Notes: Bogut's cast off, Patterson's polish, Whiteside's immaturity, and Tony Allen a target?
Twitter: Bogut's cast off
Earlier today the big fella reported another small milestone in his recovery:
Just got my cast off. Was the best feeling....until i figured out my fingers and wrist are stiffer than a board....not a good feeling!
Woelfel: Bucks keeping busy in Chicago
Gery Woelfel reports on some of the work the Bucks were doing at the combine. Read the whole thing, but here's the most important part for all of us trying to decipher the Bucks' draft plans:
The Bucks are doing their due diligence and have interviewed a passel of draft prospects, among them Virgina guard Sylven Landesberg, Xavier shooting guard Jordan Crawford, Connecticut forward Stanley Robinson and New Mexico shooting guard Darington Hobson, Oklahoma State shooting guard James Anderson and Hayward.The Bucks also met with Paul George, a shooting guard-small forward from Fresno State. It was the second meeting with George, the other being last week during a workout in Milwaukee.
Crawford and Landesberg are both possible second rounders with cocky reputations, so it's good to see the Bucks trying to figure things out for themselves. Woelfel also did a segment at WSSP on Friday which you can listen to here.
JS: Tony Allen a free agent target?
Catching up on some news from last week, the JS alluded to the possibility of free agent-to-be Tony Allen signing with the Bucks in part because of his younger brother Ryan's transfer to UWM.
"Another thing I thought about (in choosing UWM) was that it’s my brother’s free-agent year and Milwaukee may be in the running for him signing there," said Ryan Allen.Asked about the possibility of them both playing basketball in Milwaukee next season, Ryan said, "That would be fun."
I really hadn't thought much about Allen being on the Bucks' radar and I'm still not sure he's an obvious target given a) the Bucks' likely needs and b) the curious sourcing of the rumor. Make no mistake, Allen's a plus defender and good for the occasional highlight reel dunk, but he's also a mediocre-shooting turnover machine who's ideally suited to coming off the bench. So even if the Bucks lose John Salmons, is Allen really the guy to target with the Bucks' limited off-season budget? While I'm sure Skiles would appreciate his effort and abilities as a stopper, I'd rather focus on adding a shooter/scorer at this point.
Bucks Beat: Kentucky's Patterson in talks with Bucks at No. 15
Paul Imig reports from Chicago on Kentucky's Patrick Patterson, who seems to be emerging as one our favorites in the comment section as well:
Patterson said he really got a great vibe from the five members of the Bucks organization who interviewed him, including general manager John Hammond and head coach Scott Skiles."I had a great impression, especially from the head coach," Patterson said. "He was definitely an energetic person. He was asking a lot of questions. I could tell he’s a guy who definitely cares about his players and his organization."
A lot can happen in the next month, but I'd be a bit surprised if he's still available at 15--as we discussed last weekend, he measured well in Chicago and he's going to do very well in interviews, so unless he totally blows his workouts I have to think some lottery team will nab him. Not that I wouldn't mind being wrong...
Ford: Whiteside's maturity continues to raise question marks
Chad Ford's draft reporting (or rumor-mongering, if you prefer) is always a must read this time of year, and today he tackled among other things the questions around Hassan Whiteside's attitude. Here's a sample:
A number of teams reported to me that their interviews with Whiteside were rocky. I can understand why. In the 15 minutes or so I spent with him one-on-one he projected a confidence that bordered on naïve arrogance. He compared himself to everyone from Dwight Howard to Hakeem Olajuwon (with whom he spent a week training), complained about where I had him on my mock draft (No. 14 to the Rockets) and was insulted that our scouting report didn't have more on his 3-point shooting ability.Whiteside clearly believes he has the stuff to be great ... but my interview with him was eerily similar to the one I had with Tyrus Thomas a few years ago. Thomas tried to convince me he was a perimeter player, complained he wasn't ranked No. 1 and generally seemed clueless about the rest of the players in the draft.
DX's scouting reports highlighted this kind of thing months ago, and you can see it in some of the interviews that came out of Chicago as well. I realize it's unfair to expect college-aged basketball players to be brilliant orators, and at the end of the day these guys are paid to play, not give interviews. But it's still interesting and worrying how many guys struggle to come off like something other than a knucklehead when there's so much riding on it. Would it really kill guys like Whiteside or DeMarcus Cousins to be a little more polite, humble and vaguely self-aware?
Whiteside mentioned he had already spoken to the Bucks in one of Jim Paschke's video reports, so it's good to see the Bucks are going to kick the tires and make up their own minds. As we've seen with Brandon Jennings, there's often a fine line between confidence and the "naive arrogance" Ford mentioned, but Jennings is also a charismatic, unselfish guy who you can tell understands the game and is willing to do anything to get better. Based on the interviews I've seen and the scouting reports I've read, I'm not sure how many of those things seem to apply to Whiteside, and aside from shot-blocking he wasn't that productive as a 20-year old freshman playing in the MAC. At some point his physical tools just become too hard to ignore, but given what we know about the Bucks and what we think we know about Whiteside, I kind of doubt Hammond and Skiles will be the ones rolling the dice on him June 24. If he's not as big of an idiot as Ford makes him out to be then he's probably gone before the Bucks pick, but if the attitude and IQ questions persist I'd be surprised if the Bucks were the first team willing to make the gamble.
ESPN: Gottlieb's top 30
I'm not sure Doug Gottlieb's scouting is exceptionally accurate--example: he had both Tyreke Evans and Stephen Curry outside the top ten a year ago--but I appreciate the fact that he's seen all the college players a bunch and is willing to go against conventional draft wisdom. For instance, this year he has Evan Turner fourth (behind Greg Monroe) and DeMarcus Cousins all the way down at #10, behind Luke Babbitt among others. Of the guys we've been discussing for the Bucks, Gottlieb ranks Udoh 6th, Hayward 9th, Sanders 13th, Anderson 14th, Henry 15th, Whiteside 16th, Patterson 17th, James 21st, and George 22nd.
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Okay.
When I first heard about Whiteside’s maturity problems, my first thought was “how bad can he be?” ….Based on what Ford said, apparently pretty bad. Okay, cross him off the list. I feel bad for the team that picks him. (Just watch, he’s gonna turn in to a superstar and I’ll feel like an idiot)
Tony Allen would be a great addition off the bench, but I don’t know how much flexibility the Bucks have in the Financial department for that. And good to hear about Bogut. Hope his fingers get better soon.
"Why are you behaving like such an American?"
--David Stern
Whiteside is a nitt-wit
he showed up for measurements in flip-flops and didn’t bring his shoes to be measured in. The guy is a freak, but I doubt he’d get off the bench.
Go Beer, I mean Bucks
by Take Back Our Bucks on May 25, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Can you say, "Tyrus Thomas"?
"Why are you behaving like such an American?"
--David Stern
by Jacob Grinyer on May 31, 2010 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions
sign and trade
was just surfing the web to see some Chris Bosh sign and trade Ideas and I clicked on a site with this idea
If we know that bosh won’t be returning, is it possible we can send a package of jose,bosh and someone else to the bucks for jennings, bogut.
we would get a legit Center, keep bargs at the pf and have jennings run point guard(it doesn’t hurt that derozan and him are pretty good friends).
I also earlier this week saw a trade rumor(totally made up) Lamar Odom for Andrew Bogut.
This stuff makes me laugh considering these are retarded ideas and why would people even begin to think Bogut and Jennings are on the trade block. Just thought I should share this with you guys. I got a good laugh out of it and figured you would too.
FEAR THE DEER!!! but not til next year =(
by russelTHEmuscle on May 25, 2010 12:41 AM CDT reply actions
russelTHEmuscle
Absurd ideas indeed. Thanks for the laugh.
Boguts popularity
It’s quite ironic to see how most (in the NBA) had labelled Bogut as a failure to live up to his number 1 pick this time last year, and now more so amusing one year later of how many internet ‘what if’ trade proposals are popping up that have Bogut hypothetically landed on their team. He’s gone from the ugly duckling that nobody wanted, now everyone wants a piece of Bogues. Funny how tides can change.
and on a side note
that fact that Bogut and Jennings are gaining rep, does this then mean it can create some positive spin on potential big free agent signings, and wipe some of the astigmatism away of being a so called small market team??
thats a very valid point
it should make an impact when you can point to being able to play with one of the better young point guard/center combo’s……..seems to be a major selling point of the Bulls this off season with Rose/Noah not that im comparing but its a positive
its something that hopefully we can build on I know Gooden isnt a major coup but towards the end of the season when the Bucks had that media and buzz going he was saying yeah id like to come to bucks and sign a deal they look good……..im not advocating signing Drew Gooden mind you but that’s a good sign that free agents view in that light especially in a small market…….as long as you dont sign them to silly deals ;)
I think it does change the dynamic
Milwaukee might never be a premier destination, but if you have money, talent, and a good organization you will be able to sign guys. Look at Detroit—nobody ever talked about how terrible that city was while they were winning games.
by Frank Madden on May 25, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it was Flip Saunders who called Bogut the best offensive big man in the East
it was interesting at the time but for scoring versatility and his passing its hard to disagree when Bogut puts Emo Bo away……watching Dwight Howard against the C’s and I know the C’s half court defense has been outstanding this playoffs, but Howards offense relies so much on athleticism and being the guy who can catch and finish above the rim so well, on the block there isnt much fluidity in his back to the basket moves
If Bogut can work and hitting the 15ft jumper a little bit and continue to improve his free throw shooting his all round package is pretty damn nice to have
Drew Gooden
I personally wouldnt mind having Drew Gooden. I mean sure hes not the best forward in the game but he is definitly serviceable and who knows maybe him and bogut would be unstoppable in the post.
FEAR THE DEER!!! but not til next year =(
by russelTHEmuscle on May 25, 2010 10:36 AM CDT reply actions
I really like the fact that he can play both big spots…he’s not a real center but you can get away with him playing there against a lot of lineups, and at the 4 he’d provide a bigger body to bang with post PFs.
I’d be very happy to sign him to a one or two year deal for $3 million per.
by Frank Madden on May 25, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah I have my reservations about Gooden..........
but in Frank’s scenario over a two year short term for that deal I see that as a viable option especially after Hammonds pretty much came out and said we are still in budget mode……
it seems like a move that you could make much like Warrick a short term value contract that can help you out and not restrict you later
Gooden?
Why has Gooden jumped around so much? That concerns me a bit.
yes
I always had a suspicion after he was on that Cavs team that made the finals but they werent exactly jumping around to keep him around so that was always a red flag and he never found a place in San Antonio so
and he has a rep as not being the most astute guy when it comes to following plays and stuff like that
but numbers wise he always been reasonably productive and he can bang a bit and do some dirty work…..if we go with wing guy at pick 15 seems like a viable option that Hammonds will look at
Agreed about the pick
If we go with a wing at #15 then I’d expect they make Gooden a priority in free agency. I imagine they might roll the dice on a big in the second round as well, but odds are it won’t be somebody we can count on in the short term.
by Frank Madden on May 25, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Why has John Slamons jumped around so much?
Go Beer, I mean Bucks
by Take Back Our Bucks on May 25, 2010 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Because Drew Gooden is AWFUL
Don’t get him.
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
hmm with Gooden, Blake, Outlaw all coming off the books.....
it seems like im eyeing all these guys as bargain free agent signings!!! I dont what that says
Blake would be a nice fallback for Ridnour, but something tells me he wouldn’t be thrilled about coming back to Milwaukee after the way his last stint here went.
Outlaw I’m not so sure about. He’s a bit of a chucker, but we could do much worse as far as 6th men go.
by Frank Madden on May 25, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the Bucks should take a look at these FAs this summer...
Josh Childress, Ray Allen, Anthony Morrow, Wes Matthews, Grant Hill, Kyle Korver, David Lee, Drew Gooden, Shaun Livingston, Steve Blake, and Eddie House
AND…Salmons, Ridnour, Thomas, and Ivey from their own squad.
Tony Allen is a solid back-up SG, but I think playing in Boston is helping his career similar to James Posey and Leon Powe. I’d far rather see them sign a guy to start at SG and draft a potential-filled rookie. The other option is to not sign a starting SG, draft a potential-filled starting SG like George, Henry, or Bradley and bring a guy like Tony Allen off the bench? Considering Tony Allen’s size, I’m just not sold tho, that Tony Allen will offer things that Charlie Bell doesn’t offer on the Bucks and has created an illusion in Boston.
Not sure about those FA's
MLE for Childress maybe. The others don’t thrill me.
All depends..
First and foremost, I only considered guys who I think will be willing to come to Milwaukee via Free Agency. Realistically, thats pretty much very humbled players like Grant Hill, guys looking for opportunity to prove themselves like Livingston, locally grown talent like Matthews, guys Milwaukee will offer a significantly higher paycheck to like unknown, or WI ethnically majority star players like David Lee.
Other Reasoning:
-Childress: experience, size, fills need at starting SG. Maybe too expensive
-Allen: experience, proven scoring and shooting, fills need at starting SG. Aging, maybe too expensive
-Morrow: sharp-shooting, young, solid back-up SG. Maybe too expensvie to pull from Warriors.
-Matthews: easily a local fan fav, solid SG back-up, young. Maybe too expensvie to pull from Utah
-Hill: intelligent, experience, leadership, character, consistency, fills a need as a starting SF. Reasonably priced.
-Korver: 3PT sharp shooter, back-up SF, Maybe too expensive.
-Lee: young enough to add to the core, size, jump shoot, post moves, scoring, rebounding, may work out better defensively at PF and with Bogut. Maybe too expensive,
-Gooden: size, better scoring PF than on current roster, affordable, defensively may match well next to Bogut. Poor IQ.
Livingston: never had the chance to develop and could be a break out player if he stays healthy, high IQ, size 6’7" PG, very affordable. No negatives as a 3rd option.
Blake: solid back-up PG, affordable.
Eddie House: 3PT shooting, solid back-up PG, affordable.
“First and foremost, I only considered guys who I think will be willing to come to Milwaukee via Free Agency. "
Man, the Doug Melvin approach is a big reason small market teams tend to fail. We’ve got to be bold. Likewise we have to be realistic. Bogut and Redd are coming off major injuries and this is Skiles third year. I want next year to shock me too.
by MadTown Hoops on May 27, 2010 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I wouldnt overlook Travis Outlaw as a budget option....relatively speaking
he has good size, can score at a decent clip, has 3pt range, can play the 2 or 3, apart from last season has shot it reasonably well
defensively he isnt any great shakes but he has the ability and in the Bucks system he would be reasonable ….or else he wouldnt play :)
I like Childress’s skillset, size, team first attitude but to get him back will be expensive from what I understand….Outlaw was getting around $3.5 million and he didnt have a great year after coming back from injury so he wouldnt be that expensive
I am not sure why everyone thinks it is a foregone conclusion that we will get Josh Childress. I know that the Bucks like him, but so do the Hawks and the whole reason Josh was in Greece these past few years is because the Hawks are not going to let him go to another NBA club for nothing. So we would have to work something out with the Hawks to land Josh, and who knows what that price would be.
I think Outlaw is primed to be a breakout player in the right environment, and Bucks fans would love him once they checked out his game a little bit more. I agree with the poster who said that Skiles would raise Outlaw’s defensive production… Outlaw certainly has great athleticism and defensive tools.
Am I the only one getting excited about Hammond’s two second rounders? I bet Brackins, the French kid (Seraphin), or Gallon will be there late in the first and we can swap those two second rounders to a team in cap trouble that doesn’t want to pay that guarenteed $…
His first second rounder was a gem...
So there’s hope. If Seraphin’s available, I’d take him in a heartbeat.
"Why are you behaving like such an American?"
--David Stern
by Jacob Grinyer on May 26, 2010 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Good Point about the 2nd Rounders...
I guess I’ve been so wrapped up in having the 15th pick, never stopped to consider that our man John might be able to pull another draft swindle with those 2 second rounders. Any ideas on which teams are tightening the budgets and may be looking to offload their First Rounder?
by Big Crazy Dave on May 27, 2010 3:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd keep the 2nd round picks...
Maintaining 3 picks would be nice in this big man heavy draft. The only way I’d like to see them move up, using their 2nd round picks, is after the guy they want is selected and try to trade those rights to Milwaukee for 1 of our 2nd round picks and cash or a 3rd stringer.
Wade on free agents talking among themselves
RealGM has a news piece on Dwayne Wade:
http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/66828/20100527/wade_questions_loyalty_of_bulls_organization/
They lead with his comments on the Bulls management. But I found the description on how the top free agents are “working” together interesting.
Top free agents in cahoots
This is indeed an interesting dynamic, with free agents talking to each other, feeling each other out. To me, this is way over-blown in the context of whether any combination of any of these players will spell huge success. I say that for this reason:
In all sports, most players who recommend another player, or put their noses in a GM’s decision-making process, FAIL miserably. Professional athletes are rarely competent in player personnel decisions, and Lebron James, Chris Bosh, D-Wade, Joe Johnson, etc. are no different. Heck, look at LeBron and the Cavs. He was happy about the Cavs moves in recent years, which means he himself probably believed it was enough to take them to the very top.
It wil be interesting to see how this plays out, but nobody should believe that adding 2+2 necessarilt equals 4.
Peace,
Tom
To Spartacus's point
… about whether a top free agent should consider Milwaukee, with the core of Jennings and Bogut. This relates to the point I made above, and that is, players are often short-sighted about the teams they want to go to or players they want to play with. I’m not sure who said it (could have been on this site), but having a solid 1 and 5 is HUGE, and harder to come by. You would think that a Chris Bosh would look at our roster and say ’Gosh, they could really use a player like me."
Part of the problem again, is reputation. It also creates a contradiction of motives. On the one hand, they want a desireable city, such as New York for some players. On the other hand, the player wants to win a chamionship. The two motives are always confused with each other, and this is proof that players are NOT personnel people.
Peace
Tom
Patterson will be a solid backup
Something between Dante Cunningham and a healthy Leon Powe.
Tony Allen is too injury-prone and once injured it takes him ages to get back into form. Too much inconsistency for my liking.
We don't want a backup at #15
Second round maybe
Well
A quality backup = modest starter.
But I agree, I’d rather not draft Patterson with the 15th, I think the Bucks already have players at that position able to offer a similar impact.
Patterson is interesting....
I thought he was a bit undersized and we have Prince & Ilyasova, but each guy has their strengths and weaknesses, and their both not a traditional prototypical power forward, If we can get a solid guy there it automatically improves our bench depth…and means we have a interesting combo with Bogut……
still the most pressing issue seems that wing position so for me its either Henry or George, which then means we have a pretty interesting back court, even if Salmons leaves….look for a FA power forward who can contribute with that MLE……..roll the dice in the 2nd round with a young big guy
work out the Ridnour/back up PG position and thats a fairly productive start to the summer
Patterson has a different skill-set than Ilyasova
But in terms of talent I think they’re basically on the same tier.
I think the Bucks need another big that is decisively better than Ilyasova and I just don’t see Patterson being that player.
I’m not in a hurry to add immediate contributors to this team, I don’t think the Bucks are that close to being contenders because they need another high-level talent in their line-up, so I’d rather take the chance on someone who could develop into a long term quality starter.

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