Ford: Bucks looking to be buyers at deadline
by Frank Madden on Feb 15, 2010 5:09 PM CST
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PrintAs much as our readership is (understandably) skeptical of it, the Bucks are apparently positioning themselves as potential buyers ahead of the Thursday trade deadline. At least that's what Chad Ford is hearing, as he has the Bucks among five teams looking to add talent right now.
The Bucks have reportedly talked to both the Wizards about Antawn Jamison and the Pacers about Troy Murphy and shown interest in the Bulls' Tyrus Thomas.
Milwaukee will have to be patient, because other teams might have better offers to make to Washington, Indiana and Chicago. But if the Bucks are willing to throw their first-round pick into a deal, they might be able to trump other teams. As the deadline approaches, don't be surprised to see Milwaukee scoop up someone.
Don't get me wrong, the idea of adding Murphy to the frontcourt rotation for non-Ridnour expirings has obvious appeals. He's a quality shooter/rebounder who would help space the floor around Andrew Bogut, and he'd join Redd and Gadzuric as big expiring deals next season. But as we've discussed, the idea of sacrificing Ilyasova or the Bucks' first rounder seems steep--especially given Ilyasova has a terrific contract and could match Murphy's current productivity in a year or two. John Hammond told Gery Woelfel this weekend that no deals were in the works, but then again I'm not sure why he would say otherwise.
As for the draft, the downside of the Bucks' competitive start is that they're only looking at a mid-first round pick right now--not where you typically find transformative talent. That said, if the season ended today (and the lottery held to form) the Bucks would have the 11th overall pick, which certainly doesn't preclude the possibility of finding a long-term piece. This year's draft also happens to be long on power forwards, which I'd certainly categorize as a good thing from a Bucks' perspective. And while I know I sound like a broken record, I still think those are the kind of assets the Bucks should be stockpiling, not dealing away for good-but-not-great 29-year olds.
Murphy has also been linked with the Cavs and Kings, so the upside of a Suns/Cavs deal for Amare Stoudemire would be that it would take another Murphy bidder out of the picture. Whether Indiana is worried enough about their cap situation next year that they would give Murphy away for expirings is another question, and keep in mind that both teams having the maximum 15 players on the roster adds another complication for the GMs to wrangle with.
Jamison and Thomas each offer some intrigue, albeit at completely different ends of the spectrum. The 33-year old Jamison is an appealing name from a talent standpoint, but his deal goes through the summer of 2012, wrecking any flexibility the Bucks might have a year from now. And while his raw stats are still impressive (20 ppg/9 rpg), they mask a mostly predictable dip in efficiency compared to his last couple seasons. He's old...these things happen.
Meanwhile, Thomas is on the outs in Chicago for a number of reasons. The most obvious is his attitude, which has been an issue throughout his career (including when Scott Skiles coached him as a rookie) and has only gotten worse now that he's not getting starter's minutes in his fourth year in the league. Of course you'd tolerate some of the childishness if he was putting up 18/10, but for all the God-given ability Thomas has, he's never developed the game to match his swagger. On the surface, that makes him the last guy you'd want to add to a well-functioning, unselfish squad like the Bucks. But the guy in the devil's outfit on your shoulder might also point out that Thomas' athleticism and shot-blocking would be a nice shot in the arm given the existing frontcourt rotation. Besides, if anyone outside of the Bulls' organization has a good idea of Thomas' strengths and weaknesses, it should be Skiles, right?
For more trade-related speculation, check out Jeremy's rumor summary at Bucksketball and my take from Friday.
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The thing about the rumors....
that is both scary and frustrating is the lack of detail surrounding the speculation. It’s one thing to say we’ve contacted the Wizards about Jamison, but what were we offering in return? Jeremy at Bucksketball has who he thinks is on the block and who is mentioned to be interested, but the Caron for Howard trade was rumored before it was completed, and at least then there were concrete offers that were being discussed. Probably for two reasons:
A) Hammond has called to inquire about the players availability, nothing more
B) The lack of interest the media has in covering the Bucks has caused an information gap
Either way we won’t know the truth until a deal is made or until the clock strikes whatever on Thursday. My hope is that we trade away whom we can’t or won’t sign next year for any possible upside, whether it be a draft pick or an upgrade in talent.
Tyrus Thomas
Tremendous talent. Showcases some incredible athleticism and would team with Bogut to put fear in the back of every shooter who dares to enter the paint. But he is like HYPER-Warrick. The guy thinks he has a jumpshot. At least Warrick has a reason to believe. I don’t know if I have the requisite circulatory health to sustain a playoff drive with Ty Thomas learning on the job. But I am intrigued.
Chicks Dig The Long Ball.
Would Bulls really deal to us?
Would it need to be part of a 3-team-shuffling or would the Bulls really trade to benefit the team their closest to in the playoff race?
Maybe we'll think it will make you worse.
Here, have Tyrus Thomas! [villian mustache twirling] MUHAHAHAHA!!!
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
It’s funny because I’m sure there’s some of that feeling with the Bulls…they probably see him as a trojan horse :)
But GMs are often risk averse when it comes to dealing with rivals…even if they think they win the deal, the chance that it blows up on them might convince them not to do it. For better or worse you couldn’t accuse the Bucks of not having balls if they went after TT…
by Frank Madden on Feb 15, 2010 11:20 PM CST up reply actions
Ty Thomas
T-Squared has minimal value to the Bulls unless they deal him. They’re not going to give him an extention and they’ve moved on. Taj Gibson has displaced him. Would you trade Ridnour/Warrick/Top-3 protected 1st
for
Hinrich/T-Squared
Chicks Dig The Long Ball.
No Troy Murphy! Bucks are insane to trade a first-rounder
Ersan Ilyasova has a much better contract, more upside, and is a much more valuable asset to a young Bucks team than Troy Murphy. What would the highest estimate for additional wins be with Murphy on Milwaukee’s squad sans Ilyasova? 3 Wins? Not to mention we’d have to give up a decent 1st rounder yhat Hammond could turn into a rich man’s Troy Murphy.
Goal to season: make playoffs and improve team for the future. I think this team and can make the big dance without trading away young talent.
No Trade Needed
I will be disappointed with virtually trade at this point for any of these three guys. Only tyrus Thomas has any upside, and he is like a better amir johnson, a piece we didn’t want 3 months ago. Jamison? Really? so we can lose 4-1 in the first round instead of 4-0? That makes no sense at this point. Ditto for Murphy. At least his contract is done in 2011.
It seems like everyone that actually watches the bucks (the ppl on this blog) want the bucks to stand pat and not trade their draft pick. Let’s hope Hammond has a clear overall picture and doesn’t pull a Larry harris and trade for one of these guys.
Larry Harris WAS bad, hehe.
Sometimes it didn’t seem he really cared whether a trade would help or hurt the team… a trade needs to be made, damn it! Glad he’s gone.
I guess I don't understand the reason for buying.
What’s the hurry here? We aren’t talking about an aging team looking for a last gasp before inevitable rebuilding, or a team on the cusp of greatness. Yeah, the Bucks have played quite well lately, but does anyone really see them challenging the Cavs, Magic, Hawks, or healthy Celtics (and that’s just the East) with any of those mentioned in the article?
At least the Brewers had World Series aspirations when they acquired CC. There was a glimmer there with a healthy Ben Sheets. The Bucks aren’t one trade away from title contention. Why trade a draft pick or a manageable contract like Ersan’s?
The only guy that interests me is Thomas, but that’s only because I would guess Murphy and Jamison would require more in return. But Thomas is talented and the Bulls won’t give him away for nothing, especially to someone within the division. Probably not worth it.
Both Brandon Jennings and Andrew Bogut will be around for quite some time. Why take on another fat contract now and limit flexibility for the offseason? I’d rather wait and see how it plays out for the rest of the season see how things are going then.
Short term pressure
I agree the focus should be on the big picture, but I also think the Bucks’ brass feels some pressure to try to make the playoffs if possible and win some goodwill from the common fans. I’d also like to win some games in the short term if possible—I’m just not the type who can root for a tank job—but I’d also prefer to go with the group we have and let the chips fall where they may. If you can get a nice piece for the future that should be a priority over trying to win 40 rather than 38 games IMO. It’s tough, I don’t envy Hammond right now.
by Frank Madden on Feb 15, 2010 11:33 PM CST up reply actions
Larry Harris Era FA Signings
Could you guys do a little exposé of the genius Larry Harris player signings and resignings before the trade deadline?
Every time I see Gazooks listed in the ESPN Trade Machine I want to gouge my eyes out.
The Bucks official press release is so embarassing:
http://www.nba.com/bucks/news/Gadzuric_050812.html
Well he was right about one thing
Bogut being (our best player) does “complement” Gadz (our most useless one) very nicely. It’s amazing how MLE deals were being given away five years ago…
by Frank Madden on Feb 16, 2010 1:22 AM CST up reply actions
if the bucks are going to make a trade
please don’t give up:
jennings and bogut (obvious) or
ilyasova – good contract and very good upside
anybody else i could deal with as long as the bucks get the chance at some young talent or picks. wouldn’t mind seeing jordan hill in a bucks uni. kinda wanted the bucks to draft him, but i like what we got in jennings.
my ideal trade (if there is to be one) would be for a team looking to dump salary and willing to give up a high pick to do so. kinda tough to find, but if you can’t find it, don’t do it…. you are not going to improve the team enough to make a deep run in the playoffs anyway, why sacrafice the future for maybe one playoff series win…
Knicks/Rox
Disappointing to hear the Rockets might be able to fleece the Knicks for Hill/first rounder in exchange for McGrady’s expiring and dumping Jeffries deal. Personally I’d be willing to take one more year of Jeffries’ bad contract to get Hill and a first round, would love to see the Bucks try to get in there…
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-knicksrocketstrade021510&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
by Frank Madden on Feb 15, 2010 11:27 PM CST up reply actions
Miami is now targeting Amare, per ESPN, which wouldn’t bode well for Milwaukee catching the Heat this season.
Yeah, not cool
As much as I dislike the Cavs, I’d rather see Amare in Cleveland than Miami.
by Frank Madden on Feb 15, 2010 11:28 PM CST up reply actions
What do you guys think of becoming part of a 3 team deal between the cavs and suns. Something like this could net you Jason Richardson for expiring contracts.
Richardson is at the very least the dynamic 2 you guys want Michael Redd to be and could be a boon to your backcourt rotation. while his contract is ugly on paper it could actually be an asset, as you could use it to swing a nice sign and trade deal this summer or ship his expiring contract for something nice next year at the deadline.
Being a cavs fan I’m interested to see what you guys would think of a deal like this.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
Oh Boy
So it’s 2:20 in the morning and Brandon Jennings just tweeted this:
I’m Bipolar. (true Story)
8 minutes ago from web
Women LIe, MEn Lie!!! Thats why I say SINGLE!!!!!!
13 minutes ago from web
i need the drought 7 who got it?
22 minutes ago from web
Ohhhkay
I’ll leave this one to you guys
I think buddahfan might know a thing or two about drought 7.
by MadTown Hoops on Feb 16, 2010 2:27 AM CST up reply actions
He says some really random stuff on twitter…whatever, as long as he keeps it over there I won’t judge…
by Frank Madden on Feb 16, 2010 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
Mostly worried about the bipolar thing. He had it off by the morning. I just wonder if he might have a bit more Marbury in him than we first suspected. If he is seriously depressed, I hope he’s getting the help he needs to get through the dark times.
by MadTown Hoops on Feb 16, 2010 6:56 PM CST up reply actions
Buyers yes
Troy Murphy no.
Not even for expirings or for non-Ridnour expirings. The Pacers should be forced to add some value to drop Troy Murphy.
Massive defensive liability + overrated rebounder + overrated passer + flawed offensive player. Murphy has a couple of high end talents (the trailer three, pick’n’pop, can do some damaged when allowed to go left off the dribble), but his game has too many holes. He can’t make a difference this season (or in the next one) for the Bucks.
Sounds like it's irrelevant now
Mike Wells of Indy Star tweets “cross milwaukee off the list for murphy, according to a source”
by Frank Madden on Feb 16, 2010 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
Joana, as someone looking to buy are there any specific guys you would go after? I thought it was interesting that Chad Ford mentioned the Bucks were interested in both TT and John Salmons, though I’m not sure what the Bulls would want in return.
by Frank Madden on Feb 16, 2010 3:12 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know
I guess I’d be more of an opportunistic buyer. I wouldn’t sacrifice future options, including the ability to sign useful free-agents with bird/non-bird exceptions, let alone bigger things, for a very marginal gain this season.
Thomas and Salmons would depend on the price.
Thomas offers some solid ability/good potential: solid defender with excellent defensive potential – great quickness+mobility for his size. Decent rebounder with the potential to be very good. Low maintenance offensively. Selfless player. Improving jump-shot. Unfocused, but in this aspect of the game he did his best so far under Skiles, I think. He’d be an useful player for the Bucks this season. Unfortunately, I think the chances that he may reach his potential are somewhat low and the importance of his contribution this season would be limited by the presence of Ilyasova/Warrick. He’d be a good acquisition though.
Salmons is a good player for bad teams (2 ways player who can construct shots and score efficiently) but too much of a ball-stopper for good teams. Struggles when he isn’t touching the basketball a lot. Very poor passer. Tunnel vision. Declining rebounding skills. Plays poorly off the bench. The Bucks aren’t really that good anyway, so Salmons would be a good fit. Salmons+Delfino+LRLMAM+Bell is a competent wing rotation.
Salmons+Thomas would make the defence very strong. Plenty of versatile defenders able to guard multiple positions on the rotation. Opens lots of possibilities in terms of p’n’r defence. Strong possibilities of making the playoffs with them aboard.
Are the Bulls offering Thomas for a team that takes Salmons off their hands? Wouldn’t be surprised, they need to dump some 10/11 salary. If so, I’d try to work a deal. It’d be nice to keep Ridnour/Thomas, though (or find quality replacements for them somewhere else).
It’s difficult to think of available players that would immediately improve the team and make sense for the future. There are always players with contracts that run past 2011. I’d like to make a run for Iguodala or even Kevin Martin, but this isn’t the season yet. Maybe in a year. Is Walsh shopping David Lee? He should be trying to dump at least one of Jeffries/Curry, even if the price is losing Lee.
I really don’t know, it depends on who the teams are shopping.
this might be nucking futs, but...
If I recall correctly that league insurance would be covering 80% of his salary, how appealing is Redd to teams in money-saving mode?
I’m fairly sure that the insurance deal wouldn’t affect anyone’s cap numbers, but if a team out there living on the cheap thinks they’re going to be on the outside looking in for 2011’s FA bonanza, OR if a team had their eye on using Redd’s then-expiring contract for a move next year (especially if it he’s still only costing them 20%), would that be sufficient to garner some interest?
I know it wouldn’t be a game-changer type trade, but it’d be nice if he could bring us a piece or two to get us into a 5-6 slot in the East – especially if we could keep our #1 draft pick.
I know it sounds pie in the sky, but am I totally high on this one?
I think we have to wait six months
Given all the 2010 expiring deals still out there I don’t think there will be any sort of market for him until next year. Insurance won’t start covering his salary until the last couple weeks of the season so until then he’s just a cash sinkhole, and there’s also a lot of uncertainty about whether he even tries to come back. To be honest that’s probably the worst case scenario at this point, because I can’t picture him being of real use on the court in the next year and if he does come back it wipes out the insurance benefit.
by Frank Madden on Feb 16, 2010 7:22 PM CST up reply actions
The Miami Heat have failed to recruit the Charlotte Bobcats as a third team in trade talks for Amar’e Stoudemire(notes), league sources said. The discussions centered on Charlotte taking on Udonis Haslem(notes) in a deal, but the price ultimately made no sense for them.
We should see if we can be the third team. Udonis Haslem would be a fantastic addition to this team. We missed on Caron Butler and Camby, but there are still valuable players out there that would help this team. The Spurs are shopping Roger Mason. Also Drew Gooden might be bought out and we wouldn’y lose anyone for his services.
Chad Ford is a joke...
Chad Ford never does any real reporting he just creates rumors from his house in Hawaii
I’m a professor in Hawaii but I’m also secretly a hip reporter for SI. I would do that full time but I have Leprosy.
by MadTown Hoops on Feb 17, 2010 4:54 PM CST up reply actions
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