No Room for 'Melo in Milwaukee
Today we're pleased to bring you a special feature from Dan Sinclair, writer of the excellent Where 55 Happens. You may also recognize Dan from a number of great FanPosts he's written here at Brew Hoop, and you can follow him on Twitter @dan_sinclair.
The Nuggets have apparently given up hope of retaining Carmelo Anthony and are now looking to see what kind of deals can be made. As such, a couple teams have been scrambling to put together packages in hopes of landing the star forward. For now, the Nets, Kings, and Timberwolves have been identified as the most likely partners in a deal for Carmelo.
This is perhaps an unfortunate revelation to some Bucks fans. Glancing around some blogs and Twitter, there seemed to be a significant amount of interest in acquiring the All-Star. For most, the thought was that even one year of service from Carmelo would push the Bucks up to the same level with some of the other "elite" teams in the East. So should we hold out hope that Hammond can assemble a package and grab Carmelo away from the Mile High City? It's a tougher question than I originally thought. A closer look after the jump.
Denver has indicated that, should Carmelo depart for a land with thicker air, they want young players and draft picks in exchange. The Bucks' had a number of draft picks (albeit mostly second-rounders) they could have included, but turned most of those into players this past offseason. As for young talent, there just isn't much to be traded. Since both teams are over the salary cap, the 125% rule applies, meaning salary dollars need to match up closely. This essentially requires that the Bucks include Michael Redd's expiring contract in the offer, meaning that asset will be unavailable around the trade deadline when it's value might be highest. So what kind of package could Milwaukee offer?
- Redd's EC/Ilyasova/1st-round pick for Carmelo Anthony - Essentially swapping Ersan for Carmelo and taking ourselves out of next year's draft. Not too bad, right?
Unfortunately, Denver is more likely to go after:
- Redd's EC/Sanders/1st-round pick for Carmelo Anthony - Giving up this year's promising first-round pick on a rookie scale contract for likely 1 year of Melo, plus no first-rounder next year. Not as great, huh?
And those are just the cheap options! If you were Denver's GM, would you be content with those deals? Wouldn't you want a whole slew of players and picks for your future-ex-franchise-player? In addition, it's important to remember that Milwaukee is very unlikely to resign Carmelo, so the risk of going all-in this season is worth considering.
But ignoring the logistics of the whole deal, should Milwaukee even be interested in Carmelo? Would bringing him aboard make the Bucks that much better? Consider what Melo brings to the court: High scoring, decent offensive rebounding, and lots of free-throws. I would contend that the Bucks already addressed their glaring free-throw disparity with the acquisition of Corey Maggette, even if he doesn't start. Were the Bucks to acquire Carmelo, it would severely temper the benefits of picking up Maggette. That's not to say a SF rotation of Carmelo-Maggette doesn't make me salivate, but is it worth giving up significant pieces?
What's more, there isn't any guarantee Melo would replicate these numbers in Milwaukee. Assuming a coach's system has some impact on a player's performance, I doubt he could reach those scoring numbers in the low-tempo offensive system Scott Skiles has in place. According to Synergy Sports, 19.5% of Denver's plays last year were isolation plays, compared to just 10.7% for Milwaukee. 36.5% of Melo's plays alone were isolation plays, and when you consider he scored on 45.7% of these plays, it seems like much of Carmelo's utility lies in just giving him the ball and letting him go to work.
John Salmons played a similar style for the Bucks last year (31.5% isolation plays), but this makes more sense when taken in the context of his mid-season acquisition. The Bucks desperately needed perimeter scoring and Salmons quickly became a top option on offense. Couple this inherent dependence on his scoring with a relatively small sample size and it's easier to explain that high percentage.
Of course, claiming that Melo would fit in Milwaukee simply because John Salmons did ignores the nature of the "zero-sum game" we're dealing with. Milwaukee traded for Salmons because he could be counted on to carry the brunt of the scoring load. If Melo steps in to do the same thing, we're now stepping on the feet of two of our biggest offseason acquisitions.
Still, we can't deny that raw talent has a lot to do with success in the NBA, and Melo is undoubtedly a talented player. His per-game and per-min stats show the kind of production he is capable of, and you don't make 2nd-team All-NBA without helping your team win lots of games. The issue is how efficiently he produces those numbers. We can gauge Melo's efficiency by looking at his USG and ORtg, which measure the percentage of his team's total possessions he used and how many points he scored per 100 possessions, respectively. Melo's 33.4 USG was third highest in the league last year, behind only LeBron and Dwyane Wade. His ORtg was 110, which is good, certainly, but not elite (meanwhile, John Salmons had a 116 ORtg in Milwaukee while playing, as described earlier, a similar style). Lots of players can surpass an ORtg of 110 while using a much smaller chunk of team possessions, although these players typically shoot and make more 3s than Carmelo. His career 3FG% of .308 is enough to justify maybe one or two 3s a game, but not much more. What really holds him back is the poor shot selection he often exhibits. According to Hoopdata.com, Melo attempted 7.4 shots per 40 minutes in the 16-23 foot radius from the basket, definitely the least efficient area on the floor to be shooting from.
Sound familiar? Jennings attempted over 4 shots per 40 minutes from this distance last year and made only 34% of them. Put the ball on the floor, man! Break some ankles! Take it to the hoop! Basketball!
What if Skiles was able to reign him in, though? The potential payoff could be huge. If Carmelo could scale back his USG, maybe Skiles and the rest of the team could similarly adjust to make it work. The graph below shows the effect such a change could have on Carmelo's game:

This "skill curve," adapted from Dean Oliver's book Basketball on Paper, shows how Anthony's ORtg tends to increase as he uses fewer of his team's possessions. Melo's eFG% shows a similar correlation. This is a common phenomenon for many NBA stars. It reflects the value of taking good shots and running crisp plays. What it means is that Melo could be a very effective player in Milwaukee (or anywhere, for that matter) if he adjusts his game. This adjustment would hopefully come in the form of fewer long 2-pt attempts, which would likely translate into more passing and a higher AST rate. See? Everybody wins!
Unfortunately, such an adjustment might have to be beaten into him with one of Tiny Gallon's shoes. Carmelo's career low in season USG was 28.5% in his rookie season, and he has topped 30% in the past 5 seasons. Even surrounded by legitimate offensive threats (Bogut, Salmons, hopefully Jennings!), that's just not his game. It's not as though he was the only scorer in Denver for all those years, either.
So it' a risk-reward consideration, one dependant on a number of factors:
- Do the Bucks have the assets to put together a package for Carmelo that eclipses anything another team might offer?
- Is there a spot for Melo in the Bucks rotation that wouldn't render some other offseason moves wasted?
- Could the style of play Melo brings down from the mountains be reconciled with Milwaukee's game plan?
- If he does fit in, is his production enough to justify mortgaging future seasons for a greater chance of success this year?
Carmelo is an exciting. talented player, and I'd venture to say that he'd bring tremendous improvement to almost any team he signed with. But the way I look at this Bucks squad, I just don't think there's enough room.
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My Take
I think they should go for it with some package revolving Redd, Ersan, and lottery protected (1st rounders) and throw in Gallon since it appears they aren’t going to sign him. Melo is a better trade chip at the deadline that Redd. Similar salary dump, working & better player. Gallon is a freebie. The Bucks only need their next few first rounders for trade bait anyways. Ersan is the only piece they would be losing. It already appears he’s the odd man out. If I was Ersan in two years, I’d sign contract with another team that had some room for me on the court.
Melo as an asset
Fundamentally, the teams willing to give up the most for Melo will be ones who expect that they can re-sign him, so in that sense there’s no reason the Bucks should be the ones offering the best deal to Denver. So while Melo is certainly a better asset than Redd, logically speaking I’m not sure why we’d be able to get a lot more value for Melo at the deadline than Denver would be able to get for him during the summer.
by Frank Madden on Aug 31, 2010 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Great, in-depth analysis!
Bravo Sir!
After reading this…who needs ’Melo?
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
I agree w/ FTD....
If the only player you’re really losing is Ersan – then do it!!
With so much youth, does Milw really need their first rounders for the next yr or two?
Redd, Ersan, and two first rounders for Melo…. nothing more. How can any Bucks fan not like that??? You’d be getting an all-star for pennies on the dollar.
Wow. Awesome writeup
Yeah, now that I look at it, I don’t think Melo would fit with the Bucks at all, even if we were by some miracle able to steal him. I think he and Skiles would be the worst coach-player combo in the league.
I used to think he’d be a good acquisition, but now I say leave him alone.
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
Maggette/Salmons vs. Carmelo
I don’t think anyone would argue our current wing scorers are more valuable than Melo, but in the context of a one-year rental the upside of Melo is somewhat limited given the personnel we already have and the type of player he is. If all you want is efficient scoring, then Maggette is actually clearly better—always has been. Salmons isn’t too far behind, and he’s more adept at creating offense for others as well. And while both of those guys will be declining more quickly given their ages, it’s not like we’re comparing Melo over the next four years vs. Salmons/Maggette over the next four years. And in case anyone was curious, Maggette also had a 116 offensive rating last year.
I don't view trading Redd, Ersan, and a first rounder or two as "mortgaging the future"
I’ll say it again – if you can get Melo for Redd/Ersan and a first rounder or two – do it!! Even if it’s only for this yr.
Sure, we already have a plethora of wing players, but none of them bring to the table what Melo does.
Don’t get me wrong – I’m not a big fan of Melo – but he is a force when he wants to be, and if the only active player we have to give up is Ersan – then it’s a no brainer, IMO. I’d even throw in CDR, if need be.
And as far as the questions of Melo working w/ Skiles – the same could, and has been said about CDR, Maggette and Gooden.
BTW – great post dsinclair!!
I think it's going to take more than that
If I can get Carmelo for nothing, then sure, I’ll take him. And while Redd/Ersan/1st isn’t exactly nothing, my gut says it’s still wishful thinking.
by Frank Madden on Aug 31, 2010 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
For those on the Melo won't help the Bucks win side, Melo at least will help the Bucks on the trade side
So say the Bucks retain Redd and Ersan and their future 1st rounders…are all that combined a better trade chip at the deadline than Melo’s play and expiring contract? Cuz IMO the least likely of those to be traded is Redd by seasons end.
So then the follow up is, why is it that I think Milwaukee can get more for Melo than Denver? I don’t, but what’s valuable in Milwaukee isn’t the same thing as whats valuable in Denver.
Yep - I agree it'll take more than Redd/Ersan and a couple of first rounders
But that’s my point – if they can get him on the cheap, it’s woth it, IMO.
And if they did somehow get Melo, they could do a S & T at the end of the yr, correct?
Yes, good point
At worst you get a monster trade exception.
by Frank Madden on Aug 31, 2010 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Need to give current team credit
I’m glad to see people are still talking about this. I tried to present some evidence for both sides, so keep those comments coming, it’s great to see how other people feel!
I would be shocked if Denver accepted a Redd/Ersan/1st-rounder for Carmelo. Their newly-inked GM should be run out of town immediately if that happens. The main point that dissuades me from wanting Melo is that even with his production, it’s more than one team can handle. If Carmelo comes in to Milwaukee, you’re pushing Bogut, Jennings, Salmons, and everyone else back a couple steps to make room. At that point you’re jeopardizing the development of Jennings and Bogut as the primary pieces in Milwaukee, and seriously decreasing the value of the other players we acquired this summer.
Even with Melo, I don’t think the Bucks can get to the Finals out of the East. The top 3-4 teams are just too good. Thus, I’d rather roll with what Hammond has put together and bank on using Redd’s EC later.
Well said...
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Jacob Grinyer on Aug 31, 2010 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I disagree about the top 3 - 4 teams being too good
1. If we got Melo and Ersan was the only active player we lose – I think Milw would have to be considered ATLEAST a top 3 team in the East, IMO.
2. The Nuggets had the Lakers on the ropes in the WC finals [2009?], and I think we have more overall talent & depth than that team had.
I’m just sayin that if the Bucks got Melo, they would have to be considered a legit contender in the East…. and LBJ would have a hard time covering Melo all game, and then CM off the bench : )
Agree with Dan
There’s no way this trade ever happens IMO, Houston and/or the Clips would be able to offer an lot more. As well A+B doesn’t always =C. Chemistry is an important if hard to place characteristic of a successful team. Would other players think that melo is getting all the headlines yet he’s just a rent-a-player?
The one thing I would argue is that the Bucks can’t get out of the East with or w/o Melo. I think they can do it either way, shite happens as they say, I’ve seen inferior teams win Championships or at least play for them, anything can happen.
Anyway bottom line I would say no to Melo, and it’s really a pipe dream if you think he can be had for that deal.
I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!
Agreed on all fronts
Melo probably has one of the largest egos in the league and he’s only effective if you give him the ball as much as possible. Both of which I don’t think would work under Skiles. There’s also no way he’s on the same tier as Wade, LeBron, Kobe, Durant, etc.
(Also, random question. CB, are you also a Raptors fan? Just curious, don’t want to assume anything…)
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Jacob Grinyer on Aug 31, 2010 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
And I don't agree with the Melo is a better trade asset than Redd
Because if you’re getting Melo to help you in the playoffs you would be looking at a deal like TO got for Bosh or Cleveland got for LBJ depending on which teams Melo targets. You would be trading redd either prior to or at the deadline so you would have a lot more3 leverage as to which teams you could trade with, a contender might even want Mike at the deadline as insurance.
And yes Speedy I am a Raps fan, I live 30 miles east of Toronto but i was a Bucks fan first hence the dual allegiance.
I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!
Ah. Which team do you root for when they play eachother?
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Jacob Grinyer on Aug 31, 2010 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Milwaukee
I was crushed the year the Raps knocked the Bucks out of the playoffs.
I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!
Good to know ;)
And when did that happen? According to wikipedia, the Bucks never played Toronto in the playoffs…
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Jacob Grinyer on Aug 31, 2010 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee_Bucks_seasons
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Jacob Grinyer on Aug 31, 2010 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Was it 01-02?
Raps beat the Bucks in Milwaukee in the last game to knock the Bucks out? In February Bucks were among the top 4 seeds then it all fell apart, just not sure which year it was.
I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!
by CanadaBucks on Aug 31, 2010 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, yeah.
I’ll just have to take your word for it seeing as I was way too young.
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
And but for a Vinsanity missed jumper
It almost happened, would have been Eastern Finals and me in a no-lose situation.
I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!
My All-Time Bucks/raptors roster
Best starting 5 form player who have played for both:
Benoit Benjamin
Charlie V.
Michael Curry
Del Curry
T.J. Ford
Yuck!!!!!!
I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!
Haha
I remember waking up one morning to see that TJ Ford had been traded for Charlie V… I was surprised, to say the least.
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Jacob Grinyer on Aug 31, 2010 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions
And I screwed up
Delfino replaces one of the Currys.
I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!
It could have been a good trade for both teams
But it didn’t really turn out good for either.
I'm taking my talents to.......The Golden Arches!
Yeah
For a while everyone was saying the Raptors won it going away, then TJ almost was paralyzed and came back all emo and junk while CV was filling it up. But in the end the Bucks let CV walk and the Raps did everything they could to get rid of TJ. And so it goes.
by Frank Madden on Aug 31, 2010 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions
the moral of the story being............
when TJ Ford and Charlie V are the center pieces of your trade no one wins…..no one ;)
"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."
Ha!
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
by Big Crazy Dave on Sep 2, 2010 5:12 AM CDT up reply actions

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