and sign with them.

He could instead do what Childress did and sign with an international team. Since there are significant tax advantages to playing in Europe vs the U.S. Sessions could probably sign with a European team for as little as $750,000 for 2009-10 and still come out financially ahead.

by Buddahfan on Jul 23, 2009 10:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

He's not going to Europe

frankly, signing the one year QO and becoming an unrestricted FA next year when: (a) a lot more teams will have money; and (b) it won’t be a good PG crop, would probably net him a better contract than he can get now. He could seek more than the MLE and teams wouldn’t have to worry about MIL matching (they could not). Once teams that saved up all their money realize where Lebron/Bosh/Wade/Amare end up, they’ll start looking at the next tier of FAs. Unless Andre Miller signs a one year contract, next year you have Rondo and then ???

also, if he were to sign with Europe, MIL would retain matching rights as long as they extended a QO by the deadline each year (see Illyasova)….so, if Sessions ever wanted to return to the NBA, MIL would have a right to match and he’d be subject to the same lame Arenas rule.

I’ve long suspected that if Sessions doesn’t get an offer he likes from another team, he’s probably better off signing the QO and trying again next year, then entering into a below market deal likely to be matched by MIL.

by hunter11 on Jul 23, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Depends on the Offer

You are correct in that Sessions would be subject to the same QO if the Bucks do as you suggested and he returns to the U.S. aftewards. However, he would also be a restricted free agent if and when he returns. So he could play well enough over there to enhance his value as a restricted free agent for 2010-11 and beyond if he decides to return to the States to play. What if he goes to Spain and becomes a MVP over there? I think that would increase his value as a RFA if he decides to return

Economics are now dictating lower contracts. Childress got $20 million for 3 years to play for Olympiacos.

So let us say that Sessions gets offered a 4 year $20 million dollar to play in Europe. So he goes to Europe for 4 years. So what good does that do the Bucks if he stays in Europe for 4 years? In fact he could stay there until he retires. There is no time limit on how long a player plays in Europe.

My point being.

It seems to me that for 09-10 Sessions could very well wind up in Europe and if he does the Bucks lose him for this coming season.

Why not go to Europe if you get a good offer for 3 or 4 years rather than a measley $1.0 million? He knows that a professional basketball player can suffer a serious injury at any time. So why not take a good deal now rather than gut it out for one year when you don’t really know what will happen over the next 12 months? A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

Now I am not saying that he will play in Europe this coming year because I haven’t heard or read anything suggesting that he might. However, it seems to me that European, maybe even Chinese teams are keeping on eye on his contract situation and might just give him a very enticing offer.

I wouldn’t totally discount the idea like you appeared to have done.

We shall see.

by Buddahfan on Jul 23, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There Is One Reason

There is one reason that he might not get a good offer or any offer to play in Europe even if he is has only the QO.

That reason being that FIBA rules do not have a in the lane defensive violation rule. So therefore their bigs tend to park themselves in the lane on defense like they used to in the old days in the NBA.

So for Sessions who is not an outside shooter by relies more on his quickenss and athleticism to penetrate and score he would find it a lot more difficult to be an effective scorer over in Europe.

That limitation on his part could very well keep him from getting an offer to play in Europe or at least a good offer to play there.

by Buddahfan on Jul 23, 2009 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

still don't buy the overseas option

I don’t think the Arenas rule goes away if Sessions plays overseas…so he would still be limited to an MLE deal upon returning…even if more teams have money and world economics have improved. Also, most guys who have NBA talent and grew up in the States would prefer playing in the NBA. I’ve read reports that Childress isn’t all that thrilled about the lifestyle overseas. It might seem nice for a few weeks…but, at some point, you want to come home. Childress likely would have opted out of that contract if the Bucks or another team could have worked out a S&T with Atlanta. They couldn’t and Childress chose to spurn the Hawks for another year.

by hunter11 on Jul 23, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Issues with MLE and Max contracts

In the Book, Taking Shots, by Keith Glass, the author points out some of the issues that exist with the MLE and Max contracts. Glass is an agent, so he comes at it from that side of things, but still thinks the whole setup is wrong. He says that the owners setup rules like the MLE and Max contracts to protect themselves, but what they really do is create more problems.
Every player that is an all-star or marginal all-star gets the Max. Every starter/contributor gets the MLE when their contracts come up. There isn’t a whole lot done in between and that is just dumb.
The quality of players in the NBA spread a much larger spectrum, yet so many veterans are paid around the MLE or Max. Redd is a case of the Max. Sessions is a case of the MLE, whether he is worth the MLE yet or not, I cannot say, but he will be paid that because that is the system.
We’re Bucked

by We're Bucked on Jul 23, 2009 10:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Every Player That is an All-Star or marginal All-Star gets the Max

Not true

C. Billups, R. Hamilton and T. Prince did not get anywhere near the max in their last contracts with the Pistons.

by Buddahfan on Jul 23, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good point, let me reword it.
The max should be set aside for only the elite in the NBA. After Wade, Lebron, Kobe, Howard there really shouldn’t be any other MAX deals. Players like Billups, Pierce, and Carmelo should still get good paydays, but the max should not be a frequent contract given out. Teams should never be forced to give players like Redd a max deal. There are currently 14 players with Max contracts, that doesn’t really seem right to me.
We’re Bucked

by We're Bucked on Jul 23, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

4 years at 26 million. That sounds like an all right deal, however I still would only match three years or 4 at around 5 million a year. I understand Sessions has been very highly touted, but name me the last championship team that won with a point guard who can’t hit the three, besides Rondo.

Big thank-you's to Vin Baker, Shawn Respert, Tractor Traylor, and Anthony Mason; you ruined my childhood.

by smitty7789 on Jul 23, 2009 11:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Knicks off Sessions

It is being reported at NBA.com that the Knicks are out of the Sessions sweepstakes, the Clippers are named as the favorite.
We’re Bucked

by We're Bucked on Jul 23, 2009 1:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

Seeing that Michael Redd is the tenth highest paid player really puts his production into perspective, more so when you realize he still has annual raises on the horizon. Including RJ, the Bucks had two of the thirty highest paid players in the league on a team that had a ceiling of scraping the playoffs. The Bucks are making progress and, Sessions or no, I believe we are headed in the right direction. I just feel that there’s room in this town for two talented young points who pass first.

by MadTown Hoops on Jul 23, 2009 11:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Knicks making the move

http://www.waow.com/Global/story.asp?S=10780832

TV news station stating through varies sources (not just Sessions agent) that the Knicks are going to offer 5 years starting at the MLE (5.8). Interesting to see this less than 24 hours after David Aldridge stated the Knicks have moved on-maybe thats why David Aldridge isn’t on ESPN anymore.

by Bellringer21 on Jul 24, 2009 6:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

And I assume the Knicks feel with the 5 year deal and MLE price tag that the Bucks don’t match it which may be the case. There are multiple opinions, but the majority of them believe the Bucks won’t match it if the deal is 5 years long and costly.

by Bellringer21 on Jul 24, 2009 7:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm not buying any of these rumors

until an offer sheet is signed. This latest news could simply be an attempt to get Andre Miller’s camp to make a decision sooner. I think D’Antoni would like to lock up Sessions as his PG, but I think Walsh wants to maintain flexibility for next offseason just in case a big name comes over. Moreover, no matter what the offer might ever be, I still think the Bucks match….unless Skiles has told Hammond that he prefers to develop Jennings from day one.

by hunter11 on Jul 24, 2009 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unless the offer comes in 5mil+/year for 5 years, I see no reason why the Bucks wouldn’t match. Just for the trade value alone he’d be worth the expense. And even at 5 mil/year – and assuming he doesn’t completely flop from here on – he’d still be a highly tradeable asset through 2013 or so, even if he fails to develop much further.

Ridnour’s expiring deal and ability to provide decent backup at the point minutes will be valuable this year on the trade market, both for contending teams and teams ready to pack it in and clear salary. Until such time that Ridnour gets moved, we’d have outstanding depth at the point, and Sessions can put in some good minutes a the 2, so I take no stock in the notion that we’d have a logjam at the 1.

Barring some team coming out of nowhere, Sessions’ best move is to take the QO and bolt to FA next year. To me, that’s the most realistic worst case scenario for the Bucks, outside some horribly put together S&T or the Senator stepping in with some ill-conceived notion.

by swilldog on Jul 24, 2009 9:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs