full of Bull
by ILIKEBJ'S on Mar 13, 2010 1:23 PM CST
31 comments
Is it just me or is it just sweet to sit back and watch as karma, kismet, fate whatever rules the Bulls coached by Vinnie D, trade away Tyrus Thomas, John Salmons, for chump change, then watch as Joakim Noah goes down, Rose get beat up trying to do it all, Taj Gibson tries to play on a bum foot, Hakim Warrick dunks and does nothing else team wise the whole game, & their forced to watch Joe Alexander & Acie Law awkwardly 'play' for 2 minutes per game.......all meaning Flip Murray gets to play freestyle on offence.........now all we need is for D-Wade to re up with Miami
maybe its just me
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I agree with you Mr. BJ Lover...
I love seeing every team in our division pretty much in shambles…. now if only it can happen to Cleveland as well…
I was kinda opposed to LBJ leaving Cleveland for a bigger market because I f’in hate when players do that but I think that would be awesome if that happened now and Chicago didn’t sign any big FA’s…. the division could be ours for years and years if that is the case…
Chicago
Unless of course Bron-Bron decides to follow in Jordan’s shoes and becomes #23 part deux in Chicago.
PG – D-Rose
SG – Deng
SF – Bron
PF – Trojan Taj
C – Jokin’ Noah
That would kinda hurt.
Chicks Dig The Long Ball.
$$$$$$
by the way does Chicago have enough space to max out another guy if they did sign LBJ? or get Joe Johnson to sign for less
D-Rose
Joe Johnson
LBJ
Taj G
Joakin
yikes…..hmm what can read into LBJ saying he will change his number next year from 23…..can read it both ways I suppose
J-Sloan
With that lineup, I wonder if they could convince Jerry Sloan to buy his way out of his contract (or really, you would think the Jazz would simply let him out of his contract if he wanted to leave).
But always the class act, J-Sloan’s roots are firmly embedded in Mormonville, Youngstown.
Chicks Dig The Long Ball.
Bench
They would also have a 8-9 man rotation of:
D-Rose
JJ
LBJ
Hinrich
Deng
Trojan Taj
Jokin’ Noah
Our #28 pick
Brad Miller’s Rotting Corpse
Chicks Dig The Long Ball.
yeah it’d be sucky if LBJ blows town and your a Cleveland supporter, maybe if the Cav’s & LBJ win the championship and then he bolts that ease the pain a bit!
Always makes it better when the shambles is pretty much self imposed! And I didnt mention it because my bran can hardly compute that Chicago does have that Jerome James on it’s roster and in likelyhood will have to trade draft picks with the Bucks….ouch where do I get a refund, almost makes taking Joe Alexander worth it last year………….almost
Interesting name. If James leaves the Cavs, than it would really open up the division. Unless of course he goes to Chicago. Than we’d be in trouble. Not as much trouble if he stayed in Cleveland. But still some trouble. What happened to the Bulls? I can’t see them continueing this downslide.
im a sucker for Brandon Jennings is all
poorly coached, poor front office decisions, poor health Id say have seen the Bulls crash? guys like Loul Deng, Hinrich & Miller just seem abit past it, okie in Miller’s case waaaaaaaay past it, still a team with Rose, Noah, and the aforementioned should be pretty good right? maybe its me but there coach sucks, which isnt surprising since he had no coaching experience before…go figure who makes these decisions and how they still have a job
I have to say my sympathy lies with the cavs and the whole free agency thing, but really signing guys like Donyell Marshall, Larry Hughes early in James career, then getting Wally from the C’s, Big Ben Wallace on the down kinda hamstrung for awhile, then last year Mo Williams, no surprise, kinda blew in the finals against the Magic…….they screwed themselves for a few seasons kinda the opposite of Oklahoma who got Durant and are putting really nice young complimentary guys around him
for me there are three maybe four players id pay max to LBJ, Wade,Kobe mayyyyybbbbbe D.Howard, guys who will always have you thereabouts come Finals time……otherwise your just maxing out a guy who cant carry a team and locking away your future for no reason hello Agent Zero
anyway whomever the bulls get, im guessing someone like Joe Johnson?, hopefully it goes as well for them as signing Ben Wallace did
What happened to them?
They misused their talent, or they threw it away, or in Brad Miller’s case it lost 8 steps. They need to trade Kirk Hinrich, he’s too good of a point guard to be used in the way that their using him. But the biggest mistake they made was firing Scott Skiles.
by Donald Driver on Mar 13, 2010 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
yes sacking Skiles & then replacing him with Vinny Del kinda defeats the purpose
its kinda like your doctor telling you need get some more omega 3 in ur diet, then going and eating a fillet-o-fish
though from what I can remember they were playing kiss & tell with D’Antoni but they low balled him on the deal or something or other and he went to NY, thats worked out well for both so far………at least they both got to work with Jerome James, every cloud has a silver lining
Young coaches
I kind of chuckled when I saw the Bulls go with Vinny (0 coaching experience at any level) and Michael Curry (essentially zero) in 2008—obviously as Bucks fans we’d seen the hazards of young/inexperienced coaches time and again, so we knew the value of a proven winner like Skiles.
That said, I have to give Vinny some credit—he’s been learning on the job, often painfully so, but they did their damage in the playoffs last year and then managed to come back from the dead when it looked like VDN was a goner in December. They’re getting killed by injuries of late, but VDN has hung in there reasonably well.
As for Detroit, they pretty much got what they paid for. I’m not sure if Kuester or Dumars is more to blame for what’s happened to them this year, but in the big picture you have to put the decline of that franchise on Dumars given he gave away Billups, signed Hamilton long term (what?) and then blew the money he saved on Billups by spending $90 million on two bench players in Gordon/CV. Aside from drafting Jerebko and picking up Bynum (two comparably small moves), he’s really eaten it big time over the past two seasons.
The Darko Pick
It needs to be brought up again. Dumars screwed the pooch there. If I told you that of the top-5 guys in a draft (a draft immediately following a banner-hanging season), 4 of them would be considered top-15 players in the league while one would be considered a Bowie-type bust), and you decide, “Hey, this could arguably be the greatest draft ever. Let me get that mystery prize behind the [Iron] curtain…” You shouldn’t be able to live that mistake down. It reminds me of the UHF sketch (one of the most criminallt under-rated films of the 80’s and really…ALL TIME!) “The Wheel of Fish.” As the Karate Dojo Long Duck Dong queries the contestant, “So what’s it gonna be Weaver. The Fish or the Box?” And mind you, it was a very nice Red Snapper… Very tasty. Instead, upon the box being lifted to reveal nothing, Ms. Weaver is informed that she wins “Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Stupid! You so stupid!”
Chicks Dig The Long Ball.
5 years of Charlie V
maaaayybbbbe im being a tad harsh on Vinny, yeah he did look dead man walking earlier in the season and he fought back and they have had some injuries. Im interested to see how Tyrus Thomas goes in Charlotte maybe the guy is just a total headcase for any coach, but number 2 pick with a ton of potential for Flip Murray & Acie Law…….errr even Jordan couldnt get that one wrong!
It’s kinda ironic, they fire a really good coach and because they have to pay his contract they go cheap with the new guy, in Detroits case the way Joe Dumars goes through coaches I imagine they might still be paying off Rick Carslile ;)
maybe they should start look at who hired the coach in the first place
Yeah that has to be top 5 worst move of the last decade by Joe Dumars, try moving one of those contracts without including a top 5 draft pick in the deal!
should we also mention that they also flipped Affalo to the Nuggets in the same package.ouch
The Bulls did what they had to do
Rose+Noah+Deng is an excellent core, Gibson is a valuable role-player under a rookie contract and James Johnson can still be a very good player. That kind of talent can be very attractive to an All-NBA player – I suppose their primary targets are Wade first, Bosh second.
Tyrus Thomas has plenty of realizable potential but he needed a change of scenario to have a chance of fulfilling it. Salmons was a stopgap.
I think they made the right decision – a better one, besides trading Thomas for talent or pick, would have been to trade Hinrich for expiring contracts but I’m not sure if that deal was there to be done. I suspect it was at some point but they waited too long – but I’m not sure.
Difficult to predict if they’re going to be successful in the FA season but I like they gave themselves the chance of building an extremely strong team.
question is what they end up with
its an interesting thing to look at all these teams clearing cap space for the next free agency bonanza. All these teams clearing cap space but there are really only a few players worthy of that space to go around say LBJ stays in Cleveland, Wade stays in Miami which basically means Miami have to land one of Bosch, Boozer or Stoudemire right? That means your suddenly looking at Joe Johnson a really nice player, but what does that make you another Atlanta maybe at best a third or 4th seed in the east, then you really start looking at guys that are a stretch and ur going to overpay like Rudy Gay, and you’ll end up wondering why did we pay this guy so much……………..
admittedly yeah with that core Rose+Noah+Gibson, who I include instead of Deng who I think has a horror contract and in a year or two Chicago will be ruing that, Chicago have a pretty good chance of landing I suppose one of the big three LBJ, Wade, Bosch as anyone but its a bit of crap shoot
at least its a plan
The plan?
Should we applaud a team for having a plan if the plan is half-assed? They need a big (since Jokin’ Noah is as big as Justin Timberlake. They have an over-crowded backcourt. Their two highest paid players presently would be rendered obsolete if they go after Wade. So they immediately declare Wade is their primary target. Then again, I see no way Bosh is going to leave Toronto unless it’s a sign-and-trade and unfortunately the only two assets that the Bulls have that would much up salary-wise well for such a scenario are also pieces that have no real value to Toronto (I def. prefer Calderon to Hinrich).
Chicks Dig The Long Ball.
I can't really think of a compelling reason for Bosh to stay
OK, they can offer incrementally more money, but I’d assume a five-year max contract from someone else would still be enough to pay the bills. And as you implied, if Bosh simply says I’m done then that puts Toronto in a position where a S/T is as good as they can do. It’s very possible they pry some value out of it, but I don’t think the Raps are in any position to play hardball.
We’ve touched on Dumars’ foolishness giving CV/Gordon $90 million, but I’d prefer those deals over giving Bargnani/Turkoglu $103 million. At the very least Detroit isn’t endangering their ability to keep a true star-caliber player, while Toronto basically gave Bosh the finger: not only are we giving you an overrated, 30-year old wing to be your second banana well into his way past prime days, but on top of that you’re going to keep having to play next to a center who doesn’t rebound or take defensive pressure off of you. Because he’s really a PF, but that’s your position, so oh well.
I have to wonder if Bargnani would still be around if not for the fact that Colangelo can’t bear to trade the guy he picked first overall. He’s not useless and that draft was full of landmines, but I just think he’s a really poor fit with Bosh. And at the end of the day Bosh is the guy who you would think is the most important to keep happy. Instead Colangelo overpays Hedo, commits to Bargs and then tosses a bunch of cash at Bosh’s buddy Jack just to throw him a bone.
by Frank Madden on Mar 15, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Houston calling
there interesting Toronto they just seem like a badly assembled team. Quite a bit of talent but no parts that mesh together to form a cohesive unit……Bosh, Bargnani, Turkoglu, Calderon, Jack, Demar DeRozen, Amir Johnson, Nesterovic isnt the worst back up but maybe thats just from watching Dan Gadz…….you’d figure a GM could turn those pieces through some decent trades into a pretty good team…..obviously it hasnt happened…
I think theyd be disappointed in Calderon play after getting rid of TJ Ford, always a good move anyway, and handing the reigns to Calderon it hasnt really happened for him
I feel a bit for Bargnani, seems like what he needs is a situation like Rashard Lewis to be effective
What is the word on Triano as a coach, hardly seems a improvement on Sam Mitchell, in fact Toronto have a reputation as being perhaps the worst defensive team in the league?
hmm anyway all of this doesnt reflect well on Colangelo which is interesting, as it was quite a coup when they got him. Well Bargnani isnt working out his coach isnt working out, his big free agent signing isnt working out, and if Bosh leaves…..err its all not working
Id find it hard to believe that he at least didnt tap Bosh on the shoulder and get his opinion, maybe not to the extent Danny Ferry has to get Lebron sign of approval on every deal, but at least get a feel for what he wants…………….If im Bosh signing Jack would have to be the biggest insult, but he seemed to be well on board with that move?
anyway with Colangelo’s penchant for euro talent signings im figuring Morey turns Luis Scola, Jordan Hil & David Andersen into a starting lineup of brooks, martin, Ariza, Bosh, Ming
depends who is doing the planning?
yeah I do have a funny feeling the funniest thing would be if everyone stays put and suddenly all these teams start to panic scrambling for b grade & c grade free agents…..Id love to see a bidding war break out for Rudy Gay……hello NY it’ll make handing over their first round pick even better thank you Mr.Thomas for that one, your the gift that keeps giving……..the question is in chicago do you trust that front office? Id say no ever since they blew their load on Ben Wallace its been a kinda a shambles whether thats on Paxson or Reinsdorf I dont know but they dont seem to know what they are doing, anything good happening just seems good luck, not good planning ie lucking into D.Rose
95% of the time it seems like your better off not signing those 2nd tier guys to really good contracts Hinrich, Deng, Ben Gordon, Josh Howard, Charlie V, because you usually end up regretting it within a season or two and that contract suddenly becomes and albatross
one of the moves, non moves of the season was not signing sessions and taking a young guy in the draft to replace him, who just happened to be BJ
kinda like Nuggets, instead of signing Dahntay Jones to a needless contract cos of a few good games trying guard/tackle Kobe in the playoffs they let him walk and replace him with Affalo who they got, stole, when Dumars melted down last year in the Iverson deal. For me thats quality front office management
2nd tier contracts
There are some very good contracts. Immediately I think of the David West deal. Steve Nash’s original Phoenix contract. Even Josh Smith’s recent contract (though I’m almost positive that there is a 3pt shooting stipulation, has to be!). Raef LaFrentz. Theo Ratliff. Erick Dampier (instead of that Steve Nash guy). Jermaine O’Neal. Brad Miller. Sammy Dalembert. And our very own Danny Gadz. Notice a trend?
Maybe the Bulls’ FO will be stuck with a barren market and the implicit bidding war for Rudy Gay will force the Bulls to take on Sammy Dalembert. High comedy!.
Chicks Dig The Long Ball.
think twice, no think thrice before you sign anyone over 6-10 to a long term contract? In the end your better off just saying no, I think we can throw Eddy Curry in there as well, maybe just stipulate any contract that Isaiah signed and finish it off?
Id personally like to see the Bulls get back Elton Brand it’d be like a circle of life
amazing really J.Smith 6 3 pointers the whole year, and up to 4 assits, wake me up,
the penny literally dropped, Sheed drops six in a half these days
What's the downside for them?
I’m not adept of the “plan” theory – circumstances change too much and too fast in the league. The best plan is drafting well, making smart signings and shrewd trades.
But one needs to make decisions, and for the Bulls it was a very easy one, I think. The potential benefits trump what they already lost and may still lose.
I like Deng – very good defender and rebounder, above average as a 3rd option offensively. If they sign Wade, they become automatically a title contender. If not, they’re more or less in the same position they were 2 weeks ago but better financially.
Loul
I like Deng too, and he is having good year after pretty avg previous year, Id like him alot better if I wasnt paying him $71 million over 6 years, given he is 24 only, but he is avg 18/7 and shooting 46% fg its like ok but if you a had a do over would you do that deal again if your Chicago Id say theyd so no we wouldnt in a heart beat if their honest
My thing is they dont get Wade and thats pretty much up to Miami being able to get him some help that a) doesnt need rehab b) doesnt get dui’s c)is actually worth their 20 million dollar contract……….they are still going to spend that money on someone who isnt worth it so being better off financially is kinda a catch 22, they get Wade yup that cap space is worth it they dont they just waste it on a middling talent
The NYK Theory
Convince your audience that they’re going to be better off in the future at the price of the present. But what if the tomorrow of which you speak never comes?
With the Salmons trade, they gift-wrapped exactly what we needed for a playoff run, and then said, “By the way, because we’re getting a shiny new Jaguar for our birthday, you can have my ’98 Accord.” But what if when they look in the garage on their b-day morning, all they find is a ‘99 Accord and now you’re also out the price it costs to register it and because of some subjective assessment, your insurance also doubled. Or worse, what if you open the garage and there’s a shiny new Schwinn? Or nothing at all? But at least Chicago has some hope for next season, even if it comes as the small price of simply switching draft picks. But what if the Wade/Bosh dream becomes the Gay/Shaq era in Chicago?
Chicks Dig The Long Ball.
Rudy Gay definitely seems like the most likely guy to get way overpaid this summer by a team that strikes out with all the real superstars. He’s still only 23 but he’s more or less been the same guy for three years now—and a 20 ppg swingman who doesn’t pass or play much defense isn’t someone I want to be blowing more than $10 million per season on.
by Frank Madden on Mar 15, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Addition by Subtraction
Personally Id much rather be in the Nets shoes, where we are a complete shambles on court, but when you look past that small fact its not all that bad………we get a new cashed up owner, a new stadium in a couple of years in the Atlantic Yards, fingers crossed a top two draft pick which means John Wall/Evans Turner………have some pretty decent young talent Brooke Lopez, Courtney Alexander, Terrence Williams, a boatload of cap space to at least make a major play for LBJ, have Devin Harris as a pretty decent trade piece, Im sure we could do something with Yi Jianlian, maybe next time we play the Clipps just leave him there Kim Hughes will be like maybe we got him in the Camby deal, Mike! Mike! are you there? Get a good coach in, that always helps…..suddenly we could be good, pretty good
and well if it all falls apart we werent that good to begin with anyway
Yeah, the Nets certainly have the building blocks to become relevant very quickly. Best case scenario they pull an OKC and parlay the young talent into wins a couple years from now, though it would be a big blow IMO if they don’t get Wall or Turner in June.
My gut is that they end up whiffing on the big name free agents—just too much competition with teams like Chicago, Miami, Knicks also in play. You can make arguments for why someone might want to go there, but being so terrible on the court and not having a coach is a tough position to be in.
by Frank Madden on Mar 15, 2010 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
definitely missing out on the top two draft picks would be a real dagger after the season they are going through!!
I suppose things will be alot clearer when the new owner is in place, and we start to see some moves in terms of whether he keeps Rod Thorn as GM, and who they get to coach them….
it may not be a shiny and bright lights like signing a big free agent, but going the OKC city route might be the best option, you figure there got a good start with some of the young talent they have, of course if this experience doesnt scar them for the next 10 years!
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