Post-Lottery Mocks: Hayward, George, James, Henry and Udoh getting buzz at #15
We knew even before Tuesday's lottery where the Bucks would be picking--kind of a weird feeling, right? But that's not to say there isn't some interesting fallout from Washington and Philly leaping past the Nets to snag the first and second picks, respectively. On the down side, the two best (or perhaps more accurately, assumed best) players in the draft will be residing in the East, which is never a good thing from a Bucks' perspective. It may not have a huge impact next year, but long term it's always preferable to see the best youngsters headed out West. Then again, it could be worse of course--we could be Nets or Wolves fans who had their dreams of John Wall and Evan Turner dashed by those pesky ping-pong balls.
The lottery outcome also raises questions about how the draft order might impact the availability of certain high profile players such as Kevin Love and Andre Iguodala. The Timberwolves would love to add a do-it-all wing like Turner to their triangle offense, but instead it looks like they'll likely have to "settle" for a stud big man like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins--whoever is left after the Nets pick (sorry, Yi Jianlian). Favors or Cousins ending up in Minneapolis would make Kevin Love or Al Jefferson expendable, with the cheaper Love being the much easier guy to trade at this point. We've already had some talk about a Love trade in the fanposts, and I'm on record as being a big fan of his game. Admittedly I'd rather have a better athlete to pair with Bogut, but Love's ridiculous rebounding ability, off-the-charts basketball IQ, and rookie contract would make any roster look a lot better. And as much as I like Ersan Ilyasova, I'd certainly be willing to use him as trade bait to help facilitate some kind of Love deal.
Meanwhile, Philly won't be complaining about jumping up to the second pick, but they already have Andre Iguodala at the 2 and may not view Turner as the ideal complement. So do Iggy and his big contract become even more available? And if so, are the Bucks willing to bet the farm on Iggy and the remaining four years and $56 million left on his contract? I don't see Iguodala turning the Bucks into title contenders, but I also don't have a real plan for getting a legit superstar, either. I'll say this: there would be much worse ways to use the Bucks' cap flexibility going forward.
Trade speculation aside, the more pressing issue is what the Bucks will do with the #15 pick in the first round, assuming they keep it. Superelkman put together a nice synopsis of the Bucks' first round big man options in the fanposts, so check that out if you haven't already. And with the lottery order settled, the mock drafts are now beginning in earnest. Here are the latest guesses as to what the Bucks will be doing on June 24:
I hesitate to put Hayward this low, knowing that the Chicago draft combine is coming up and that he's going to measure better athletically than people think. Teams as high up as the Wizards, Clippers and Pacers are looking at him closely. But I doubt he'll slip past the Bucks, who can use Hayward at both the 2 and the 3. He needs to gain some strength, but there's really nothing else not to love about his game.
Not surprising to hear Hayward being linked with the Bucks, as their admiration of him seems to be either a poorly kept secret or elaborate smokescreen. I also think it's interesting Ford mentions him as possibly getting minutes at the two, despite some previous scouting reports questioning his lateral quickness even at the 3. For everyone's sake I hope he's more athletic than he's getting credit for.
An aggressive and versatile defender, he'll fit into the program Scott Skiles is building in Milwaukee. He rebounds and finishes strongly in traffic, and Brandon Jennings makes it possible for the Bucks to live with James' lack of passing skills.
James is an old man by draft standards--a senior in college!--so he's probably been scouted to death at this point, especially given he went to the pre-draft combine a year ago (6'7.5" in shoes, 7'1" wingspan, 224 lbs, 37" vertical). He ended up going back to Texas and continuing to work on his jump shot, but he was still mostly a college PF, and a damn productive one at that (18/10 on healthy .501/.383/.674 shooting). Maybe I'm just paranoid about tweeners because of the Joe Alexander experience, but my basic rule from here on out is that if a guy is almost 23 years old and you still don't know if he can guard the 3 or 4, then you probably shouldn't use a mid-first round pick on him. I won't pretend to know James' game well enough to make a definitive call on that either way, but positional ambiguity aside there's a lot to like about him. Chad Ford saw him last week and writes his stock could be rising:
But James has been gaining momentum all year. NBA teams loved his toughness, motor and athleticism. But they questioned what position he would play in the NBA. James has worked hard on his perimeter skills and this year became a much more convincing small forward.
While James isn't going to show the skill of a player like [Paul] George in this type of setting, what he does show is plenty of fire. I think it's going to be a terrific selling point for him in the draft. He could rise in a way similar to what Tyler Hansbrough did in last year's draft. You can't teach toughness, motor and NBA readiness. With so many question marks in this draft, James is one of the few guys who you know, right out of the gate, what you are and aren't getting. By June, he could end up in the late lottery.
Sporting News: Paul George
Sean Deveney's mock has the Bucks taking Fresno State wing Paul George, which also wouldn't be too surprising given the Bucks just worked him out on Monday. While he didn't put up monster numbers in his two years in the WAC, everyone seems to agree that George has a nice mix of shooting, athleticism, and defensive potential, which in the middle of the first round is pretty damn appealing.
George’s stock is on the rise. He is long and athletic, he can shoot from deep and he plays defense. He’s a good fit with the Bucks.
Ridiculous Upside: James Anderson
The Bucks might be losing John Salmons, but that won't be such a blow if they're able to draft Anderson, one of the best scorers in college last season.
The Bucks nearly won a lottery pick in that John Salmons trade, with the Bulls just barely making the postseason. As it turns out, the Bucks ended up getting No. 15 in exchange for No. 17 (in addition to turning expiring contracts into Salmons, who fueled a solid run). Salmons, however, could be moving on as a free agent. With Michael Redd seeing his end of (basketball) days, potentially, Milwaukee needs to add a perimeter scorer. Hawyard sure can score.
Lastly, if you're wondering about the other draft sites' projections, DX still has the Bucks taking Xavier Henry and NBADraft.net has Baylor big man Ekpe Udoh falling into their laps.
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Iguodala
I like the sound of Iggy coming to Milwaukee but what would we have to give up for him. You would again say Illyasova would be a good starting point but what else?
FEAR THE DEER!!! but not til next year =(
by russelTHEmuscle on May 20, 2010 12:19 AM CDT reply actions
Redd
Expiring’s will do the trick, depending on what happens with the draft and if Doug Collins thinks he can make Turner and Iggy co-exist or not. If he thinks they can’t, the team can buy there time with a slight blow up in order to add cap space (for a potential stud SF or PG in 2011) and swing a deal for Redd and Gadz. Hopefully the Bucks will be lucky enough to be in the same place with Redd and Gadz as Houston was last year with T-Mac. If so, the Bucks are even better off than Houston as it is, so adding Iggy and possibly a top-5 protected first rounder from Philly (even if it means swapping firsts) would be a huge get for the Bucks. I feel like there could have been some conversations at this year’s deadline (I’m just not sure that Meeks trade came out of nowhere, without some small mention of Iggy), and that can only help GM negotiations this year. Honestly, I still feel a guy like Iggy, plus a solid first round rotation add, both this year and next, is enough to get the Bucks over the top. With a starting 5 of Jennings/Iggy/1st Round SF/1st Round PF/Bogut, plus Delfino, Prince, Sova, and a trade/signing of a 6th man like PG, I don’t see how this team wouldn’t have the tools to compete. They are still young after all, having a PG and C (arguably the two most important positions in the game) who haven’t even come close to reaching their ceiling yet, and adding Iggy to the backcourt (a guy who has ave. 19/6/6/2 over the last 4 years as a starter) with Jennings seems like just the compliment he needs.
It also doesn’t hurt that Iggy seems like he would buy into Skiles concept (as long as the W’s keep piling up) of defense and team first basketball, helping file Salmons eventual void with a younger, more athletic table setter who can also play lock-down defense. If we add Iggy and George (or another athletic front court piece), I think we have a legit chance at a 3 seed next year, even if we lose Salmons. If we can add another athletic piece the following season, or parlay our cap space and 1st rounder for a PF that some team desperately wants to move before the draft (like the C’s adding Ray draft night), then I say we pull the trigger and we’re suddenly one of the top teams in the east, with the potential to easily remain on course for the foreseeable future.
It seems like Hammonds and Skiles are trying to build a Sloan in Utah type foundation here in Milwaukee, adding a piece like Iggy (not flashy, but gets the job done night in and night at an exact position of greatest need) seems like it could be just what these Bucks need.
the 76ers getting the 2nd pick has really thrown up some possibilities
the one thing though is that Stefanski has kept his job as the GM……so far…….and he is the one that assembled most of this team right and so far he has been basically saying is our talent levels dont reflect the teams results ie its all Eddie Jordans fault
so it is in the air whether he is ready to get rid of Iggy just yet, also I cant see any team taking the risk of Brand’s contract on when the reward seems to be very little, and probably Dalembert for that matter……..If they were in rebuilding/break up mode you would figure Redd’s contract would be appealing just dont think Stefanski see’s it that way or at least cant sell it that way to management if he wants to keep his job
i guess what they decide to do with the pick could shape the draft and trading scenario, the smartest move would probably be take Turner or Favors, which means you can then look at trying to move some of those big contracts, a back court of Holiday & Favors seems a good start……..though wanting to hire Collins as a coach tells me i dont know what they are thinking ;)
Redd for Iggy
I could see that working logicstically. Both teams have something that the other team desires.
Philly has Iggy and 2nd pick, one of them will be moved at least by the trade deadline in 2011. MN will probably make a push for 2nd pick for 4th pick and some extras so Philly can get a more fitting piece like Favors or Cousins. That $18-$20mil of Redd’s contract could sign them almost an entire bench or Philly being a bigger market that MKE could attract them a bigger FA if so desired.
I heard an Interview with David Kahn yesterday on Dan Patrick
he made it seem like they would be aggressively looking to move up in the draft. I’m sure they will get showered with a stupid good deal fro Kahn and the wolves. Kahn is an idiot.
I would think that Philly would rather take Turner than move back to get cousins or favors, they have a glutton on young, capable bigs.
Give Philly the right coach and they could have been something last year.
That said, I would love the true AI on the Bucks. That would be exciting as hell. I don’t mind the big contrac with the way Hammonds can pick up pieces for small deals, Hammond is a god, and doe3s mental gymnastics around D Kahn
Go Beer, I mean Bucks
by Take Back Our Bucks on May 20, 2010 1:19 PM CDT reply actions
And they still haven't updated the Buck's logo....
That takes away all credibility from them! Just kidding.
I wouldn’t mind them picking George, he seems decent enough.
"Why are you behaving like such an American?"
--David Stern
by Jacob Grinyer on May 20, 2010 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
No Babbit
One Mock has the Bucks taking Luke Babbit …NOOOOOOOOOO …..
What's so bad about Babbitt?
"Why are you behaving like such an American?"
--David Stern
by Jacob Grinyer on May 20, 2010 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
A few things ...
1) white 2) no lateral quickness 3) white
Ah.
"Why are you behaving like such an American?"
--David Stern
by Jacob Grinyer on May 20, 2010 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions
"Tweener" is probably the main criticism
Aside from pigmentation :)
Sounds like he’s projected at SF, but I also see conflicting measurements on him. If he’s 6’9" / 225 and not 6’7" / 215 then he can probably play some PF too. But if he’s too slow for SFs and took weak for PFs you’ve got a problem either way.
by Frank Madden on May 20, 2010 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
In other words..
They’re not racist and/or Donald Sterling.
"Why are you behaving like such an American?"
--David Stern
by Jacob Grinyer on May 20, 2010 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I just want an athlete
Hayward is fairly athletic, but I would prefer someone like Paul George because he excels in one area – shooting and can be projected to do better in other areas.
Pigmentation
Lol, it is apparent that the Bucks do have the most light pigmented players in the NBA. They also get excited about getting more of them…Joe Alexander not Gordon Hayward. I’ve even heard Harangody. I have no preference, but it does stand out. I want them to actually try and add a three point specialist like Kyle Korver to the bench. Gordon Hayward might fill that void.
I’d prefer Paul George tho.
You don't draft "specialists" in the first round
If they can get a vet like Korver to fill that void, yes. But at #15, they’re looking for a full-time contributer, I would think.
Somewhat Agree
I think they should take Paul George who should be able to be a full-time contributer not Hayward, but I wouldn’t be had if they took Hayward either. As long as they take Tiny Gallon, Jerome James, or Charles Garcia in the 2nd round I’m happy. Tiny Gallon said he’d love to play with Brandon Jennings again yesterday during workouts. I love it!
Hayward is so much more athletic than what they are saying
It’s become kind of a joke. Chasing down Randy Culpepper for an insane block was a good way to show it. His defensive struggles have been greatly exaggerated. At 15 he would be the steal of the draft.
Dr. Zoidberg: That's where I'm meeting Uncle Zoid for lunch to discuss my Hollywood dream. The next time you see me, don't be surprised if I've eaten.
Chad Ford said he expected Hayward to surprise people with his athletic testing at the combine, so I’m curious to see how he stacks up.
by Frank Madden on May 22, 2010 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Trading up?
What are the odds that the bucks use 1 of those second round picks and move up a little bit? Not sure if 37 has any value but if you put it with 15 I don’t really think it could move you up that far but might be worth it.
FEAR THE DEER!!! but not til next year =(
by russelTHEmuscle on May 20, 2010 9:50 PM CDT reply actions
We would probably have to give up one of our key players though....
And at this point, especially with a fairly deep draft, I don’t think it’s worth it.
"Why are you behaving like such an American?"
--David Stern
by Jacob Grinyer on May 20, 2010 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah
after thinking about it the bucks can get a quality player at 15
FEAR THE DEER!!! but not til next year =(
by russelTHEmuscle on May 20, 2010 11:59 PM CDT reply actions
luis scola is our man
we should try to sign the restricted free agent luis scola from houston. houston says they’ll pay whatever to keep him, but he may be just the piece we need. a starting line-up of bj3, salmons, delfino, scola and bogut would be pretty formidible, especially with ridnour, ersan and luc richard as the first three off the bench. the bucks could offer scola at least the mid level exception if not more. also, he and delfino have won a gold medal together so they already have chemistry. we need to fill in the four spot, and scola could be our guy without having to trade either of our great prospects in ersan and luc richard.
I like Scola...
But we’ll only have the MLE to play with and I can’t imagine that would be enough to get him, especially with all the cap space other teams have this summer.
by Frank Madden on May 22, 2010 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
On the subject of Hayward...
The Pacers might have Hammond & friends beat:
http://www.indystar.com/article/20100521/SPORTS04/5210331/1068/SPORTS06/Butler-s-Hayward-would-like-to-play-for-Pacers
Does anyone NOT think that the Pacers would draft a hometown guy like him even at 10th?
Quote from NBAdraft.net: “Larry Bird had his eyes on Hayward the minute he walked through the door and never took them off him.”
"Why are you behaving like such an American?"
--David Stern
Yuck
Hayward deserves a better organization with better players than the Pacers.
"Every time something good happens to me you say it's some kind of madness. Or I'm drunk. Or I ate too much candy."
-Phillip J. Fry
Its probably a Tebow like fascination
that Jacksonville had, I am hoping the take him. Lets someone of substantial quality slip to us at 15
Go Beer, I mean Bucks
by Take Back Our Bucks on May 21, 2010 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Larry Bird is whitewashing the Pacers
Tyler Hansbrough, Mike Dunleavy, Troy Murphy, Jeff Foster, Travis Diener, Josh McRoberts. Hayward would just be another.
"Every time something good happens to me you say it's some kind of madness. Or I'm drunk. Or I ate too much candy."
-Phillip J. Fry
Pretty funny
And it’d be interesting to see Hayward playing with Dunleavy, the guy he’s most often compared to…
by Frank Madden on May 22, 2010 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Jim O'Brien would find a way to kill Hayward's career
“Gordon, let’s try not to play defense and if you get the ball behind the 3 point line, shoot. Don’t think twice about it.”
"Every time something good happens to me you say it's some kind of madness. Or I'm drunk. Or I ate too much candy."
-Phillip J. Fry
Why do people think that Hayward is unathletic? Because he is white? Did you guys even watch college basketball this year? Hayward could get to wherever he wanted, he drove the lane when he wanted, and even when premiere talent teams (like Duke) threw their best defensive schemes at him, he found ways to contribute.
If there is anything Joe Alexander taught us, it is that timed speed, measurable strength, and insane jumping ability do not always translate on to the court (in game situations). Look at Steve Nash. Out of starting NBA guards, he would probably finish last in any race, jumping, or weight lifting contest. But his vision, ball handling, and shooting trump the “athleticism” category and thats why he is a two time MVP.
Look, there are obviously stud athletes in the NBA (Josh Smith, LeBron James, etc) and when you have a chance at guys like that of course you take it. But there is another type too, the guys that are just good players (Paul Pierce, Caron Butler, etc). These guys are not great athletes who dominate with “athleticism”… they impact games with versatility.
I got no guarentees that my opinion of Hayward is better than any of yours. But if you actually watch the kid in games and drills… he is nothing like the plodding jump shooter that people are lableing him as.
by REO Sheedwagon on May 22, 2010 11:46 AM CDT reply actions
Hayward Flaw
Did you watch Joe Alexander’s last year in college? It was great and his combine was even better. Alexander could scored like crazy at West VA.
Hayward scored against second tier talent most of his career (outside of the tournament) and played along with second tier teammates leaving him to be the best player on the court every night he stepped on the court since his Frosh season. The step from college to the NBA is enormous. He’s going to go from being the best player on the court to the worst player on the court and its the things that have potential in his game that will make him successful. Compared to other starting SG and SF already in the NBA, he is unathletic. His atheticism concerns are more directed to the defensive end, whereas on the offensive end craftiness can get the job done as John Salmons and Michael Redd have shown us. His shooting, IQ, and determination are his strengths. His size, athleticism, and experience are his weaknesses.
With that said, I still think he may be a good selection for the Bucks as a role player. If they re-sign Salmons, Hayward could be a nice complementary SF. If they don’t re-sign Salmons, I’d rather see them draft a guy with more SG talents and skills on the D and O ends.
by FearTheDeer on May 22, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
It is silly to compare Joe Alexander and Hayward.
They are nothing alike, they have nothing in common (except being white small forwards). They represent totally opposite ends of the prospect spectrum.
Joe was a workout warrior, a great measurables guy, a project, an athlete, a ridiculous upside guy. But he couldn’t shoot, pass, anticipate, be in the right spot, etc. His career at WV was totally average in every respect until he threw down some monster dunks in the conference tourney and had a decent game or two in the NCAA tourney. In retrospect, he didn’t have any one skill that translated as NBA ready. Skiles and Hammond thought that in time, his “love for the game” and great athleticism would overcompensate for his lack of skill and experience. They made a terrible mistake. Joe proved to be all talk in the work, learn, and develop categories.
Gordon is a totally opposite end of the spectrum. He has NBA ready skills (he can shoot, think, pass, and dribble at NBA levels right now). And his size and athleticism (two things he is getting criticized for) are well within the norm for NBA small forwards. It is also false to say that he only beat up on lesser competition. He was the featured (and best) player on a team that went to the NCAA title game. And even better he was considered by many to be the best player in last summer’s under19 US international team. Which is a little more prestigious than the Horizon League.
Until someone can tangibly show how Hayward is a below average athlete or below average team defender, I just don’t understand what’s not to like about the kid.
And Bucks fans more than anyone should appreciate that a prospect that is dedicated, coachable, and skilled can outplay opponents that are bigger, faster, and jump higher. Just look at Bogut. The only knock on him was that he wasn’t an elite athlete, and he has developed in to a fantastic player on both ends.
I realize this doesn’t mean that Hayward will be great, but at #15 no sure thing exists.
Well said
He should be decent in the NBA because of his scoring ability. However I don’t think he will be a very good defender in the NBA and if this is the case it makes it useless for the bucks to draft him.
FEAR THE DEER!!! but not til next year =(
by russelTHEmuscle on May 22, 2010 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
See
I think he will be a good defender. He’s been underrated athletically, and he was probably the 3rd best defensive starter for Butler which is very good. He’s an all-around solid player.
"Every time something good happens to me you say it's some kind of madness. Or I'm drunk. Or I ate too much candy."
-Phillip J. Fry
I wouldn't be surprised if the bucks took him.
And I wouldn’t mind at all. In fact, I think he could be something. I’d take a hard working player with great IQ over a talented one that didn’t try to live up to his potential any day.
Okay, maybe that’s not completely true, but you get the point.
"Why are you behaving like such an American?"
--David Stern
by Jacob Grinyer on May 22, 2010 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions
not that I have anything against the guy, I think he can probably an effective player off the bench in a Chase Budinger kinda way, especially if he can find his shooting stroke………..can he shoot well enough to be a Kyle Korver type of guy?
defensively wise I wouldnt be that worried, how many teams are really really into teaching and playing effective team defense, a handful? He played enough of the 4 in college to show he is determined & can hustle enough to defend enough even at the 3 I figure……………..
REO Speedwagon: I agree
You do have to watch Hayward play. What worries me is his projectibility. Is he as good as he is going to get? People say he needs to bulk up, they always say that about young, thinner guys. But A) How many of them do? and B) If they do, deos it come with a cost?
I would not begrudge the Bucks for picking him, and I do not put him in the class of plodding white players. I would still take Paul George over him, but both might be climbing the draft board. Heck, maybe Greg Monroe slips to us.
watching him play
watching him play college basketball doesnt really show you that much about how he will transition to the NBA game. Especially since most of his games that were not the NCAA tournament were in the Horizon League which is a below average conference for NBA talent. How many projected first rounders are coming out of the horizon league or for that matter how many are in the NBA.
FEAR THE DEER!!! but not til next year =(
by russelTHEmuscle on May 23, 2010 9:03 AM CDT reply actions
Is it really that important?
He played well against Xavier, Ohio State, and in the tournament. Those teams have been sending players to the pros. It didn’t hurt Stephen Curry to be playing in the Big South. I don’t think level of competition is a big deal.
"Every time something good happens to me you say it's some kind of madness. Or I'm drunk. Or I ate too much candy."
-Phillip J. Fry
Yup.
I don’’t think we need to take that into too much consideration. Good point about Curry. And what about George Hill?
"Why are you behaving like such an American?"
--David Stern
by Jacob Grinyer on May 24, 2010 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions
True, but he played well in the tournament
I don’t think the competition in the Horizon will make a difference with this kid. he playd well enough against the top schools, and Butler beat Evan Turner’s Ohio State team during the regular season.

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