RU Mock: Bucks take Udoh
by Frank Madden on Jun 21, 2010 3:53 PM CDT
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PrintEarlier today we selected Baylor big man Ekpe Udoh on behalf of the Bucks in Ridiculous Upside's mock draft, ahead of Luke Babbitt, Gordon Hayward, James Anderson, Larry Sanders, and Hassan Whiteside (among others). Head over to RU for our full rationalization...here's a sample:
Udoh is admittedly a safe and fairly uninspiring pick, the kind of guy far more likely to become the workman-like fan favorite than the jersey-selling cornerstone. On paper he's about the least sexy pick you could imagine: 23 years old, doesn't score much, was garbage at Michigan before transferring to Baylor. And we haven't even mentioned his downright alarming physical resemblance to the inimitable Calvin Booth (red flag!). But he also feels like a reliable, solid value at #15, especially given most mock drafts have been pegging him in the 8-13 range for some time. Those mock drafts could also be horribly overrating him, and it's not lost on me that old players tend to be draft land mines. Still, I'll give the "professionals" the benefit of the doubt, especially considering a) how well Udoh fits the Bucks' roster and b) the front office's predisposition for players who can contribute immediately (Exhibits A and B: Joe Alexander and Jodie Meeks).
Overall, Udoh should provide much-needed depth at both big positions while bringing the sort of complementary skills that can help a veteran team looking to win now. Though his scoring efficiency was notably poor for a man of his size, Udoh also relied more on post and isolation chances than the draft's other bigs, showing off a solid face-up game and a surprising ability to create for teammates as well. Add in his potential as a defender and you have an excellent foil for Andrew Bogut and a nice complement to the Bucks' smallish power forward platoon of Luc Mbah a Moute and Ersan Ilyasova.
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Id be tempted to swing at Whiteside....
mainly because if he came through Id look like a genius…….pass myself off as a draft guru with insight sell my services to the Nyets for an ridiculous sum of money…..and retire from basketball consultancy 5 years later when the contract is done and im exposed as a semi sham
Makes a lot of sense for the Thunder or Wolves
With multiple first rounders you can definitely afford to take a flyer on someone like Whiteside.
by Frank Madden on Jun 21, 2010 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions
yup multiple picks in the first and Id be all over Whiteside...like a free pass
at least I figure he will be better value than Keith Closs
Btw Whiteside, Henry and Stephenson all in town today
Ryan Richards—the tall/skinny British guy who inexplicably ended up in Switzerland this year—was the other big man so it wasn’t exactly the best test for Whiteside, but at least they get to kick the tires on him up close. Interesting quote from McKinney:
"Whiteside is a good shot-blocker," said McKinney. "He’s still very raw. He’s pretty new to the game but is a guy that’s blocked a lot of shots. He rebounds. There’s a lot of room for improvement and growth in his game.
"There has been some speculation that he’ll go ahead of us. I can’t see that. We’ll look at him but I would say right now – this is just my opinion – that it might be stretch for us to take him at 15."
boooyah!
I love it when McKinney puts a bastard in their place. Forget Whiteside. He is immature and a headcase. The dude showed up for the combine in flip flops and “forgot” to bring his shoes. What an idiot. He said he didn’t want to work out for any non-lottery teams. The kids a joke, see you in Bakersfield.
Go Beer, I mean Bucks
by Take Back Our Bucks on Jun 21, 2010 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
next move
You have made Salmon’s agent very happy. I understand the rationale for the pick but how do you address the shooting guard position, Frank? Thanks for response and all of the work you put into this site.
Take your two second rounders and make them a late first.
Take Dom James, Crawford, or Pondexter. If If Anderson falls, go get him, even at 20, make it happen, Go Johnny Go. Hammonds rocks.
Go Beer, I mean Bucks
by Take Back Our Bucks on Jun 21, 2010 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
We can't really replace him even if we get Henry, George, etc
On the one hand you’re right that going big at 15 gives Salmons more leverage, but by the same token he might be less interested in coming back if we draft his replacement. I’m guessing the latter wouldn’t be a huge factor though.
And yes, I agree with TBOB that we could get a quality guard late 1st/early 2nd—we’ve worked out a bunch of those guys (Stephenson was in today). Not sure how much immediate impact they would make but hopefully it’s a guy who can crack the rotation.
Willy Warren has been sliding in a bunch of Mocks
I would love to see Warren in the Ketchup Reds
Go Beer, I mean Bucks
by Take Back Our Bucks on Jun 21, 2010 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I might have to start calling them that :)
I hate how shiny those damn things are…who decided basketball players should be wearing shiny frickin’ jerseys?
Warren is a really interesting player…crazy how much his stock crashed this year.
by Frank Madden on Jun 21, 2010 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions
i'll take a faller over a riser any day
Go Beer, I mean Bucks
by Take Back Our Bucks on Jun 21, 2010 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions
If the Bucks take Udoh...
They should be very aggressive about getting Lance Stephenson or Jordan Crawford. Although, I’m still a fan of getting Henry or George at 15, if possible and taking Gallon or Garcia, or maybe Richards or Seraphin.
I'm guessing he won't
I imagine he’s pulling a Patterson and not working out for non-lotto teams at this point. He had a 2nd workout with the Pacers (#10) today.
by Frank Madden on Jun 21, 2010 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions
would like a combo of Udoh, Crawford & Garcia/Gallon........
would love a combo of Davis, Crawford & Garcia/Gallon
If he doesn't work out for them, I doubt they'll pick him
He just isn’t the guy with the hype around him where you pick him without taking a close look. I think they’d be more likely to draft Sanders and try to sign a guy like Drew Gooden or try to sign Amir Johnson back.
I can’t wait for Thursday!
I dont agree, That philosophy cost them Brook Lopez, if Udoh is there, they will grab him up
Go Beer, I mean Bucks
by Take Back Our Bucks on Jun 21, 2010 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, Udoh's not a mystery like Whiteside or Seraphin...
There aren’t any questions about his attitude/coachability, and it’s very possible the Bucks got a chance to interview him in Chicago (they had 18 slots, not clear who all was in there). For that reason I wouldn’t worry too much about guys like Udoh and Patterson not coming in.
by Frank Madden on Jun 21, 2010 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe it's just me
I guess I get worried about skinny jumpin jack PF like Hakim Warrick
Yeah, he weighed 237 at the combine
He might struggle against big centers but should be fine against post PFs. Scouting reports seem to suggest he also has good footwork on the perimeter for his size.
by Frank Madden on Jun 21, 2010 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm reluctant to want Udoh, as I commented on RU.
But I don’t think the Bucks will pick him anyway. I’m sure they want to get a good look at the players to avoid another Joe Alexander.
…But I hope they don’t pass on Patrick Patterson if he’s available!
"We follow people who know a lot more about basketball than I do or pretend to..."
--David Stern
I would have taken
"We follow people who know a lot more about basketball than I do or pretend to..."
--David Stern
Whoops, sorry.
I would have taken Anderson or Babbitt, if it was me.
"We follow people who know a lot more about basketball than I do or pretend to..."
--David Stern
by Jacob Grinyer on Jun 21, 2010 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I waffled back and forth b/w Udoh and Babbitt
I’d take Davis/Patterson/George ahead of Udoh as well.
by Frank Madden on Jun 21, 2010 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Finally I agree with Chad Ford
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2010/insider/news/story?id=5310157
For those who can’t read it, has the Bucks picking Tiny Gallon at 15! Get the guy you want. He’s got the size, toughness, skill just minus the Jumpin Jack athleticism. Plus he’s the most charismatic guy they’ve had in their interviews.
Be honest...
Outside of what a mock draft says, how many guys on here really followed these guys in the season outside of March Madness enough to make a solid judgement other than what “scouts say” There’s a list of expected players to be drafted and if you don’t draft those guys within 5 of that order, you’re an idiot of a GM. If Michael Redd was the 15th pick in his draft everybody would have said WTF were they thinking, but he should have been the 1st pick in that draft. I say that to say…when the Bucks miss out on Gallon because it was “too early” to get him, but their 2nd round pick is “too late” I’ll be there to say “I told u” down the line. I feel like the talent of PF’s in the 2nd round is equal to those guys were looking at for 15. I’d gladly compare Trevor Booker, Charles Garcia, Tiny Gallon to Ekpe Udoh or Larry Sanders. Although I can understand the argument for Sanders more than Udoh.
fair point
I thought its pretty strange that the Bucks like Sanders in the late first round but not at 15???? If you think a guy can play you think he can play and you grab when you can…..makes we wander if the Bucks are eyeing Sanders all along at 15 but trying to keep their cards close
And McKinney
Makes the same comment about Whiteside. I think the Bucks are trading down and they’ve spoken to teams(OKC?) about it.
Fair Point
And I like Garcia btw but could you not make something out of this and trade down if Gallon was your man?
Not me.
I’ll be the first to admit that I didn’t know who most of these guys were until even after the tournament.
"We follow people who know a lot more about basketball than I do or pretend to..."
--David Stern
by Jacob Grinyer on Jun 21, 2010 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Brandon Jennings made the pick for Gallon
So basically it’s a joke..they just had current players make picks for their own teams, so Jennings went with his ex-teammate.
by Frank Madden on Jun 21, 2010 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I saw that later
I’d say that if Jennings made the pick, it has more merit than if Chad Ford made the pick. Chad Ford makes fake picks once a week lol
Anyone see the proposed trade...
on bleacherreport.com???
#15, Delfino, and Gadz for Andre Igudala [sorry bout the spellin]
It’s a good story, and I really like AI – but he’s due 12+mil a year for the next 4 years
Thoughts???
YES, no question. He's an All-Star, that's 26 for heaven's sake.
What would the Bucks lose in this trade? Salary cap space? They can’t be afraid to pay guys who are “worth” money. Furthermore, the more years into Iggy’s contract he is the more movable he is. When that contract is 3 yrs, $36 million, 2 yrs, $24 million, 1 yr $12 million, he’ll be more easily movable. They would still have Redd’s expiring contract. Iggy was the best thing they could have hoped to trade that for. To get him without giving up Redd’s contract would be a miracle and put Hammond back in the drivers seat to EOY again. If the 15th pick turned out to be as good as Iggy, it would be amazing.
Ok but
If You want to resign Salmons instead youstill have the pick plus Delfino plus Gadz expiring. If we were one player away I’d say pull the trigger but I don’t think we’re quite there yet.
I guess the best question to ask is can Iggy do what Salmons does...
cuz if they do trade for Iggy, they probably won’t re-sign Salmons. So salaries aside would they trade Salmons for Iggy straight up. I’d say yes because 1) Iggy’s an All Star 2) He’s 26 and Salmons is 30
And
If that was the trade I’d say hell yes, but I think we should still be in the process of asset gathering at this time. I dont want to give up 3 assets for one at this time.
Salary matching
The Bucks would essentially still have the money to re-sign Salmons the question is if they could play together.
Agreed, but slight.
Iggy: 6’6" 210lb
Delfino: 6’6" 230lb
I definitely wouldn’t want to give Salmons a substantial contract if I was on the hook for $56 million to Iggy over the next four years. They actually did play together in Philly for two seasons but neither guy was a major contributor at that time.
by Frank Madden on Jun 22, 2010 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Sounds good to me
But it’s Bleacher Report. It’s the black hole of sports websites.
"We follow people who know a lot more about basketball than I do or pretend to..."
--David Stern
by Jacob Grinyer on Jun 21, 2010 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions
That trade would make Philly fans furious
"We follow people who know a lot more about basketball than I do or pretend to..."
--David Stern
by Jacob Grinyer on Jun 21, 2010 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions
There's some pretty terrible stuff on Bleacher Report
I appreciate its spirit of inclusiveness but there’s just no quality control…some stuff is perfectly decent, but there’s so much bad stuff that I don’t even bother reading it unless someone gives me a specific link.
by Frank Madden on Jun 22, 2010 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions
A steep price....
But I view him as a younger, better, more athletic version of Salmons
I’m 50/50 on the idea, personally.
I make the trade....
Fearthedeer is right by saying we can’t be afraid to pay guys that are worth it – I think Redd/Gadz has made everyone a lil gun shy. Iggy is a 26yr old all-star….. get him, and the Bucks will officially have a “big 3” – and would be considered contenders immediately.
They could also package their two 2nd round picks and move up to draft a SF. This trade would seem to make sense for both teams.
If the offer is there…. PULL THE TRIGGER!!
I would just like to say
That It’s such a one sided trade that even Stefanski probably wouldn’t do it, unless Hammond slipped something into his coffee.
"We follow people who know a lot more about basketball than I do or pretend to..."
--David Stern
by Jacob Grinyer on Jun 21, 2010 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Iggy's never been an all-star
He’s good and I generally like him, but if you go down this road then you’re more or less committing to a Bogut/Iggy/Jennings core. Not saying that’s bad—it’s better than what we’ve got—but I also don’t think it makes you a title contender unless Jennings becomes a top 3-5 PG.
So it depends on your perspective…you could say we might as well take Iggy since we’re not going to get a true superstar with our cap space, or you could say it’s not worth backing ourselves into a financial corner unless it really makes us contenders.
If Philly takes Turner then I think I would be down for something like Gadz/Delfino/2nd for Iggy, but I don’t want to give up a first rounder.
by Frank Madden on Jun 22, 2010 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions
He has the quality to be one
I’m guessing he’ll never score enough to get people’s attention, but as a guy who can defend, pass and rebound for his position he’ll likely always be underrated relative to big-time scorers.
by Frank Madden on Jun 22, 2010 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
If Philly takes Turner...
They will have a log-jam at SG – not to mention their horrible cap situation. They NEED to move salary, and Iggy will probably be the one to go.
I think the Bucks NEED to make this deal for 4 reasons:
1. Iggy makes you a much better team and gives Milw a “big 3” for the next few years.
2. He’s enetering his prime and his contract isn’t that bad, in the big picture
3. It would REALLY give the fan base a jolt.
4. The Bucks won’t be able to get anyone near his age/talent next year with all their beloved cap space – the FA pool is shallow, and there’s NO guarantees any of them would come here, anyways.
4yrs @ 12mil mil per isn’t a crazy contract for a 26yr old entering his prime and putting up all-star type numbers.
Maggette???? yes, that’s a bad contract to take on – 3yrs 30mil for a 30yr old role player/spot starter, IMO.
Closer to $14 million per season for Iggy
But I agree that cap space probably doesn’t get you a better combo of talent/price.
by Frank Madden on Jun 22, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t say it’s THAT one sided…. Philly clears big time salary, which they desperatley need to do, and gets the 15th pick…. and they’re gonna draft his clone in Evan Turner anyway – so it does benefit them.
Plus…. it’s not like their trading away a league MVP
True, but he's good enough to be a number 2 guy on a championship team
If he hadn’t played on such poor teams, he’d probably be an allstar
"We follow people who know a lot more about basketball than I do or pretend to..."
--David Stern
by Jacob Grinyer on Jun 21, 2010 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions
hmm I like Iggy on this team
combined with Bogut & BJ
he is versatile, rebounds, passes, slashes, gets to the hoop, defends, shot way to many threes this year but the whole mess that was the 76ers wasnt exactly great for team morale on the 76ers, plus on this team he doesnt have to be the main guy he can fit into a role much better suited to him, plus he is an outstanding athlete
the issue is his contract but he is a serious upgrade on Salmons, 4 years younger and coming into what should be his prime years, Id much rather take on his bloated contract than pay Salmons 4 years at $7 Million
I wouldnt sign Salmons either then I think there are better players we can get as complimentary role players to a trio of Bogut, BJ & Iggy
I like the move as much as I like Delfino
Top Ten Stories in Europe: Number Ten Brandon Jennings
Awesome video that should be posted on the site.
My Idea
Alright, this may sound crazy, but this is what I think:
1) I’ve been a huge advocate of Iggy on this site for a while, and never even considered moving the 15th plus Delfino and Gadz for him. I always thought it would be something like Gadz/Redd for Iggy/Dalembert. Obviously that won’t happen anymore. I think this deal is beneficial for both teams, lowering Philly’s salary by about $2 Million this season, and even more if they non-tender Delfino’s contract (which would save them another 3), and it clears $13 Million off the books for next season if they don’t pick up the team option for Delfino. That alone seems like enough motivation since he and Turner are so similar, and no one is taking Brand, plus they’ll be adding another asset through the pick.
2) For the Bucks, I think this is a no-brainer. Salmons is going to be difficult to re-sign, and I have absolutely no interest keeping him on this team with a 4 year deal. I’m sorry, he was great this year, exactly what we needed, but I just don’t think he can sustain his level of play like he did at the end of the year for a whole season. He wasn’t doing anything at the beginning of the year with Chicago, and he had incredibly fresh legs for the Bucks. It reminds me of when CC was traded to Milwaukee and they rode him so hard. They got the most they could out of him, and had Bogut been healthy they probably would have made even more noise. Anyway….I digress.
Here’s where things get a little crazier. I’ve been looking at the Bucks’ salary for the next two years online, and (follow me on this one) in an ideal world, the bucks would move their two second rounders (and possibly cash) to get back in on the end of the 1st round (possibly Memphis’ last pick?). They use this to draft a back up wing, then trade one of next year’s seconds for a pick in this year’s second to pick up a back up PF/C (to fill the Thomas role). Finally, in free agency, since they won’t have to worry about re-signing Salmons for $7-10 Million, which they can put towards re-signing Ridnour to a 3-year, $10 mil deal, as well as a PF like Drew Gooden for 2 years $10 Mil. Finally, we still have the MLE, right? So we move in and sign Josh Childress to start at SF. That has us stacked for now and the future, under the luxury tax, and still with the ability to move Redd for a stud wing or post player who’s team is desperate to shed salary at the deadline. The only other thing that could make this even more ideal is if Philly took Charlie Bell back, but I’m not sure I’d hold my breath on that one.
So, that gives us:
PG – Jennings/Ridnour/Bell
SG – Iggy/2010 First Rounder/Bell
SF – Childress/Luc/2010 First Rounder
PF – Gooden/Ersan/2010 Second Rounder
C – Bogut/2010 Second Rounder/Gooden
That’s elven guys, and Redd makes twelve. Pick up two or three guys at the veteran minimum, and you’ve got yourself a squad that could definitely turn some heads in the East. Add to that whatever upgrade you can get at PF or SF with Redd’s deal, and I think you’ve got yourself a potential contender in two years’ time.
Sorry I was too verbose, but I’ve been crunching the numbers, it all makes sense, and I think it could be pretty close to the ideal for the Bucks.
I'm pretty sure Gooden...
would take up the MLE – since the Bucks don’t own his bird right.
Everything else sounds good!!
Seems like we have a lot of Whiteside talk going on around here...
I’m really not going to question who Hammond picks because I feel he is a really good GM but I am 99% certain Whiteside will be a bust… he is too frail and doesn’t have the work ethic…
misinformation.... misinformation.... misinformation.....
At the end of the day, that’s what GMs are giving us – who would’ve thought we were taking BJ last year??? No one!!
It’s VERY possible the Bucks deal #15…. or keep it and surprise everyone w/ their pick. They’ve shown that if they like a player, they’ll take him, regardless of where he might be “slotted” on mock drafts or other teams boards.
He worked out the Monday before the draft
And you’re right, only in the last couple days before the draft did people start talking about him as a possibility. He was also more of a mystery since he was in Europe and also skipped the combine and Eurocamp.
by Frank Madden on Jun 22, 2010 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I know I may have contradicted myself on the Maggette trade...
I guess I’m 50/50 on it.
He can help the team, Bell & Gadz can’t, and this may be their best chance to get ANYTHING for them.
I think they can get something of use with Gadz's deal
But it’s also possible the best move is letting it expire. Don’t spend money for the sake of spending money, and don’t trade expiring deals for something simply because you can. We’ll see.
by Frank Madden on Jun 22, 2010 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
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