Depth of talent in the US.
by McTuck on Jul 26, 2010 7:33 PM CDT
27 comments
The recent draft and subsequent discussion about Big Ol' Tiny have had me thinking there is something wrong with the talent development in the US or that the draft process is not working correctly.
How can the draft process select only 60 players and only 30 of them are seen as actual prospects and the remaining 30 are not guaranteed a place on the roster.
Of the 10's of thousands of players in the college systems, I find it amazing to think that only 60 players a year are good enough to be selected for a team! The 2nd round picks should be good enough to secure a roster spot and playing time, but this is not the case, so it seems to me that there is a development issue in schools.
In Australia we have things like the Victorian and Australian Institutes of Sport that find the best talent in various sports and give them intensive coaching, that is why for a country with only 19mil population we are one of the most successful in world sport. I think the US college Basketball program needs to look at how it is developing players, your Olympic & World Championship record of late is a telling example of how you are in decline. The European nations are getting ahead of you.
Part of this is that your overall system doesn't team team play, it is more about individual play, being the man. That is why teams that play together, play defence and are not reliant upon one person (aka LBJ @ Cav's) can win chamionships.
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Two things I see
Small rosters-15 X 30=450 players in the NBA if you add 30 every year thats 7% turnover
No minor leagues-Other sports draft for minor leagues (MLB, NHL) and NFL has taxi squads
I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!
Read my mind
I think the roster size thing is the primary factor. If NBA careers had shorter lifespans or rosters were bigger then you might expect to see more turnover and thus more rookies making an impact each year, but I’m not sure it really is a huge problem with the US in particular.
And to be honest, if international development models were significantly better then I’d expect to see more non-US players excelling in the NBA. It seemed like there was a sentiment earlier in the decade that a huge influx of foreign stars was coming, but it hasn’t really materialized. I would say that European leagues have improved, so the base of international talent is overall better, and more quality talent is staying abroad rather than coming over to the NBA as soon as possible. But even with basketball growing in popularity internationally (everywhere but Oz?), the proportion of international stars in the NBA doesn’t seem to be changing. Despite guys like Pau, Dirk, Yao and Manu coming over in the early part of this decade, the new stars of the past five years or so have basically all been American.
It might be a case where Europe is better at developing role players because of the more team-based concepts you find internationally, but that might also help explain why the US continues to churn out the real stars.
by Frank Madden on Jul 26, 2010 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I suppose the key point I was trying to get across is that there is very limited number of truely talented players that get drafted, I would expect that due to the volume playing college ball, every player should be able to come in and have an impact.
Impossible
Every player is a really good basketball player, but when you are playing with the best, being really good isn’t enough.
Another factor is
That College/Universities have different goals that might contradict each other. A school wants to win to get more alumni support or win to get Tournament noteriety which may not be conducive to player development i.e. to be NBA ready. For a football example I would say a team that runs a veer offense is not getting their QB to be NFL ready as he is not running a pro set. I’m sure there are similar hoops examples but I can’t think of one off the top of my head.
I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!
I guess I was trying to say
That colleges and universities(maybe I should say most) are not in the sole business of developing NBA ready talents.
I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!
Worlds
As far of winning the Worlds, I don’t see it as a matter of the competition being better than the best of the U.S. There was a period of complacency where the best NBA player’s weren’t playing in the international competition as exemplified by this year’s team. The only guy in the all-nba 1st-3rd team playing is KD.
Countries like Spain/Argentina have definitely gotten good enough to compete in a one-off type setting
Combine the international rules with a good base of foreign talent and it’s not surprising that the US doesn’t automatically win international tournaments. I’d feel better about our chances if these were all best-of-seven type tourneys, but anything can happen when it’s single elimination. And we all know that there are diminishing marginal returns to having a bunch of superstars on one team.
I do think it’s interesting that,as Palomba mentioned in the Delfino thread, Argentina has not developed any real new talented in the past five plus years. Spain has done much better in that sense.
by Frank Madden on Jul 26, 2010 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Italy hasn't been half bad either
Gallinari, Bargnani, Belinelli…
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jul 26, 2010 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions
It seems there are more French players coming into the NBA lately, too.
I just looked it up on NBA.com http://www.nba.com/2009/news/10/27/international.players/index.html,
There are more French players in the L than any other country outside the US. Who would have expected that 10 years ago? Some of those players were born in Guadaloupe or Marinique, but the French system seems to be pumping out NBA players
by Brick's house on Jul 26, 2010 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I sure like Nicolas Batum.....one that got away from Morey
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
Always wanted to know...
…if the correct pronunciation of ‘Batum’ was ‘Bai-tum’ or ‘Ba-toom’. Have heard commentators say both. Anyone have the answer?
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 28, 2010 4:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Ba-Toom
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
courtesy of..........
http://trailblazerscentercourt.blogspot.com/2008/06/nba-draft-pronunciation-guide.html
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
Thank you kindly my good sir!
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 28, 2010 7:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Is it just me or
Is it cyclical for countries. Germany had a bit of a run in the 80s with Blab, Welp, Schrempf, and Vandeweghe but other than Dirk there’s been nothing since
I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!
...don't forget Kaman (not that he's been a German for very long tho...)
I agree about the cyclical nature of ‘it’ countries with players in the NBA.
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 29, 2010 2:02 AM CDT up reply actions
I would exclude guys who were developed in the US
Players like Kaman don’t say anything about German basketball’s youth development, just as CV and Al Horford don’t say much about the Dominican Republic.
by Frank Madden on Jul 29, 2010 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, 'twas more of a tongue-in-cheeker ;)
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 30, 2010 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions
It's difficult to guess how things will develop in the future
but maybe US problems won’t be related so much to the lack of players but to the lack of team playing. When things got a bit nasty in the end of the eighties was easy for Team USA to catch up in Barcelona: Magic, Bird, Jordan, Stockton & Malone, knew team fundamentals. If this “join the stars” strategy a la Miami keeps going on, well, maybe, in ten years from now Spain, Australia, Italy or Brazil will start beating USA in any kind of tournament system. I have some experience on this being a soccer fan from Argentina: having Messi and some other of the world best playersin last World Cup didn’t keep us away from loosing miserably in semifinals to a real team like Germany .
D-League??
Isn’t that what the D-League was made for? I mean think about it, its like in the MLB, minor league prospects don’t always start out in the bigs (unless your initials are S.S. and you play for the Nats…), but have to work their way up. Most NBA teams aren’t even maximizing the D-league’s full potential yet..
"Furry walls, o furry walls.."
Beat me to it C*!
Just because teams don’t LIKE to utilise it doesn’t mean that’s not what it’s for.
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 27, 2010 1:40 AM CDT up reply actions
So...................
Perhaps make bench size a max 10 players, 12 at the most and if you are not on a long term injury list you HAVE to be assigned to your D-League club.
I know players like Patrick Mills, Nathan Jawai (you can tell I am an Aussie hey!) would do well to go back down, put up huge numbers and force their way into a line up, and get real minutes.
So yeah, perhaps cut the bench size to develop talent.
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of teams bristle at having to pay to support the D-League
Given the roster limits, it’s easier to take a flyer on a new guy (with all-important potential) each year than it is to wait for a guy to develop in the D-League.
Ironically, I think baseball owners are extremely jealous that the NBA and NFL have a development league (NCAA) that costs them nothing.
Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.
yeah there definitely seems to be some stigma attached to the D League
maybe they shouldnt call it the D League it seems like your getting a fail automatically……but definitely it should be seen as a feeder system to the big boys, a place where players can learn their trade and develop their skills and games, with an aim to moving on up
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
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