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Putting the Bucks' summer spending in context

FanHouse: Owners Had No Choice But to Pay Up in Free Agency
Tom Ziller with a must read over at FanHouse, using the Bucks as a case study or sorts in how the NBA has become a pay-to-play league. 

Milwaukee needs to do better to get over the hump and truly contend in order to make some money for owner Sen. Herb Kohl. And to do that, they really have to spend money. Salmons, a free agent, had to be re-signed. There goes $39 million. The offense needed a serious jolt, even with Salmons returning. There's the trade for Corey Maggette, due $30 million over the next three seasons. The frontcourt needed a great rebounder and low-post threat. There's our lightning rod Gooden, signed for the full mid-level exception.

Those three players alone earned combined commitments of $103 million from Kohl and the Bucks. And that's really not out of line with what most teams have done when approaching the conference elite. To go from "playoff team" to "contender," you simply have to spend this sort of money.

It's been easy to scoff at the size of the deals being dished out this summer, but the more we saw the less we could mock them. These deals could still end up looking ugly if a lockout brings the cap way down, but it does seem like the market reference point has moved. There were still some seriously idiotic deals--Joe Johnson, Rudy Gay, and Travis Outlaw get my top votes--but teams looking to improve found few bargains to be had. Jon Brockman is the only new Buck who might look like a bargain a year from now, but the Bucks were never going to find cheap solutions by adding veteran talent. That's not a criticism, just the way the game works. More on the Bucks spending habits after the jump...

Star-divide

Hollinger: Bucks among offseason winners
John Hollinger has been more pragmatic (read: he has a better sense of long-term context) about the Bucks' summer than most, so it's not surprising that he lists the Bucks among the summer's winners. 

Drew Gooden was another solid get, providing a massive upgrade from the likes of Kurt Thomas and Dan Gadzuric a year ago. Ideally his deal would be a year or two shorter, but given what other teams paid for frontcourt talent, the Bucks still got a good price. Meanwhile, retaining Salmons was crucial, albeit unfortunately expensive in this market. Remember, teams over the cap have an incentive to overpay their own free agents since it's impossible to replace them, so from that perspective Salmons' price makes sense.

That point about teams re-signing their own free agents is especially important, which also made it interesting that the Bucks didn't seem too worried about letting Ridnour walk. Fortunately they got Keyon Dooling for the BAE, but they could easily have gotten stuck with table scraps for the same price. And in case you're wondering, July 27 is "Bucks spending rationalization day." I kid, I kid...

Aldridge: Offseason rankings
David Aldridge has the Bucks at #7 on his list of offseason winners.

Every few years, owner Herb Kohl dips deep into his wallet, as he did when he gave George Karl $7 million a year to coach and paid big bucks to maintain the Glenn Robinson-Ray Allen-Sam Cassell trio. Kohl must feel it again, because he not only paid up to keep Salmons -- a trade deadline godsend from Chicago -- but he OK'd major money from Gooden, who's bounced through the league for most of his career, and the remaining three years and $30.7 million for Maggette, whom the Warriors couldn't wait to unload. But the Bucks finished next to last in the league in free throw attempts last season -- 833 fewer than league-leading Denver. And Maggette has been in the top10 in the league in FTAs five times in his career, including last season. Milwaukee's defense (seventh in points allowed last season) should only improve with the high-flying Sanders leaping all over Bradley Center.

I really like Aldridge in general, but a couple things I'd point out here. First, the Bucks' total payroll didn't suddenly spike this summer, and it's unfair to imply that Kohl is a cheapskate who only occasionally gets frisky with his wallet. In reality the Bucks are in better financial shape now than they were last year, and next year they'll be in even better shape if they let Redd expire.  

As an owner it's difficult to "dip into your pockets" every year because of the way the cap is set up, and the Bucks are a good example. Only a handful of teams gladly blow through the luxury tax limit each year, and the Bucks are like most other teams in that they've been spending right up to it in recent years. The problem was that guys like Redd, Simmons and Gadzuric ate up huge and often injured/unproductive chunks of the Bucks' cap number over the past three or four years, leaving them little flexibility to use the MLE and forcing them to be extra choosy with their own free agents (see Ramon Sessions and Charlie Villanueva). It's easy to look at this summer's spending as out of character, but that's what you can do when you're not overpaying guys who don't play.

Second, can we please stop using raw points as a means of offensive and defensive proficiency?  I realize the mainstream media gets nervous using anything pace-adjusted, but seriously...this is stats 101.  

Basketball-Reference.com: Who Ruled the Top Defenses in 2010?
Speaking of advanced metrics, our man Brick's House emailed over a cool link from Basketball-Reference. I generally use points/100 possessions as my simple metric for offensive and defensive efficiency, but they've taken it a step further by adjusting for opponent strength (ie teams don't play the same opposition because of unbalanced schedules) and then segmenting individual player performances against the best and worst defenses. Some interesting findings for Kobe, Wade and LBJ.

I'll let Brick summarize the Bucks' side of the story:

"What it seems to show is that the Bucks had the 4th best defense last year, that Maggette and Brockman are effective offensive players while facing above average defense, and Jennings was not an effective offensive player against any defense, but was especially dreadful against good defense."

Pretty much. 

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I wonder what comes across the National Media Sports Writer's heads...

“I need to write something bad about someone, and it’s not going to be about anyone in a major market… I better write something bad about the bucks… yeah, they suck”

Go Beer, I mean Bucks

by Take Back Our Bucks on Jul 27, 2010 8:40 AM CDT reply actions  

http://www.instantsfun.es/khaaan

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 27, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm more of a Timberwolves fan than I am a Bucks fan

And from my perspective, Kahn’s done quite a bit better than most people think, but he has obviously made some questionable moves as well. Kahn has a plan in mind and he is moving towards it. Whether it’s the right one or not is a question that we will need to wait to see answered. For some reason (possibly Simmons and possibly because he is a condescending personality), people seem to dump on him no matter what he does. Some of it deserved, most of it not.

by MikeMN on Jul 29, 2010 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hammonds smartest move this Summer may not have been a move at all.....

Letting Ridnour walk was kind of a big deal, IMO.

1. – They didn’t overpay – and they sure could have, considering how much JH like Luke – not to mention that Luke was great for us last year.

2. – JH would have had to pay close to what LAL/MN offered LR to keep him…. instead, he got a player w/ similar offensive skills to Luke and WAY better defense/size – for half the price & length of contract!!

Dooling might not be the pure PG that LR is – but considering their contracts, I’ll take Dooling.

So while some may question the Gooden & Salmons deals – [i dont] – JH made a very smart move by letting Luke go.

Remember when fans were mad he let Sessions & Charlie V walk?!! Hehehe : )

by victor s on Jul 27, 2010 10:37 AM CDT reply actions  

Yeah, he screamed contract year phenomenom. Any guy with his size that wants to rain threes is in trouble in this league.

by MadTown Hoops on Jul 27, 2010 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I thought we would have learned that with Yi ;)

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jul 27, 2010 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dirk?

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 27, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dirk has the same amount of rings as Charlie and Yi ;)

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jul 27, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe they should give out rings for winning the conferences

Since championships are so rare

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 27, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

or at least a giant panda

dont you get a banner for winning the conference

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jul 27, 2010 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

True

But I prefer a giant Panda.

The nice thing about the Bucks only winning one championship is that the Banner in the BC is huge. ;)

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 27, 2010 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

makes it kinda special

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jul 27, 2010 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

and of course 1 is always better than none

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jul 27, 2010 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Indeed

I wonder if they’ll have room for next years championship banner? [knock on wood]

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 27, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

better run through a forest I think

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jul 27, 2010 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Who ruled the best defenses? Maggette and Brockman

Our incoming forwards look legit. Look at this post at basketball-reference.com. Paine rated players based on their performance against elite defenses and Corey Maggette and Jon Brockman are near the top. Among players who shot the ball more than 23% of the time, Maggette is ranked fifth, while Brockman is second among players with <18%Pos.

On the flip side Brandon Jennings is terrible against good and bad offenses while using a ghastly 26.5 %Pos. For perspective; against bad defenses, only Kevin Durant, Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade and LeJudas shot it more. In game, that translates to Young Buck jacking an ill advised three or long jumper with nine on the shot clock with Bogut chilling unguarded at the rim against the Clippers.

Sure we’ll probably win that game, but I hope this is a case of a rookie figuring things out and not a case of another point with skills but not the size to fully utilize them. If he learns how to dish it (I think Sanders will encourage him in this regard, we’ll have our re-stocked arsenal of finishers to crush the competition.

by MadTown Hoops on Jul 27, 2010 1:07 PM CDT reply actions  

I wouldn't read too much into Brockman

He wasn’t a huge part of the Kings offense. But with Maggette it its. I found a nice stat that Maggette has led the league in FTA/FGA four years in a row… And maybe even longer. The stat only went back to 2007.

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 27, 2010 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

also Maggette is highly ranked in the OTI stat

open teammates ignored

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jul 27, 2010 3:46 PM CDT reply actions  

lol +1

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 27, 2010 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, you mean this bloke? :)

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 28, 2010 2:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Couldn't resist again!

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 28, 2010 2:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

thats the one ;)

actually yeah thats a lot of shots going around Monta, Curry, Maggette……Im just guessing the Warriors as usual were up in the PPG league, top 3?

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jul 28, 2010 2:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Numba one

Monta “50 shots a game” Ellis and the Shot Burglar on the same team.. Add Stephen Jackson to that for the first 9 games and wow…

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 28, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not a lot of 24 second violations I bet

I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!

by CanadaBucks on Jul 28, 2010 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

That might be my favorite BCD creation

The look on his face and size of his head relative to his arms just kills me…

by Frank Madden on Jul 28, 2010 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Give me a coupla hours...

…and I’ll see what I can do ;)

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 29, 2010 2:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Couldn't find the Ellis/Cardinal block pic...

…but did find this headline from the Star Tribune from Nov 9, 2009…apparently Cardinal has had TWO blocks in his career ;)

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 29, 2010 4:12 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Wow! When I say a coupla hours...

…I mean EXACTLY a coupla hours…!

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 29, 2010 4:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Glad ya like it :)

Your comment was my inspiration ;)

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 30, 2010 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Classic

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 28, 2010 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Man, it will be fun to see the owners play poor after the season

“But we can’t afford these salaries we approve! Protect us from ourselves!”

Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.

by TheJay on Jul 28, 2010 8:49 AM CDT reply actions  

A lot has been made of the 2004 Pistons being the only title team w/ no real superstars....

But what about the 2007 Spurs??? I know they had Duncan, but he avg 20/11 that year – impressive, but not “superstar” numbers, IMO.

Same w/ T Parker & Manu….. great players w/ great numbers – but not really “superstars”

People also forget that the 2004 Pistons beat a virtual “dream team” in the Finals. Hehehe.

Just sayin… : )

by victor s on Jul 28, 2010 12:46 PM CDT reply actions  

Well...

Duncan is arguably the greatest Power Forward to ever play the game so if he’s not a Superstar I don’t know who is…

But yeah, other than him they only had Manu and Parker plus a pure enforcer in Bowen and a HOF coach…

"I want someone who will, you know, let me put it in or who [will] suck on it." – Donald Sterling

by Dow Jones on Jul 28, 2010 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bogut Update
Bogut Update: He has complete flexion in his elbow, is shooting the ball and there is no reason he won’t be 100% by training camp. -Hammond

http://twitter.com/Bucks/status/19757649576
Good news.
See, Hammond really needs to get a twitter. Just for kicks and giggles.

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 28, 2010 1:10 PM CDT reply actions  

two thumbs up.........

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jul 28, 2010 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Three if your feeling genorous

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 28, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

actually thats the best news of all the summer.........apologies to Darko who must be pretty pleased with himself

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jul 28, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

So must Kahn

He got the “best passing big man” he’s ever seen ;)

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 28, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

he is just a bit confused this triangle stuff is haaaarrrrrddd

the big guy gets stuck in the high post quite a bit so its just easy to pretend he is an over sized PG……that justifies the $20 million

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jul 28, 2010 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

'But KURRRT!' pleads Darko (in classic slavic accent)...

…‘You not have tolden me if ze triarngle is izozeles or ekalateral…’

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 29, 2010 2:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

"I am soon scalene the walls to leave your stadium."

Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.

by TheJay on Jul 29, 2010 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ha! :)

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 30, 2010 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

strong against strong defenses

Both Gooden and Ilyasova also did very well against top defenses, according to this study and also the other comparative study mentioned in the same link.

Hopefully people will stop thinking PF is a weak link on the team, that we’ve got several good players but no legitimate starting material nba PF, or that having extra bodies at the position is somehow a ‘balance’ problem that has to be remedied by dealing Luc or Ersan for backup talent at other positions. All it will take is one half-way serious injury to anyone in the frontcourt and we’ll be happy to have all these guys.

by istandan on Jul 28, 2010 2:22 PM CDT reply actions  

Yep

Gooden had games of 22/14, 16/11 and 20/11 against us last season alone.

by Frank Madden on Jul 28, 2010 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

woahh nice.....though what that says bout our previous PF's I dont know ;)

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jul 29, 2010 1:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe they were "lacking" defensively?

Or maybe they just didn’t play well at all. It happened at points; that’s why the Bucks lost to a TERRIBLE Pistons squad last year…

by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Jul 29, 2010 2:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Okay with this strong defense its a bit hard to qualify right?

how often a guys plays against the starters and the 2nd unit could be a factor as well right?

I think Gooden is a solid PF starter especially paired with a quality big man that sompliments his skill set by the way

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jul 28, 2010 2:39 PM CDT reply actions  

I agree w/ BJs about Gooden... he's a legit starting PF who put up good numbers playing next to a real C

The depth at PF is a bit puzzling…… but I think Brockman gets most of his mpg at C, and DG will probably play some C, as well – maybe even Sanders, depending on the matchup.

by victor s on Jul 28, 2010 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have a feeling

That Gooden is going to make a lot of head scratching plays this year, and might frustrate some people (including Skiles) on the defensive end. But if he keeps his head on straight, he should be a solid scoring option and rebounder.

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 28, 2010 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Most stats in any sports are open to interpretation

Which means for the most part they are meaningless. Gives fans something to talk about though. Only stat that really matters is W-L

I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!

by CanadaBucks on Jul 28, 2010 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Being the stat geek that I am, I wouldn't say they are meaningless

They affect the W-L. But yes, they are somewhat meaningless if you look at it that way.

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 28, 2010 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

No stat has much meaning on its own

I’m not a big fan of holy grail stats, but I think if you look at all of them you’ll learn a fair bit about a guy.

by Frank Madden on Jul 28, 2010 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

True but

There are just so many variables it’s hard to say anything definitive about stats.

I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!

by CanadaBucks on Jul 28, 2010 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Probably more true in Basketball then anything

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 28, 2010 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe hockey but ya

I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!

by CanadaBucks on Jul 28, 2010 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I only care about stats to play better fantasy ball.

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 29, 2010 2:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hey you Aussies going to be rooting for the Raps now?

My bad cheering not rooting.

I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!

by CanadaBucks on Jul 29, 2010 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Was about to ask why...then saw that Ando has been sent up your way.

Any team with an Aussie is my 2nd side ;) Last season, I liked The Rox, Blazers and Wolves for same reason. Dunno how he’ll fit with Bargs, similar games, tho Bargs takes more 3’s. That’s 2 Aussie Centers in 3 years for the Raps!

And yeah, definitely CHEERING. If you’re ROOTING in Oz, you’re actually ‘getting lucky’!

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 30, 2010 12:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

hahahaha

rolling on the floor here

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jul 30, 2010 3:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hopefully getting lucky...? LOL!

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 30, 2010 4:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

if laughing at Dave's jokes constitutes getting lucky then yes ;)

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jul 30, 2010 4:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good enough for me :)

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 30, 2010 6:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

or it could have been that they were showing TeenWolf on cable

I havent seen so many white guys on the court since I caught an Indiana game

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jul 30, 2010 7:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

oh for the innocent days...

they call they fat guy on the team chubby…..not like these days were they use cool names like tiny

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jul 30, 2010 7:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Or watched Hoosiers...

…though, that WAS set in Indiana… :)

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 30, 2010 7:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah I havent watched it funnily enough...

probably tell what my taste in films is like that im watching teen wolf

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jul 30, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dude, anything 'teen' and from the 80's...

..is all good in my opinion :)

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 30, 2010 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I knew that

Remember a teacher telling us that one year.

I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!

by CanadaBucks on Jul 30, 2010 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

I should have realised...

…most Canadians I’ve known have had some previous understanding of Australian vernacular :)

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 30, 2010 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Even though I'm not a pom

I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!

by CanadaBucks on Jul 30, 2010 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah! ;)

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 30, 2010 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Everything I know about Oz

I learned from the Bruces sketch on Python :)

I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!

by CanadaBucks on Jul 30, 2010 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hahahaha!

My fave Python scene is still ‘The Knights Who say ’Ni!’

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 30, 2010 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not the Knights Who say Ni?

I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!

by CanadaBucks on Jul 30, 2010 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes! And we want...

…a Shwubbery!

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 30, 2010 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I like some vocational guidence couselor..

…And Spanish inquisition. Oh, and let’s not forget the Lumberjack song…

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 30, 2010 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

We could really go on and on!

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 30, 2010 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I first saw the Holy Grail

In a theatre in 1977 or so, played hooky from High School to go. There were about 6 others in the movie, I think I was the only one laughing, and quite loudkly I might add. Also went to see the Life of Brian when all the Nuns were picketing the movie.

I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!

by CanadaBucks on Jul 31, 2010 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Especially in context

Football and Basketball stats rely more on context, hence, are more illusional, than baseball stats. An example in baseball is RBI. Some players are better at driving in runs, but it depends on who gets on base. If your lead-off hitter has a .400 OBP, the guys who hit behind him are gonna get a lot more RBI chances than if your leadoff hitter has a .319 OBP.

In basketball, “who” you play with has a huge effect on your stats. Granted, someone who does well for three teams ..well..a lot of it is because of his own skills. The poster child for being overrated is a guy like Derek Fisher. He totally depends on the players he plays with. Not that he isn’t a good player, but you put him on the Nets, and suddenly he is exposed for being the marginal, below average PG that you knows he is.

by tommyr on Jul 29, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

stats + savvy

My pref is to have someone with a sharp hoops eye look at the player, then look at the better stats (advanced stats?), and then comprehensively analyze the player for me. I guess that means I’d like it all. Stats, yes, but in context of how the player performs on court, how he’s used, and what he faces. Stats can point out overlooked significance. They can also falsely suggest bogus stuff.

by unklchuk on Jul 29, 2010 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

Watching someone play in basketball, especially in just a few games, can be revealing. Watching a basball player in a three-game stretch, not as much. Stats are much more advanced in baseball circles, but the other sports are catching up. First, you had Baseball Prospectus, then football and basketball.

by tommyr on Jul 29, 2010 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm cautiosly optimistic about Gooden

When he’s motivated, he can be a force – and his lack of D is a bit overblown, IMO.

As long as he scores, rebounds, and plays mediocre D, he’ll be fine…..

And if Bogut goes down [knock on wood] Gooden will be huge to have.

by victor s on Jul 28, 2010 3:09 PM CDT reply actions  

I think twelve

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 28, 2010 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Does anyone know if Kwame Brown is still a FA?

If he’d play for the minimum [or close to it], I’d take him in a sec

by victor s on Jul 28, 2010 8:12 PM CDT reply actions  

I don't think we have enough room for him

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 28, 2010 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

No thanks

He can keep his baby hands to himself, thank you

by MadTown Hoops on Jul 29, 2010 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

We don't have room

15 players on the Bucks if they sign Tiny and Hobson, which unquestionably will happen. However, Kwame is still a FA.

by FearTheDeer on Jul 28, 2010 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dang it... I was in the middle of posting that ;)

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 28, 2010 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not so sure they sign Tiny

I’m 50/50 on the guy, personally.

FWIW – Kwame seems like he’d atleast contribute a lil somethin this year….. I’d like him for cheap.

If Bogut goes down, you could do a lot worse than Gooden & Kwame at C, IMO. [better than KT & Gadz]

by victor s on Jul 28, 2010 8:37 PM CDT reply actions  

I'd give it about a 1% chance the Bucks don't sign Tiny

In other words, Tiny will be a Buck in fall. If anybody isn’t getting signed it’d be Hobson, who hasn’t played a moment for the team to even be criticized like this, however I’d say its about a 2% chance they don’t sign Hobson as well, which also means Hobson will be a Buck in fall.

by FearTheDeer on Jul 28, 2010 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tiny didn't make big impression...

A RealGM thread a few days ago suggested that management wasn’t happy with Tiny’s showing in SL. Didn’t like his predilection for drifting outside. Didn’t see enough motivation in him to drastically change his game. If he la-di-dahs his way through training camp, he could be gone. Win Now doesn’t really support long-term projects who have trouble focusing and learning.

But IMO that just means he might be cut or might make the team. I think he’s sufficiently passive as a personality that he’s going to regularly be given ultimatums. As long as he’s on the path to change (with admittedly Tiny steps) he’ll likely be here. If he can’t hold any focus, he’ll be gone.

They seem to think he’s a nice guy. But if he remains too much of a flibber-de-jibbet (is that a word?) he won’t make a Skiles team.

by unklchuk on Jul 29, 2010 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

WIN NOW

gives you the luxury of putting the developing players at the end of the bench or in the D-League. You can only have 12 active players on any given night. 3 of them are bench warmers regardless, I’d rather use those spots for injured players and developing rooks than anything else I can think of.

by FearTheDeer on Jul 31, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

And we can debate Kwame all we want

But there is less than a 0% chance that the Bucks are going to offer him a contract as the roster stands now.

I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!

by CanadaBucks on Jul 31, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Rather have Tiny than Kwame

I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!

by CanadaBucks on Jul 28, 2010 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Tiny is a Buck. I hope the best for him. Besides, I’d rather have my project big at 19 than 28.

by MadTown Hoops on Jul 29, 2010 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly....

We know Kwame is a stiff, there’s some hope for Tiny.

I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!

by CanadaBucks on Jul 29, 2010 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe.....

But JH said they considered Hobson to be a first rounder…… and they passed on Tiny twice in the 2nd round – plus Skiles wasn’t exactly glowing about him after SL….. and one of the JS writers said it was unlikely Tiny makes the team [for whatever thats worth]

I’m not sayin they’ll dump him, but I do think it’s better than a 1% chance they don’t sign him ; )

by victor s on Jul 28, 2010 8:48 PM CDT reply actions  

1.135%

I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!

by CanadaBucks on Jul 28, 2010 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Similarly

Several teams considered Tiny a late first rounder as well.

by FearTheDeer on Jul 28, 2010 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Forget Kwame

I’d rather Brockman play 5 than Kwame…..We can only have 15 guys active anyway.

I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!

by CanadaBucks on Jul 28, 2010 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry meant 12

Red and two others dont dress

I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!

by CanadaBucks on Jul 28, 2010 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

They picked Hobson ahead of Tiny

I can’t think of a better indicator of which guy they think more highly of. Things could have changed if Tiny had a great summer league, but his stock has obviously dropped in the Bucks eyes while Hobson simply hasn’t been able to play.

Victor, did anyone from the JS really say he was unlikely to make the team? I don’t remember anyone going that far, though Skiles’ quotes could be interpreted that way I suppose. I think they’re mainly just trying to motivate him and scare him into taking less guaranteed money.

by Frank Madden on Jul 28, 2010 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

And even if Tiny doesn't make the team

Still no room for Kwame

I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!

by CanadaBucks on Jul 28, 2010 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hopefully that's the case

I’d still like to have Tiny on the team. I think there’s a chance he could be a somebody. After all, “The Adventures of Young Buck and Tiny Gallon” can’t end so soon, can it?

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 28, 2010 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

What's that song...

‘…It’s only just begu-u-un…’

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 29, 2010 2:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

we start out walking and learn to ruuun

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jul 29, 2010 2:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

:) That's it!

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 29, 2010 3:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, whoever gets injured first!

by MadTown Hoops on Jul 29, 2010 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also, R.I.P Lorenzen Wright

I hardly knew thee. Literally.

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 28, 2010 9:28 PM CDT reply actions  

Sad story

The guy also had an 11-month-old daughter die suddenly a few years back.

by ZV on Jul 29, 2010 7:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah I was a fan of the Loy Vaught Clipps...and Lorenzen Wright was just starting out back then

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jul 29, 2010 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I personally would rather give the roster spot to Kwame than Tiny... atleast at this point.

But then again, I don’t think much of Tiny….

I’d rather have a proven backup than a ? like Tiny.

by victor s on Jul 28, 2010 10:04 PM CDT reply actions  

Yeah, but Kwame is 28 and still hasn’t proven anything. He’s 6’11" 270 and “in his prime” and he still can’t find a team? That’s a none too subtle warning of trouble.

by MadTown Hoops on Jul 29, 2010 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Classic +100000000

I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!

by CanadaBucks on Jul 29, 2010 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

all time classic

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jul 30, 2010 3:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Best picture I've seen all day.

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 29, 2010 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

HAHAHAHA! Awesome!

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jul 30, 2010 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why do you want Kwame

When given the rest of the roster the chances of him even suiting up as one of the 12 is negligible.

I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!

by CanadaBucks on Jul 29, 2010 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

BTW, Weltman is coming back!

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;ylt=Ap3PsC2ULUFVWmGFoETFPi8vLYF?slug=ys-blankssuns072910

That’s right, he was given the chance to be Phoenix’s GM, but he wanted to stay in Milwaukee!

by MadTown Hoops on Jul 29, 2010 7:18 PM CDT reply actions  

Woohoo!

Hammond’s right hand man will be here longer…

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Speedingtime on Jul 29, 2010 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions  


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