Corey Maggette finally speaks...but will he start?
We've had plenty of conversation about Corey Maggette since the Bucks acquired him from Golden State a few weeks ago, but of late it's been less about his game and more about...well, his whereabouts. Since June 22, the Bucks have drafted, signed or traded for seven players, and only two of them haven't had a formal press conference to announce their arrival to Milwaukee. One was second round pick Jerome Jordan, which is understandable given that the Bucks sold their rights to him within hours of picking him 44th overall on draft night.
But it had been a bit of a mystery why the only other player who hadn't been heard from was Maggette, the $10 million per year scoring machine acquired from Golden State before the draft. Despite the Maggette trade going down two weeks before John Salmons and Drew Gooden officially signed (and showed up all smiles at the Bradley Center), we had yet to hear a peep from Maggette--no presser, no radio interviews, no newspaper quotes.
Only last week came news that Maggette's physical had revealed a relatively minor ankle injury, requiring arthroscopic surgery and thus delaying official approval of the trade by over a week. That put to bed the conspiracy theories about the Bucks working on a follow-on trade, and only yesterday did Maggette finally make his Milwaukee media debut in an interview with WSSP (thanks to Speedingtime for the link). There's not a whole to be gleaned from the interview except that he's hanging out in L.A.. as his ankle heals, though if you like awkward questions, you'll probably enjoy hearing him asked "how do you respond to people saying you don't try on defense?" and "do you think Miwaukee is a terrible, boring city?" Welcome to Milwaukee, Corey.
Maggette will score, but will he start?
No one doubts Maggette's ability to score effectively. Though some might scoff at scoring numbers put up in Don Nelson's system, consider that Maggette has averaged over 20 pts/40 minutes in eight straight seasons, and has been exceptionally efficient as well (career 58.1% true shooting) thanks to his incredible ability to get to the line (over 10 fta/40 minutes six straight seasons). To put that in perspective, the Bucks as a team averaged ony 20.4 fta/game last year--only 17 ft/40 minutes for five guys at a time.
Still, it's very possible Maggette is utilized as a super sixth man rather than as a starter, a role he's excelled in (if not exactly embraced) with both the Warriors and Clippers. In discussing Gooden and the Bucks' improved rebounding, John Hammond mentioned on WSSP this week that Andrew Bogut, Gooden and Carlos Delfino would give the Bucks a frontline with three strong rebounders and defenders. Some might debate that claim about Gooden's defense, but all the stats check out on the rebounding side. What's more interesting is that he alluded to Delfino starting ahead of Maggette at small forward, ignoring Maggette entirely despite the fact that he's also one of the league's best rebounding threes. His actual words don't put anything in stone, but they seem telling:
"If you look at our frontline initially, if you want to pencil in Carlos Delfino for now, for discussion's sake..."
Hammond is always quick to note that Skiles is the one who determines who plays and who doesn't, but you have to think his comments are broadly indicative of the organization's overall thinking right now. And while Maggette is no doubt better compensated and more talented in a general sense than Carlitos, he seems a much clearer fit as a second unit scoring machine than a starter trying to integrate with an already-successful unit. I'd be surprised if Maggette doesn't play 25-30 mpg regardless of how he's used, but having more of those minutes come while the Bucks' other scoring threats are resting could have a key balancing effect for a team that was just 23rd in the league in points per possession.
If it ain't broke...
In 258 minutes as a unit last year, Skiles' first choice combination of Jennings/Salmons/Delfino/Mbah a Moute/Bogut outscored opponents 482-422, good for a whopping 14.3 pts/100 possession differential. To give you a frame of reference, the Bucks overall outscored opponents by a margin of 104.9 to103.1 per 100 possessions, so the performance of their starting unit after Salmons arrived was nothing short of fantastic.
Nobody would argue Defino was the catalyst for the Bucks' incredible finish, but he's exactly the kind of quality role player you can play alongside Jennings and Salmons, both of whom need to be handling the ball a significant amount to be effective. Given the need to also get Bogut touches in the post, it's crucial to have at least a couple starters who can be productive without requiring a lot touches or shots, and both Delfino and Gooden fit the bill. As we saw a year ago, Delfino's a capable defender, good rebounder, willing passer, and the perfect guy to park in the corners (a ridicuous 37/66 in the left, 30/82 in the right). Mbah a Moute also fits the mold of complementary player, but I'm not convinced the defensive upgrade he provides over Delfino makes up for his limited offensive game, particularly at small forward. Hopefully Luc brings a more consistent jumper next season, but until that happens he looks more like a situational player brought in to defend mobile PFs and star wings.
Maggette's boost off the bench
Another nice part about Maggette coming off the bench is that he's done it before. Despite his prolific scoring figures, he came off the bench in 21 of 70 games last year and has rotated between the bench and starting lineup for most of his career. While Maggette maintains that he's a starter, he's been both accepting and productive as a sixth man. It's easy to take that for granted--in theory these guys should adapt to whatever the coach asks them, right? But then consider how easy it would have been to make Michael Redd a sixth man before all his injuries. Don't underestimate the politics of benching a one-time franchise player who has a $90 million contract.
Deploying Maggette as a sixth man also gives the Bucks more freedom with their second unit options. A year ago the Bucks were incredibly dependent on Luke Ridnour to provide scoring off the bench, and we also shouldn't forget that Jerry Stackhouse got an absurd number of plays called for him considering his age and declining effectiveness as a scorer. Both guys could still carry the Bucks' offense in spurts, but Ridnour's career year is unlikely to be matched and Stackhouse can't consistently bring it night in and night out anymore. A year ago, Maggette shot better as a starter (53%) but still put up good numbers off the bench (15.9 ppg in 25 mpg on 47.6% shooting), and in 08/09 he was actually more effective off the bench (18.6 ppg on 48.3% shooting in 29 minutes vs. 18.7 ppg on 42.7% shooting in 35 mpg).
The presence of Maggette, and to a lesser extent Chris Douglas-Roberts, has made re-signing Stackhouse unnecessary (obviously) and also decreased the pressure for the Bucks to re-sign Ridnour, whose scoring knack is no longer as useful. Hammond has sounded increasingly resigned to Ridnour finding a fat contract elsewhere, though his tone also seems to suggest the Bucks aren't too broken up about it. It's a weird combination of effusive praise and cheerful indifference, almost like a college coach watching one of his players leave for the pros.
"I think Luke's going to have a great opportunity for himself--and he deserves it. He deserves the contract he might be receiving from another team. It's not that we're not going to continue discussing things with him, we will. But I think it's going tobe pretty difficult for us and we'd be thrilled for him if he gets a great opportunity."
Hammond's resignation was more understandable a couple weeks ago before the Lakers and Knicks solved their point problems, but it's a bit tougher to figure out Ridnour's next move now that both of his most obvious suitors seem to have moved on. Miami would no doubt also be thrilled to add Frodo to their ridiculous core of SuperFriends, but it's tough to say if Ridnour is up for leaving money on the table given he's 29 and coming off the most productive season of his career.
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Comments
Posting suggestions
Just re-posting this after our discussion in the other thread:
1) If you disagree with something, keep it civil and related to the topic. I think people generally do a very good job of this, but we’ve had a couple issues where stuff gets a bit personal (I think we can guess what I’m referring to). I know there’s that temptation at times, but if someone bothers you it might be easier to ignore them rather than goad them into more. Don’t feed the bears?
2) If you’re replying to a specific comment, click the "reply" button on that comment so that it goes under the original comment (with the indent). If you’re not responding to that specific comment, use the "post a new comment" dialog box that’s always visible at the bottom. That makes it a bit easier for people to see how the comments are organized.
3) With a couple hundred comments in a thread, I often find it easiest to use the "z" key to toggle through all the new comments. Even if you don’t comment much or at all, creating a login will let you know how many new comments have been added since you last read that post and use the "z" key to quickly jump through all the new ones. That way you can skip over the big chunks of old comments you’ve already read.
4) If you do have a multi-paragraph comment about a new topic not related to the original post or other comments, then consider turning it into a fanpost (if there isn’t one already about it). This isn’t a huge deal to me, so I’ll leave it up to your discretion obviously.
FanPosts don’t have to be novels, but if you have some thoughts on a new topic they’re a good way to get a focused discussion going about it. You can also create polls, and I like to link to the good fanposts in the main blog as well (I’ve done that a few times lately with the "backup PG" fanpost).
Does that sound good? Feedback welcome obviously…here or via email brewhoop@gmail.
+1 for suggestion #1 :)
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 11, 2010 3:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Whoever thought of the Z key thing should win a Nobel prize!
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jul 11, 2010 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, especially in game threads
Makes it easier to keep pace when new comments are being added while you’re in the thread…
by Frank Madden on Jul 11, 2010 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
woo hoo Maggette.....6th man of the year get on it.....
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
also Jennings FB update is like some weird cross between hip hop music updates and random zen wisdom
todays nugget:
Being solo, and low-key is always the way to go……. Less-drama!!!
profound I like it
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
He's been talking to Phil Jacksonn ;)
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jul 11, 2010 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Our Backup Point
Dominic James? He’s been connected to the Bucks for years, he’s just had a lot of tough breaks. Maybe this is the year he makes the team.
I didn't watch much Dominic James when he was in college, but the only criteria I care about in a back-up PG is
1) doesn’t turn the ball over a lot
2) can hit the kick out J
3) can defend his position
Anything else is a bonus but shouldn’t really be the focus of the PG search imo.
by FearTheDeer on Jul 11, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
We should go over the cap to sign Ridnour to a one year contract then trade him along with michael Redd to some idiot team trying to win the Carmelo Lotto.
I wouldn't be surprised
To see Ridnour sign a 1-year deal at this point to show he can consistently perform at that level, but I doubt it will be with the Bucks considering he’ll have a much decreased role to show that ability.
by FearTheDeer on Jul 11, 2010 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
That Video May Be Illuminating
Maggette is going to infuriate some fans. Not one highlight is a pass. Every highlight that starts in the full court is him dribbling up the court and charging at the well protected rim. He’s going to be interesting to watch age. What game will he have once he loses his legs?
Watch the video at 2:33, Maggette often looks like he’s considering a pass to an open teammate, but that is merely another weapon in his arsenal of ways to get to the basket.
the pass to team mate as a diversion? I like it.......just seems like a perfect scorer off the bench
and in aussie terms Maggette is built like a brick shithouse…..so he is built to dominate against less physical defenders in the paint……just seems like a great mismatch that we can use and that we lacked last year
also on the pg thing Im not averse to going with a younger guy who is hungry to prove himself, rather than some known quantity avg guy who we know kinda sucks anyway….we have alot of depth elsewhere why not take a chance of someone
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
Plus he has sneaky quickness, for now.
by MadTown Hoops on Jul 11, 2010 6:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree, although we’ll be taking plenty of chances with the new picks and Bogut and Redd’s injuries. A veteran point with toughness and defense and three point shooting would be very nice, but where one does not exist at a reasonable price, we should go young. If we think that there is a guy out there that has that potential, we should sign him. The main thing to remember is that this is a backup in a lean year.
by MadTown Hoops on Jul 11, 2010 6:33 AM CDT up reply actions
That dunk on Dwight and beating Kirilenko to the rim were sick at the end though.
by MadTown Hoops on Jul 11, 2010 6:25 AM CDT up reply actions
I have never seen a highlight reel with so many flops on it by the highlighted player.
Apparently, Maggette likes to take charges while on defense.
by Brick's house on Jul 11, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
26th in the league in charges by players who played over 40 games...
With him, Ersan and Bogut we’re going to have a lot of bodies hitting the ground…!
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jul 11, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
don nelson
maggette was often played at the power forward position last year, so he was very often mismatched. taking charges in those circumstances, which he appeared to do pretty well in the video, would be a good defensive approach.
Most YouTube highlight reels with screaming rap music aren't too big on passing.
But you’re right, he’ll have to realize when to pass and when not too, and use it to his advantage.
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jul 11, 2010 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Just looked at the roster
And this team is a lazy coach’s nightmare. It could also be a creative coach’s dream, with endless matchups. Each player is completely unique on the team. Don Nelson wants to be the Bucks coach so bad right now.
I disagree.
I see this team possibly a four seed next season. With long range shooters like Ridnour, Bell and Stackhouse gone, replaced with more mid range shooters in Gooden, CDR and Maggette, not only did it greatly increase the talent level of the team, but makes those open jumpers from mid range that Luc Richard was horrible at, those type of shots will not start falling.
In addition, we will be stopping the clock, getting to the FT lane more, and become more of a bruising team because in addition to becoming more talented and atheletic, we have also gotten physically bigger. Andrew now has some help with Gooden and Sanders, and later Gallon, to help combat the multiple bigs teams always throw at him.
So I do understand as we look at the roster, it doesn’t seem to want to flow because of that very contrast in styles I just mentioned, but a closer look reveils it is the same style just from five feet closer in.
During potential scoring droughts we can dial up Maggette or CDR to get to the line to buy us time until we get out of a scoring funk, so instead of scoring maybe 3 points in a 7 minute stretch like year while the other team is scoring 17, maybe we score 8 or nine, and keep stopping the clock and halting the other teams momentum. Could mean the diference between winning a losing a game down the stretch as well switching to that style late.
The key on the court is they have to continue to have spacing and move the ball fast, look for early offense, take the shot if it is a good one, or pass to a better shot. Now in Gooden and Bogut you have two post up guys, so go through the middle on occasion, and play inside out.
Play hard, play smart and play fast.
Off the court, if the chemistry can be as last year, and that is a bigger question than who is going to start at SF, that is going to make the diference on what could very well be a top four seed possibilty based on the talent level and coach of this team.
Hammond and Ted Thompson are similar in they both look for two things in any player they bring on to their resective teams. Incoming Packer and Bucks players (you can look up and down both rosters and see it) have these 2 traits…
1. Good Character.
2. Tough guys.
So regarding chemistry and the men Hammond has assembled, I think there is more of a possibity that we will have winning chemistry as opposed to not. The rookie’s are hungry and all ears, and the vets are tired of losing. I think it works. Time will tell.
Tiny Gallon for Backup Center
We need Kurt Thomas, but if we can’t have him, how about Tiny Gallon? Gooden has played center before, but we need him to start and Gallon is only 1 inch shorter and outweighs him by 40 pounds(two stone?). In an athletic backup rotation with Maggette and Sanders, he could thrive. Sanders would protect the paint, and Gallon would be able to bring his 360 game in the fullcourt. This will be a fast explosive team.
Tiny playing backup center...
…this coming season would (I think) be a major surprise – given that 46 or so players were taken ahead of him. Given that Tiny joins us liking to play and shoot outside. Given that folks say Tiny has a lot of maturing to do, and disciplining of his game to accept.
The Bucks may have precisely that in mind for him (a 4 & 5 role) but I start off expecting it to take a while. Hammond likes smart, tenacious, team-oriented players. But I think it may have been physical attributes (and perhaps the Jennings connection) that led to drafting Mr. Gallon.
Maybe we’ll learn a little more in the summer league. Games on TV Monday and Tuesday, right? Is that NBA-TV? Are they at night?
The z key works great.
by unklchuk on Jul 11, 2010 7:45 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Summer league schedule.
Mon., July 12 Dallas 7:00 p.m. Cox Pavilion (NBATV)
Tue., July 13 Memphis 7:00 p.m. Cox Pavilion (NBATV)
Thu., July 15 Atlanta 7:30 p.m. Thomas & Mack Center (NBA.com BROADBAND)
Fri., July 16 Miami 9:30 p.m. Thomas & Mack Center (NBA.com BROADBAND)
Sun., July 18 Cleveland 3:00 p.m. Cox Pavilion (NBATV
Summer League
No game with D-League Select?
by Marko Schmidt on Jul 11, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not counting on anything fromTiny
Anything’s possible, especially if guys get hurt. I liked the pick, but dishingoutdimes’ scouting report also made it clear that he’s a raw player who might not be polished enough on either end to see minutes. I think Sanders and Gooden are both much more likely to see minutes at 5 than Gallon. Tiny’s bulk relative to Sanders/Gooden would seem to give him an advantage against bigger centers, but I’m not sure he knows how to use that weight effectively in an NBA setting yet.
by Frank Madden on Jul 11, 2010 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
If Tiny gets any more than 5-6 min a game...
…there’s 6 PF right there…a 300lb foul machine at the moment…
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 12, 2010 12:45 AM CDT up reply actions
What impresses me about Corey
Is the ability he has to get a shot off in traffic, and to alter that shot almost without effort, guy is an uncanny scorer. Ya and that dunk on Durant………..sweet
Question for Frank-Professor of Caponomics
Okay I now know what a trade exception is, but how does Miami get these 2 trade exceptions to send to Toronto and Cleveland. Did they acquire them from someone else? CBA seems almost Animal Farmish with all of the loopholes and quirks.
Big trade exceptions are created when a team over the cap sends salary to a team under the cap
Traded player exceptions (TPEs) can’t be passed from one team to another. I haven’t looked at the Heat details yet, but as long as they have the cap space to absorb salary then they can let Cleveland and Toronto sign their stars and ship them to Miami for less than equal salary. It’s effectively the same as signing them outright, but the home teams can give them bigger raises and the sixth year, and in return Miami can send them picks or players (but doesn’t have to match salaries). It would also create large TPEs for Cleveland/Toronto, which are kind of like cap IOUs—since they didn’t take back equal salary for LeBron, Cleveland gets a big exception which they can use to acquire a big contract from another team within one year of the original LBJ trade.
by Frank Madden on Jul 11, 2010 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
You're reading too much into it Frank...
…I didn’t hear Hammond say….Delfino will be our starter at the SF position either. Using your logic we could also surmise then he isn’t happy with Delfino, because he was entrenched last season as the starting SF, but now in listening to Hammond it sounds like Delfino isn’t set in stone as the starter as one might think :)
My point? Both views are equally unreliable. I think it is open competition, and how it all fits once it comes together. As long as everyone is willing to accept whatever role they are assigned without any jealously or bickering, I am fine with whatever Skiles decides.
But for now I think it is wide open who is going to sart or who isn’t. My preference as you know would be to start the more talented Maggttee ahead of the less talented Delfino, but we’ll see.
We have instant offence off the bench in CDR, and with the lack of scoring in the starting five at time during long stretches last season, Maggette, Salmons and Jennings is a nice trio of skill guys to maybe not go for such long periods of not scoring.
We are not going to be the bombs away team of last season, Skiles will adjust his coaching to now adapt to a more mid range and post game, because that is the skill set the new guys have coming in on this years team.
Ersan, Carlos, Jennings, and Salmons are guys who can knock down some three’s for ya, but Maggette, CDR, and Gooden have nice mid range games, and because all three will get major minutes, I expect to see a lot of 15 to 17 ft open jumpers as well, which will be a huge diference from last year when we were the worst shooting team in the league, or close to it.
Of course we lead the league in shot attempts per game, meaning we moved the ball around fast. That style won’t change, but the shots we take will be closer in I believe.
Where did I say anything is set in stone?
Of course it’s a competition, and I can’t imagine anyone would look at Delfino as a lynchpin starter. But clearly the Bucks’ brass has an idea about how they might be utilizing Maggette. And I think it makes perfect sense…just look at what’s being said and not said about the Bucks’ summer acquisitions.
Compare Gooden and Maggette. Skiles said he’d be “shocked” if Gooden doesn’t start, and Hammond similarly is sounding like he was acquired to be the starting PF. What about Maggette? They haven’t said anything to that effect about Maggette despite his big contract, which I think makes sense.
I just see starting Maggette as more of the fantasy basketball move…start your five best individual players and hope they figure out how to share the ball and worry about the bench later.
by Frank Madden on Jul 11, 2010 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
It makes sense to start Delfino, for the reasons stated by Frank regarding "balance"
That is all I interpreted out of Frank’s post. Working Maggette into our starters could have negative effects. Having CM as a 6th man makes total sense, given his skills and desire to score the basketball. Last season, we had Stack and Ridnour as our second unit options. From a scoring load distrbution standpoint, Maggette replaces both of them. Th competition for the starting 3 spot isn’t just based on talent (which Maggette wins out against several players in this league, inccluding several starters). It’s about need, fit, and balance.
STARTING 5
Yeah, I agree.
Delfino should start mainly because the continuity of this team will be lost with Mags at the helm!
But the question at hand is, is Delfino better? STATISTICALLY no. Mags scores more. Delfino’s defense makes him the starter on this team. What if this team is offensively challenged by these players not living up to expectations, ala Salmons in Chicago and Jennings hitting another wall. Maggette creeps into the Starting role because of the offensive punch and this team takes on the ’chucker" identity again!
by Marko Schmidt on Jul 11, 2010 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Dude... do you really think Skiles will let this team turn into "chuckers"?
Have you watched Skiles coach a game???
Well, players don't always listen to their coach
Although it’s a priority with Skiles….
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jul 11, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Definitely
Maggette will get more minutes than Delfino on a nightly basis.
by FearTheDeer on Jul 11, 2010 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Delfino can also play SG
No reasons CD and CM can’t play together as well. Will be very interesting to see how PT shakes out with CDR also in the fold…
by Frank Madden on Jul 11, 2010 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Ala JET in Dallas...
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 12, 2010 12:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Does anyone find the Net's offer to Morrow
A touch on the low side considering other contracts? When Matthews get 5/34 I think Morrow looks cheap at 3/12.
Yep
If the W’s don’t match that will be one of the best signings of the summer IMO. And it will say a lot about the Warriors’ disinterest in fielding a basketball team next year, considering they’ve already traded away Maggette and Azubuike.
by Frank Madden on Jul 11, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
...and Turiaf...
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 12, 2010 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions
i think that’s because he is considered more of a specialty player, a shooter, than a more complete player. i think he is worth way more because his upside is unlimited, and he is statistically one of the best shooters of all time if he keeps his numbers up – see john hollinger’s article about Combined Shooting Rate.
Not sure how his name came up, but I saw him play last year in H.S.
I saw him play a game at Ames High. He was just so much better than everyone on the court. He had a pro body and a refined pro game as a high school senior. He was a little lazy on defense, but I think he was just bored. Ames High went undefeated his last two years of H.S.
by Brick's house on Jul 11, 2010 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
I meant to reply to Frank's post
About the W’s and wondered if they were trying to get more ping-pong balls for Harrison Barnes.
by CanadaBucks on Jul 11, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
The way I look at Maggette.
If he comes off the bench the Bucks can consider him a huge upgrade over Stackhouse. Granted, with his salary, the Bucks are paying a lot for that upgrade, but it is an upgrade nonetheless.
Congrats to Wesley Matthews!
Blazers have signed Matthews to an offer sheet of 5 years $33 million. Whether he goes to Portland, or stays with Utah, that is a great story for an undrafted player.
I'm not sure if I would match that if I'm Utah or not
Seems like an awful lot.. But either way yeah It is a very big accomplishment for him.
Portland must really like players from Utah… Last year they tried to sign Millsap but Utah matched it.
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jul 11, 2010 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Portland frontloaded the deal too, with his first year salary being $9.2 million.
Not sure how they did that, because they are using their MLE to sign him.
by Brick's house on Jul 11, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I think they purposely went high
So Utah wouldn’t match. It’s not like Allen is going to go into debt to pay the tax
by CanadaBucks on Jul 11, 2010 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure it makes sense to match given they just drafted Hayward
…and it’s not like Matthews is an extremely proven starter.
by Frank Madden on Jul 11, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Who's running the show in Portland...?
They still haven’t hired a GM.
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jul 11, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
haha Paul Allen is 'running' the show....
which is kinda like saying the crazies are in charge of the loony bin…apologies to the crazies
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
Hey! I resemble that remark....!
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 12, 2010 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it has to do with the signing bonus being paid all at once
But being spread out over the entire contract for cap purposes.
Eagerly awaiting SBN Madison.
I voted for Delfino to start
I believe that it’s always good to get off to a great start. While Maggette is a much better scorer, Delfino is a better passer and defender and knows Skiles and his system well. My guess would be that Maggette would end the game though and might get more minutes than Carlitos anyway.
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
I think a side benefit
Would be scoring pop off the bench if the starting five start slowly and Skiles makes one of his 3 minutes in lineup overhauls. Him being the scorer on the second unit seems to be the big reason for bringing him off the bench, but I think he could be used to light a fire under/with the starting unit, too.
Eagerly awaiting SBN Madison.
That's true as well
If his one on one scoring can make up for the decreased ball movement and maybe decreased defense, I don’t know how bad of a defender he really is or how well he’d do fitting into the Buck’s team defense.
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jul 11, 2010 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions
The warriors moved Maggette to the bench....
with the thinking that he is a great FT shooter. His scoring was increased off the bench when he was in the game more when the opponent put them in the bonus.
Delfino starter on paper...
I think he’s mentioned as starter only because he’s the incumbent. And maybe a little to recognize his feelings when he recently said he needed minutes to play effectively. A little like an injured player not losing his position during the injury.
Delfino is an egg that’s hatched. All the others (except the specialist Mbah) are eggs that haven’t hatched yet on our team. Coaches and GMs like to deal with hatched eggs.
I’d guess management thinks of Delfino as a C+ starter. Does a number of things pretty well, so has a positive effect. But I think they’ll look at all options during training camp. I’d guess he has roughly a 35% chance of starting a month or so into the regular season. With 30% for Maggette, 20% for someone not on the roster yet, and 15% for another of our 3s.
you know whats worse than ESPN's coverage of LBJ FA farce........ESPNS's coverage of the world cup final im about to shoot myself
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
Don't pull the trigger
We’ll miss your Maggette hatred…!
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jul 11, 2010 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
mate the host just said we dont ever want to be sensationalistic with a straight face haha
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
"sensationalistic"
Didn’t think that ESPN thought that highly of it’s viewers…..
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jul 11, 2010 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah getting some rubbish feed from India ESPN...joy :)
its ok I suppose jut overkill with the advertisements and hype….not much proper analysis….maybe im asking too much
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
off the topic a bit but im hoping for an orange party 2-1
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
I'm going for Spain
I’m a Barca fan, and Spain is basically Barcelona minus Messi…
by Frank Madden on Jul 11, 2010 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
cool cool.......gotta a bit of money on the Dutch so im biased...but should be a great final
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
Or had the intelligence to make up waords with that many syllables...;)
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 12, 2010 12:51 AM CDT up reply actions
'words'...sigh!
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 12, 2010 12:51 AM CDT up reply actions
hey hey I thought I proclaimed Maggette as the odds on 6th man candidate of the year.....
just seems the perfect fit for that role on this team……
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
It is indeed
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jul 11, 2010 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm fine with the Bucks roster starting any of Delfino, Maggette, CDR, or LRMAM at SF
but I voted for LRMAM because a defensive stopper on a teams best wing would be great for starting games. In complement to all of the other 4 starters who can put the ball in the bucket.
Talk about starting defensive front court…LRMAM, Gooden, and Bogut. The opposing team is really earning those points and rebounds.
My only problem is that you sacrifice a lot of offense with LRMAM on the floor
Perhaps we don’t need it with his defense but…
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jul 11, 2010 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions
its alot about fit with the other starters...Delfino just seems a better fit with Bogut, Salmons, Jennings
in that he can shoot the open 3, hang tough defensively, and doesnt need the ball to be effective………Maggette is pretty much the opposite he needs the ball to be effective, his defense is questionable and he isnt the best spot up shooter………seems alot of issues would be solved by Maggette coming off the bench
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
I'd argue that
LRMAM is a better defender than Delfino, a better rebounder than Delfino, and doesn’t even need the ball as much as Delfino.
He can’t shoot at all, but the rebounding upgrade leads to more shots and garbage points. I’m equally comfortable letting Jennings or Salmons shoot the open 3 too.
ok interesting only thing is the shooting and the Bucks like a 3pt threat so maybe Delfino gets the nod?
having said that against the top scorers you want LRMAM battling against them
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
He's not that better of a rebounder
and he is a better defender. But when you go on offense you sacrifice a lot. A garbage points player with bad offense is better suited off the bench IMO.
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jul 11, 2010 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Perspective
Carlos has a marginal edge in PER last season and about 5-6ppg more than LRMAM (in more minutes tho). I’d guess that LRMAM stops about 5-6ppg on the defensive end more than Delfino, but that can’t be proven.
Also, starting doesn’t mean you get the majority of the minutes, I think LRMAM can set the tone for the first 6 minutes and if need be he sits the rest of the half. That allows you to see if he’s got his jumper going, energy going, etc. but also gives a majority of the minutes to the first guy off the bench.
When we play Kobe, Lebron, JJ, Durant, Roy, Carmelo, etc…I’d prefer to have LRMAM on the court. Let Salmons guard the easier assignment so he can go to work offensively and get going early.
If there's a story on LRMAM...
and how much his game has grown in the off-season, we might see him start. But I’m skeptical.
The weaknesses we saw at PF last season would IMO be more obvious at SF. No offense. Not much handle. Not a slasher. Not an attacking passer.
But I think Skiles would like to be able to use him situationally off the bench.
Luc's role is very similiar to that of a player like Chuck Hayes.
Garbage player, rebounds,sets good picks, is generally in the right place at the right time, and plays great defense. That type of player is great coming off the bench, but if you have to rely on him as a starter, as the Rockets did last year with Hayes, the team is going to struggle.
by Brick's house on Jul 11, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree.... Luc is best served coming off the bench as the 3rd PF/SF.....
And defensive specialist, as needed….. He’ll get a lot of min when they play Miami ; )
That has to be judged on a team by team basis
If we’re talking about LRMAM on a team with an all-star PF/SF then yeah maybe we put him deep on the bench, but we’re talking about Carlos Delfino here. Delfino wouldn’t even start on over 50% of the teams in the NBA. No discredit to Delfino, but let’s not give him too much credit either.
I guess the best way to resolve this debate is to say that the Bucks will be playing forward by committee.
The Bucks have the most depth at the 2,3,4 positions and the most talent at 1 and 5. The Bucks will have to overcome the lack of elite players at 2,3 and 4 by utilizing their versatility, depth and hustle.
by Brick's house on Jul 11, 2010 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Which is why it's good to have our current roster...
…because of the different options/skills available at those 3 positions.
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 12, 2010 12:55 AM CDT up reply actions
I still don't understand why people aren't EXCITED about having Maggette here....
To have a proven 20ppg come off the bench is a luxury few teams have – CM is a proven scorer that gets to the line…. something the Bucks need badly. Bucks fans should be elated with his addition!!
And for those who don’t like his salary/contract, I’ll say this [so i don’t upset frank ; )
Todays NBA is full of marginal players making all-star money – so CMs deal is not NEARLY as bad as people think, IMO.
To put it in perspective….. Redd rarely passed the ball & played NO defense, but he was a pure scorer, just like CM – and Redd was given a MAX contract…. And just look at some of the deals that were signed over the last week. Yikes!!
If CM plays out the remainder of his deal [3 yrs] he’ll esentially be paid around 17mil, when you factor the Bell/Gadz deal/contracts
So think of it like this….. Hammond essentially got a 20ppg scorer and likely 6th MOY for the MLE for 3yrs….. how can you NOT like that?!!!
Mags
Because, we have been burned before on players with high offensive output, I think Mags is a selfish player.
No D, Probably will complain about coming off the bench when he has been a hero on a crappy Warriors team, and this is going to end with the BUCKS trading him at the deadline!
LOCK IT UP
by Marko Schmidt on Jul 11, 2010 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Off-topic
I think a good litmus test for whether or not someone is a Bucks fan is to see if they think of basketball or flowers when they see “FTD.”
Eagerly awaiting SBN Madison.
Lol
Or they might think, “Is that some kind of disease?”
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jul 11, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Context of Maggette's acquisition counts as well
I like him a lot more as a guy we got for Gadz/Bell ($14 million of deadweight salary) than if we just signed him straight away for $31 million. Incremental cost isn’t much considering he was acquired for Bell/Gadz.
by Frank Madden on Jul 11, 2010 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I like Maggette as an important piece...
Providing aggressive offense and drawing fouls. I perked up when I read that he’s a hard worker. A good rebounder. Stays in shape. I suspect he is willing to play more defense than he’s been required to. I like that Hammond knows him from the west coast.
But he may be the kind of guy you don’t put a major coaches’ effort into getting him to be team-aware and passing the ball. Not because he’s selfish, but because he may be a guy who doesn’t see the whole court. Who’s at his best when he can concentrate on being just Maggette and doing his thing.
I watched a chunk of that highlight video mentioned here. Don’t recall seeing much that suggested he was aware of what his teammates were doing.
All this speculation may be wrong. But even if it’s right, it doesn’t mean he can’t help us win.
The highlight video wasn't designed to show that
It was meant to show his scoring skills
I get that...
…but still don’t recall him faking to teammates or even looking at them before scoring. Wouldn’t fakes allow him to create uncertainty in his defender and get a better shot? Wouldn’t you see some of that even in a scoring video?
And why was the video designed to show his scoring skills instead of showing his basketball skills? Truth be told, the video wasn’t designed for fans like me, and I don’t much like it…
Reading too much into this
The video was obviously self-serving to Maggette. I am pretty sure the Milwaukee Bucks have done their due diligence before acquiring this guy. If he is indeed going to come off Skiles’ bench, I care less about his secondary skills at this point. The fact is, when Salmons, Jennings, and/or Bogut were out of the lineup, this team had trouble scoring. This is precisely why they acquired Corey Maggette.
Getting rid of two boat anchors for a guy who contributes heavily
Makes it a solid trade. Bell and Gadz played their way OUT of Skiles rotation. No use havin them cemented on the bench for another season.
...only if they 'lithp'... ;)
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 12, 2010 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Speaking of off topic
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Ak8lFMrz9DgVoByLd5iHw728vLYF?slug=ys-freeagentbuzz071110
Oh dear. Kahn is picky about his point guards. Does he think Ridnour’s going to come off the bench or is he going to send Flynn to the bench?
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
I swear every single move that Kahn makes revolves around the PG position somehow....
Really? Get rid of a young point guard with potential and replace him with an aging vet with a fluke year and sign him for the same amount?

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jul 11, 2010 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions
He loves SFs too
What are the odds of a 23-year-old Wes Johnson ending up better than DeMarcus Cousins? At least Lazar Hayward is going to be a star…
by Frank Madden on Jul 11, 2010 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions
and don't forget Euro centers.
He loves them so much, he is willing to part with Al Jefferson for pennies on the dollar.
by Brick's house on Jul 12, 2010 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions
he sees Euro centers as just big white point guards
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
I bet
He has some 5 year plan in place where he’s going to do this for each position until he finds the perfect player for each ;)
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jul 12, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions

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