Heat 78, Bucks 58: Long week continues
by Frank Madden on Jul 17, 2010 5:14 AM CDT
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57 comments
With fives games in seven days, the Bucks knew this would be a long week, particularly given the shortage of talent they were bringing with them to Nevada. And four games in, they're looking increasingly tired and uncompetitive. After a bright start by Larry Sanders and the mysteriously acquired Sun Yue helped the Bucks to a 20-14 first quarter lead, Miami simply outworked and outplayed the Bucks for the final 30 minutes of the game.
Sanders was again a force on defense but up and down on the offensive end, while Micah Downs finally found his stroke after scoring just six points (all in game one) up until now. Downs did almost all his damage off catch-and-shoot plays, hitting 5/7 threes on his way to a game-high 21.
I'll be at the games tomorrow and Sunday, so we'll have a bit more coverage on non-Bucks stuff as well. Randomly-sourced gossip of the night? After I explained that I was here for summer league, my Russian cabbie mentioned he gave a ride to an NBA player yesterday, though he didn't remember his name. But he said he played for two years in Cleveland and was now with Milwaukee, which made it obvious that it was Darnell Jackson. The cabbie claimed Jackson thought he might be heading to Miami next...and that he was a bad tipper. Do with that what you will.
On to player discussions after the jump.
Larry Sanders - 34 min, 5/14 fg, 4/6 ft, 14 pts, 8 reb, 5 blk, 3 to, 4 pf
Sanders got off to a quick start, working a nice high-low with Tiny Gallon for a layup and then showing off his little man skills by using a hesitation dribble to setup a contested 17-footer. Late in the first he buried a spot-up 20-footer from the right wing and had eight points after just a quarter, looking on the verge of another big offensive game.
But the downside of a big man making early jumpers is that it encourages him to just shoot jumpers, and Sanders got a bit too ambitious as the game went on. An airballed jumper here, a misfired step-back there. It's clear in the post he'd rather step back and shoot a jumper than back his man down and put up a hook shot, which isn't ideal given the physical skills he brings to the table.
Defensively, he continues to flash terrific upside. He blocked another five shots tonight, though it's worth mentioning that Shavlik Randolph got enough open looks to post 18 points on him.
Tiny Gallon - 23 min, 1/6 fg, 0/1 threes, 1/3 ft, 9 rebs, 1 ast, 7 pf, 8 to
Gallon hasn't made much progress this week, but all you can do is give him time and hope he figures things out. He's been most effective as a rebounder and does seem to find good positions to catch the ball around the hoop, but he mostly looks more interested in stepping outside to snap off errant jump shots.
Sun Yue - 19 min, 2/6 fg, 0/3 threes, 3/3 ft, 7 pts, 3 ast, 4 to
It's not like I expect him to make the roster, but Sun's an interesting player despite having played just 28 minutes of NBA ball since being drafted by the Lakers in the second round in 2007. At this point the odds are clearly stacked against him ever becoming a legit NBA player, but to his credit he's not just a tall athlete masquerading as a point--he does seem to have some legit playmaking skills.
Coming off the bench, Sun started promisingly with a three-point play late in the first quarter, using a screen to work his way to the foul line and drain a jumper despite contact. He followed it up with a turnaround out of the post a short while later, and near the end of the quarter put the Bucks up six with perhaps the highlight of the game. He spun past a defender in the backcourt, drove the length of the court and pulled up just short of the rim to flip a lob pass to Sean Williams, whose man had been forced to commit to Sun's drive.
At 6'9" he's enormous for a PG, but does a good job keeping his dribble low and his long strides helped him skip past smaller defenders a couple times. Still, there's a reason why you rarely seen point guards who are even 6'5"--they can't keep up on defense.
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Sanders and Gallon.
Tiny Gallon needs the D League at least the first couple of months of the season, if not the the entire D League season.
Tiny has emmense talent, and if over this next year he grows up and starts taking his job seriously, eat right, get definition in his physique, and work on his overall game, the kid could be a beast for years to come. If he remains Baby Huey, kick him to the curb and move on.
Sanders, along with Gooden, Bogut and Ersan form a very tough minded, physical, long talented group of bigs that is cetainly more talented than last season. Missing is that one big bruiser type body (Gallon), but again we are still better off now than last season.
At 15 Sanders is looking like a great pick. Nice job once again JH..
I got my first look at the two last night
And from what I saw I make these conclusions.
Tiny has talent, but doesn’t want to work to be better. He did get a lot of boards but a couple of those were from being a lazy defender and just staying near the basket. He;s definitely looking to shoot first, and not all that well last night. Totally agree that the D-League is the place for him.
Sanders on the other hand wants to succeed and be better. You can see the drive in him vs. Tiny, if you could clone the two you would likely hjave a super-star. Very active defender, he lacks a bit of instinct on offense, saw one break where he should have had a dunk but stopped and then went on to the hoop. That will come I think but he should be with the club in November for sure. Other than a nice stop-and-go move my James I didn’t see anything inspiring.
I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!
Whoa
Tiny doesn’t want to work to be better? Pretty sure work ethic is established off the camera.
Sanders does? Is that why coach Wolf kept yelling “ROLL” so loud at Sanders everytime he set a pick all they way through the fourth quarter? Just didnt’ seem to learn much through that game about rolling even tho I heard that more times than I heard the announcers speak. Point not being that Sanders isn’t learning, point being that it doesn’t happen during the game.
I love what I’m seeing out of both of them. They both have been getting a rediculous amount of undue fouls called on them.
by FearTheDeer on Jul 17, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Lazy D
That must mean he’s not as long or althetic as Sanders.
They both switch off their man when a pick is set and don’t get back on their man early enough. Sanders fortunately for him, has the length and athleticism to recover where Tiny doesn’t.
Rebounding Tiny sticks around for the boards, Sanders is flying down court when their are rebounds to be had.
Just in Tiny’s defense, for all the undue Tiny bashing.
by FearTheDeer on Jul 17, 2010 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Ok I didn't quite mean to be that harsh
But it seemed to me in the time that I watched that Tiny was more content to actually just hang around the basket rather than challenge or contest. I was wrong saying he doesn’t want to work to be better, how could I know that. I think I ws trying to say that it seems he hasn’t had to work that hard in the past(notice I said seems)and that he’s contenct to get by with his skills rather than hard wqork. It’s just my observation that’s all. I think he can be a quality player, he just seems a little less willing sometimes. And Sanders still needs to learn a lot, I don’ty think at this point I’d expect much more than 10-12 mpg from him, the reason I think we need a 3rd centre.
I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!
by CanadaBucks on Jul 17, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I have been responsible for some of the Tiny bashing. I want him to succeed and of course I’d like it to be with the Bucks, but I just have an unsettling feeling with him.
It could change. He hasn’t even really worked with Coach Skiles or Jennings from what I can tell. The Bucks’ culture could rub off and he could become an absolute beast. He’s certainly got more talent and sense than Joe Alexander, for example. He’s going to get a ton of rebounds, is faster than most would assume and some nights, he’s going light up the scoreboard.
There’s just something in his mannerisms that really has me worried. Zach Randolph.
by MadTown Hoops on Jul 17, 2010 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
i think both bashing or praising him at this point is stupid...
he is still very raw and unrproven and will be so for a while… have to reserve judgement on him for a while…
agreed its all just random guesswork and intuition......
lets get him into the system and then make a judgement……..there is somthing to work with and thats all you can ask at pick 47 I imagine…..the odds are against you in the 2nd round…..so he has to bust a nut just to stick maybe that’ll help…..
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
He seems to get along just fine with the coaching staff so far
i got the best coach any rookie can ask 4 coach Scott Skiles and the best coaching staff. they really taking their time to make become great
and the coaching staff is GREAT…
:i love coach sampson.. he like a big brother and a father.. god put me here 4 a reason
http://twitter.com/TINYGALLON23/status/18630102291
http://twitter.com/TINYGALLON23/status/18630164728
http://twitter.com/TINYGALLON23/status/18630384127
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jul 17, 2010 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Tiny Gallon and Twitter the permutations are endless.....
hilarious……do they also tuck him at night and read him a bed time story…..the guys enthusiasm is infectiously naive
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
They read him stories about Shaq and on occasion Glen davis
And Sampson sings him a lullaby. No wait, that’s a pretty disturbing visual…
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jul 17, 2010 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Really disappointed in Tiny's post game
I have been watching a bunch of summer league games and I have seen some big guys picked in 2nd round that actually have low post games.(see Derek Caracter and Samardo Samuels) Tiny needs a jump hook or some form of drop step, something that gets him going towards the rim.
This is something I was wondering about too
And it’s not just Tiny, it’s Sanders too. What is the purpose of Summer League?:In all honesty I’m not sure, is it to see what the players have, or to work on parts of their games? I would have thought that they would try to work on a post game for Sanders and Gallon, but I see both hoisting jumpers, some of them long-range. I just think Sanders with his body would be devastating with a jump-hook, why not work on that. Why would Micah Downs be hoisting 3 after 3, does he have a hope to make the team? Agree about Caracter I was advocating for him in the 2nd round, game looks a little more polished.
I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!
by CanadaBucks on Jul 18, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Sanders shooting a lot of jumpers might be due to his lack of strength in the post.
by Brick's house on Jul 18, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
True
But isn’t that why you try to develop a hook shot? With his wing span would be really difficult to defend.
I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!
I'm glad we know that he's a bad tipper
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
lets be fair the guy is likely to get cut....just being fiscally responsible
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
Could be a lockout coming!
Gotta save money this year…
by Frank Madden on Jul 17, 2010 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess my work...
…includes tedium. And required dedication to stuff that doesn’t matter. Or… matters only if one can keep one’s vision on the tiny (not Tiny) details.
But being an NBA coach in SL must be a grind. Plus being a lesson to the rookies that being an NBA player is a long forced march. 97% perspiration; 3% inspiration.
Not fair to compare Sanders to Gallon
Sanders was a #15 pick, Gallon may not have been drafted at all.
It's also not fair to assume
That the 15th pick is going to be better than the 47th. Lance Stephenson sure outplayed Paul George. They have to be compared because they are playing for the same position on the same team and thus competing against each other for the same minutes each night
by FearTheDeer on Jul 17, 2010 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
According to NBA.com
Magnum Rolle outplayed Stephenson, who out played George
by FearTheDeer on Jul 17, 2010 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
I didn't make that assumption
Just pointing out that expectations are different, if not partially based on their draft position. As far as Stephenson out-playing Paul George, again, this is the mistake we make by making conclusions based on a few Summer League games. These games are largely inconsequential when measured against long-term projections. At this point, I am not sure Gallon is necessarily competing against Sanders. I mean, technically they are, but we all know who is going to get the minutes.
The Draft is Over
Once the draft ends, I think it’s silly to make any comparison based on pick position. They are two players on the same team, vying for backup minutes at basically the same position. We’d better compare them.
by MadTown Hoops on Jul 17, 2010 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Tiny had a rough night
Just watched the game, wow Tiny couldn’t get a break. In his defense some of the calls against him were phantom whistles. 1 for 6 with 8 turnovers, ouch. They have got to get him to use his power on the block. On the plus side, I thought his effort was pretty strong, he wasn’t pouting and was playing hard. And its not a fluke that he rebounds the ball at an insane rate, his size and long arms allow him to just gobble up boards. I think he needs to have a good final game and hopefully get some confidence going.
Big men handling the ball so much away from the hoop?
Seems to b a trend with some of these higher-toutd bigs in the SL. Demarcus Cousins was all over the court last night in their game, trying to go one-on-one from the wing and key. Are coaches just trying to get as many touches for these guys as possible? Seems it could curtail their development. Anyway, just an observation.
Sanders was pretty much Sanders
Great first quarter when the team was actually looking like a team, it all went downhill after that and Sanders got stuck kind of trying to go one on one a few times that didn’t work out. He has some toughness though, I loved when Varnado blocked his jumper and then he got the dunk and stared him down. Sweet revenge. Skiles must have been reading our board again and decided to acquire another PG in Sun. He had a nice run. Back to Sanders, he can really cover up some ground on the defensive end, this was the second time I’ve seen him come from the FT line down to protect the rim on baseline drive and just gobble up the shot.
Im pretty happy just to have both guys on board......
think they both have talent and summer league is just about getting them into the system and seeing what they can do and the huge amount of stuff they obviously need to work on……..
its exciting just to have a couple of young big guys with potential to bring something to the squad….obviously Sanders being the guy the management and coaching staff want to bring along a bit quicker, so far its been pretty decent from him, the potential to contribute is definitely there, cant wait to get these guys against the Bucks experienced big guys so they can really find out what its about
would have been cool to see abit of Hobson just to get a glimpse what he is like
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
Tiny both coachable & uncoachable
I think he’s likely to be coachable because he seems like a decent sort who’d like to do well.
At the same time, I think he’s uncoachable in that he’s probably the opposite of hear once, do right away. I don’t know if he can take instruction and use it to change his game. I think he’ll have to “fumble” his way to getting better. Gradually, with lots of coach frustration along the way.
He’ll likely be one of those guys who doesn’t really do what you want him to do, but does enough in his not-so-self-aware-way to be useful. And every-so-gradually gets better. He could become a rock for this team. Something to depend on; something you can’t really change.
Sun Yue
Just the kind of player I’d like to get enthusiastic about. But his 1st game leaves me thinking he doesn’t have enough talent to matter on an NBA squad. If he learns his team like a Rhodes Scholar, and if he’s terrific at using knowledge for anticipation, he might prove me wrong. Tempted thought just to see this as a small step to give the draft choices Something to work with.
Just went through the experience of a rerun of last night’s game. If the real Bucks team is notable for trying like hell to play the right way, the SL team is notable for showing nothing team-wise. I suppose a team can’t play with passion when it can’t visualize doing well.
This from Truehoop
The best descriptor for Larry Sanders? Grown-up. Sanders knows his way around a basketball court. He’s a vocal, standout team defender who knows where and, more important, when his help is needed. Offensively, he sets up low on the block — primed for the deep catch — and wins every race to the rim in transition. When he steps out to 17 feet, Sanders launches a face-up jumper with an air-tight rotation on the ball. Sanders may never be a Top 5 power forward in the league, but his fundamentals suggest he’s going to be a pretty effective player for a very long time.
If it makes you feel any better
He didn’t too much against the Wizards today.
by Frank Madden on Jul 17, 2010 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions
hmm so I take it we can throw all summer league performance out the window?
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
You must be selective in which performances you throw out, so that whatever you say is airtight.
by MadTown Hoops on Jul 17, 2010 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions
do they hand out a summer league MVP? If McGee gets it all bets are off.......discount everything
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
Nate Robinson got his jersey retired two years ago
Happened right in front of me…everyone in the gym was confused.
by Frank Madden on Jul 17, 2010 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions
seriously??? Is that like so he wouldnt come back? thats hilarious
good old Nate……one of a kind……kinda funny that he found his perfect home on the C’s…..Shrek and the Donkey……..Rivers used him perfectly in the playoffs though
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
I want the Bucks to retire Gadz's number
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jul 17, 2010 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions
They hung up his jersey on the last day...and then as the last game was ending they took it down.
by Frank Madden on Jul 17, 2010 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
surreal.....
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
Not really, but we have a Fonzie statue. Oh, and the Black Holocaust Museum. We have good river, good lake. The art museum was designed by the dude who designed the Opera House in Sidney. Milwaukee’s pretty great.
by MadTown Hoops on Jul 17, 2010 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions
you had me at Fonzie statue
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
From David Thorpe
Every NBA team needs at least one Larry Sanders on the roster. He combines great energy and amazing athleticism with a better-than-expected feel for the game. He’s far away from even being good on offense, but he won’t get in anyone’s way on that end because he does not define himself as a scorer. Sanders should be among the top 10 rookies in PER all year, taking nothing but easy shots while doing everything else well.
Hopefully he doesn't take anything but "easy shots"
I know he’s working on his game and doing stuff in Vegas he wouldn’t normally do, but he does seem like a guy who prefers jumpers to hook shots.
by Frank Madden on Jul 17, 2010 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions
It’s too bad, because with his long arms he could work the Sky Hook and just decimate opponents. His form is decent and I don’t think he’s the greatest at hitting free throws, so maybe it’s better if he works his midrange game. Bogut will be clogging the lane anyhow.
by MadTown Hoops on Jul 17, 2010 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions
someone should tell him when tour 6'11 its alot easier to put the ball in the hoop from 2ft away rather than 15ft
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
this is totally random but I just realized that you were from Australia BJ's when I went to look at your profile pic...
ever think of making it to Milwaukee for a Bucks game? The Eastern Conference finals would be as good of a time as any since we are a lock to get there…
been living outside australia for awhile now......
first on the list is back to australia for the AFL grand final…..
second is the Bucks……and unlike Josh Smith Id like to check out the Milwaukee scene :)
now If i could only get a day off ;)
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
Happy Days was set in Milwaukee right? They have like a museum there?
I was always Tom Bosley fan after his turn as the sheriff on Murder She Wrote
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
Not really, but we have a Fonzie statue. Oh, and the Black Holocaust Museum. We have good river, good lake. The art museum was designed by the dude who designed the Opera House in Sidney. Milwaukee’s pretty great.
by MadTown Hoops on Jul 17, 2010 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Around the web on Sanders
Kevin Arnvitz over at espn on Sanders after this game,
“The best descriptor for Larry Sanders? Grown-up. Sanders knows his way around a basketball court. He’s a vocal, standout team defender who knows where and, more important, when his help is needed. Offensively, he sets up low on the block — primed for the deep catch — and wins every race to the rim in transition. When he steps out to 17 feet, Sanders launches a face-up jumper with an air-tight rotation on the ball. Sanders may never be a Top 5 power forward in the league, but his fundamentals suggest he’s going to be a pretty effective player for a very long time. "
by puremisery on Jul 18, 2010 8:24 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
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