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Darington Hobson signs, roster appears complete

Are we there yet?

The start of Bucks camp may still be 24 days away, but it would appear that we at least know who will be on the opening night roster when the season tips off in New Orleans October 27. On Friday, the Bucks finally signed 37th overall pick Darington Hobson, bringing Milwaukee to the maximum allowable 15 roster spots. Expect the Bucks to bring in some additional warm bodies just for camp, but the 15 contracts on the books mean no room for Tiny Gallon as things currently stand. 

Because the Bucks used their MLE on Drew Gooden, Hobson's deal can't be for more than the minimum-level for two years, which would pay last year's Mountain West Player of the Year $473,604 this season and $788,872 in 11/12. The JS implied the deal was guaranteed for this season, though it's not clear how much of the second season is guaranteed--assuming there is one.    

Star-divide

Among non-internationals, Hobson had been the highest unsigned second rounder, and it's worth noting that John Hammond's second round picks the past two seasons, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute and Jodie Meeks, were both signed in early July. Hammond also used part of the MLE to give Mbah a Moute and Meeks three year deals that paid them slightly more than the minimum as rookies, but that wasn't possible this summer because of the Gooden signing. That meant the only negotiating points with Hobson were whether the deal would be one or two years and how much of it would be guaranteed. 

I can't offer more than speculation on why it took so long, but it should be noted that NBA teams have to offer second rounders a minimum tender offer by September 6 or they become free agents. The groin injury that kept Hobson from playing in Vegas may have given the Bucks some pause about offering much guaranteed money. Hobson tweeted that his injury was "doing fine almost there" a week ago, but clearly a three month layoff from a groin injury is fairly serious.  

The other issue was how the Bucks wanted to fill out the roster--and how Hobson and Gallon fit into that. Brandon Jennings was the only point guard under contract when the summer started, and the signing of Earl Boykins suggested the Bucks weren't comfortable with just Jennings and Keyon Dooling manning the point. But Gallon's fate may have been sealed a few weeks earlier, when the Bucks parlayed Darnell Jackson's non-guaranteed deal into a sign-and-trade for Jon Brockman.

The Bucks would retain Gallon's NBA rights if he signed in Europe, but somehow I don't see that being the preferred route for him. The other obvious option would be trading Gallon's rights to another NBA team (likely for a future second round pick), though I doubt there's much demand for him at the moment given a) he's a ways from being NBA-ready and b) most teams have more or less filled out their rosters at this point. However, if the Bucks don't offer Gallon a tender offer by Monday they'll lose all rights to him. What's not clear to me is whether they can even do that--if it can be completely non-guaranteed then they have nothing to lose, but I'd guess they'd rather let Gallon walk than owe him money when they inevitably have to cut him to get down to 15 players on opening night. [Update: Just read Dan's comments on this at RealGM and it seems like they could just offer Tiny a completely NG'ed deal. But then they'd have to cut him at the end of camp to get down to the roster limit--you can guess Gallon would strongly prefer a trade now to that fate]  

And though Hobson is now in the fold, it's not clear what if any role he'll play as a rookie. Hobson excelled as a savvy point forward at New Mexico--he names Penny Hardaway as his idol and from his highlight reel bears a resemblance to fellow lefty Jalen Rose--but I would guess his size (6'7") and lack of top-shelf quickness would make it difficult for him to defend smaller perimeter players. John Salmons, Corey Maggette, Carlos Delfino, Luc Mbah a Moute and Chris Douglas-Roberts figure to be ahead of him at the 2/3 positions, and like Ridnour a year ago, Keyon Dooling could also get some run at the off-guard position. 

Barring injuries to those guys, Hobson figures to spend most nights on the inactive list with Michael Redd and Boykins. Then again, Hobson is also something of an unknown quantity to most of us at this point. Hopefully he's healthy by the start of camp and gets a chance to show his stuff in the preseason, but it's hard to say if he'll be able to make enough of an impression to crack a rotation filled with fairly proven veterans. The one guy Hobson could target is CDR, who hasn't proven himself as a consistent NBA player but figures to be plenty motivated entering a contract year. The D-League is also a possibility, but we all know the Bucks prefer to keep rookies in Milwaukee, where they can practice with the big club and work with the Bucks' coaching staff.

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Keep him in Milwaukee

Normally I’m a big proponent of the D-League, but I think Hobson is a guy you want to keep in Milwaukee so he can participate in practice with the rest of the team. Where Gallon had skills that still needed developing and weight that needed losing, Hobson has a pretty well-defined skillset. What he and the Bucks coaches need is a chance to see how those skills will work for him in Milwaukee, and that might be easier accomplished in practice. Still, the D-League wouldn’t hurt, but I like the idea of keeping him on hand.

by Dan Sinclair on Sep 4, 2010 11:57 AM CDT reply actions  

Agreed.

If the Bucks had their own dedicated D-League team then maybe they’d make some use of it, but as it stands they share Fort Wayne and have no direct control of the coaching their guys would get there. With Gallon it might have made some sense to keep him in the D-League just to keep him running and get him in better shape, but as you said, Hobson doesn’t have that problem. Probably makes sense to let him learn Skiles’ system and practice with the team to see if he can crack the rotation.

by Frank Madden on Sep 4, 2010 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

improvement needed

Sounds like a rousing vote of confidence in favor of an expanded D-League system if you ask me! Minor-league basketball, your time has come!

by Dan Sinclair on Sep 4, 2010 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

It’d be nice if every pro team could have its own D-League affiliate, but I’m not sure there’s enough talent to make a 30-team league competitive enough to be worth the time—at least not for the peanuts they get paid.

But I think there’s also the question of whether basketball needs a minor league system at all. In basketball you simulate game situations every day in practice; in baseball you really can’t because of the nature of the game. So I think in a general sense the minors are much more necessary in a sport like baseball than basketball.

It’s not to say I’m anti-D-League—I’m glad it exists, if for no other reason than you have a large pool of players available to be brought up in case NBA teams need some emergency cover. But I’m less sold on its value for young players expected to develop into quality NBA players.

by Frank Madden on Sep 4, 2010 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Each D League franchise is so different that it’s hard to gauge the effectiveness of the entire league in a sweep. I think it’s telling that the most respected organizations and leaders in the NBA have their own D League affiliate. The Spurs, the Thunder and the Rockets have complete control of coaching, substitutions and the system. If the D League is used this way, to teach the system to young guys while at the same time giving them consistent minutes at their position, then it is a marvelous tool for player development.

If Minnesota had a plan, for example, the team could obtain it’s own affiliate and use it to teach the tricky triangle to the kids. The unfortunate fact is that the D League is often neglected because of the average owner’s miserly edict to save money rather than build a winner by any means possible.

Basically, the D League is like most things, you get what you put into it. There will continue to be mixed bag results until the NBA’s teams starts taking it seriously.

by MadTown Hoops on Sep 4, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

http://dleaguedigest.com/2010/09/03/making-sense-of-the-d-league-usage-grades/

Here’s a great post related to how well each NBA team has used the D League. As you can see, the vast majority of NBA teams have not even scratched the surface. Also of note are the teams ranked in the upper echelons (Rockets, Spurs, Thunder, Jazz Warriors). Each team’s unique system makes the D League an attractive place to develop young guys. Also, it would seem that autonomy is important in effectively using the D League.

What perplexes me is the number of teams from the same division that share a D League affiliate. It seems very counter intuitive, if not dangerous, that the Clippers and Lakers (or the Bucks, Pacers and Pistons) share an affiliate. Why send a player to a team that in a diabolical way might have incentive to misuse it’s own players?

by MadTown Hoops on Sep 4, 2010 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've always thought NBA teams are happy with the minor league they don't need to pay for

Also known as college. Do the Bucks have to pay to use the D-League (other than the player’s salary)?

Maybe he should play first base instead. That is, he should lie out there and we can step on him when we get a hit.

by TheJay on Sep 4, 2010 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not sure what the economics of the D are

They don’t pay the players much, so the NBA can’t be losing THAT much money on the deal.

by Frank Madden on Sep 5, 2010 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

That works for until folks are drafted, but what then? In the MLB, players can be stowed for years until they are ready or the team is ready for them(has a spot at their position). In this league, we’ll lose Tiny tomorrow for nothing.

It seems like the NBA has a double standard which negatively effects those from the States. A European player can be drafted before he turns nineteen and after that the team is likely to let him play for a few years overseas, saving money but also having no hand in a player’s development (see Rubio, Ricky). An American player is compelled to play in college. The college game is crap for development. Players play a lax schedule in a cushy environment, learning rules that do not apply to the NBA or the international game. Latavious Williams has shown that D League is not a realistic alternative. We need to modify the D League so that it is a true minor league system and an option to playing overseas. The so-called “Euro Stash” is becoming very popular with teams that can’t use a player now. Why can’t we figure out a way to stash them over here?

by MadTown Hoops on Sep 5, 2010 1:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

It’s an interesting argument. You’re right that good US players are at a disadvantage financially because we have the college system which the powers that be are not going to get rid of. Then again, for players with no hope of making careers out of the game (most of them), it’s probably not the worst deal that they get a college education (not that they all take advantage of it) for playing ball. I’d be in favor of equalizing the rules for the D vs. Europe as you suggest, but I think the underlying problem is that you can’t make a good career out of playing in the D-League like you could in Europe. And I think the same rules about making a tender offer apply regardless of where you’re coming from.

And I’m not sure that Europe has been the best training ground for the NBA either…watching the FIBA tournament has underscored to me that what it takes to be good internationally is often very different from what it takes to be good in the NBA. We all expected there to be a major influx of International stars after guys like Dirk, Yao, Manu and Pau came into the league, but it hasn’t happened. The only Euro-developed players in last year’s all-star game were drafted in ’98 (Dirk) and ’01 (Pau).

I agree that it’s convenient to get Euros in the second round since there’s no penalty for them not coming over, but on the flip side many of these guys never set foot in an NBA training camp. Assuming the Bucks don’t get anything for Tiny, I think that’s probably the Bucks’ fault more than anything. When they drafted him they knew he wasn’t a guy that wanted to go to Europe, and they had the roster spots to sign him. But it would seem their scouting failed them, because they saw him in college and had him in for a workout and still seemed very disappointed with what they saw in camp/Vegas.

by Frank Madden on Sep 5, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Jacob Grinyer on Sep 4, 2010 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

And we get the same announcers from the GreeK-Spain game

They’re too kind

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Jacob Grinyer on Sep 5, 2010 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

les blues

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Sep 5, 2010 1:35 PM CDT reply actions  

bless international basketball.......

the only place where Diaw gets described as a great player

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Sep 5, 2010 1:36 PM CDT reply actions  

That and Phoenix. Five years ago.

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Jacob Grinyer on Sep 5, 2010 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well it depends what you mean by great...

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Jacob Grinyer on Sep 5, 2010 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

true maybe great = chunky in international basketball

ahh Speaking of conditioning have to admire Turkoglu’s commitment… a model pro….how can you cramp before half time……in australian terms he has obviously been off in a good paddock

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Sep 5, 2010 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

wasnt Diaw skinny? he looks like he is 9 months pregnant

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Sep 5, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hahaha

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Jacob Grinyer on Sep 5, 2010 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

as the saying goes in the french team....

les verre est moitte vide whenever Diaw is around

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Sep 5, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow. Rainbow three by Ersan.

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Jacob Grinyer on Sep 5, 2010 1:47 PM CDT reply actions  

This Turkish frontline is so big and deep.

Three NBA players at the power forward and center positions, plus Turkoglu plays some four as well. Turkey running away with the game in the 2nd half.

by Brick's house on Sep 5, 2010 2:12 PM CDT reply actions  

Funny that every other team got bigger and worked on it’s zone in order to beat the U.S. and we got smaller players who can’t shoot in response. Why is Lamar Odom our stating center? My mind is thoroughly boggled.

by MadTown Hoops on Sep 5, 2010 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

I just worry that despite the brilliance of Durant, we’ll get bounced by the winner of Lithuania/Argentina/Brazil. That Brazil game gave a lot of teams a blueprint for our disaster. We don’t really deserve gold; considering the fact that we fronted a United States D Team (really B team is too nice to a team that features Eric Gordon, Stephen Curry and the sublimely terrible Danny Granger), we aren’t as prepared or cohesive as most units and we have a college coach. Really, as legendary as Coach K is, why is a college guy coaching NBA players in an international event?

I’m not rooting against the U.S., but if we win gold it would be an undeserved miracle.

by MadTown Hoops on Sep 5, 2010 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree w/ you about coach K - but Gold is Gold, if they do win it.

But it is a bummer the USA can’t get it’s best players to suit up for their country.

by victor s on Sep 5, 2010 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not just the U.S., of course. Each team is missing it’s best, from France without Parker and Beaubois to Argentina without Manu and Germany without Dirk (Strange, I just mentioned players that play in the State of Texas, ah well).

Turkey just might win this, as the hosts they actually brought their best. It’s laughable that this tournament is called the World Championship.

by MadTown Hoops on Sep 5, 2010 11:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

What exactly was Hobson's injury? And what was the severity of it?

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Jacob Grinyer on Sep 5, 2010 4:42 PM CDT reply actions  

anything to do with the groin is a serious one in my book

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Sep 5, 2010 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah man, you can only get by on so much speculation. I am ready to bury the summer of LeBro. Can’t wait to see how Sanders, Hobson, Maggette, CDR, Dooling, Brockman, Gooden and Boykins work with the team. Wow, did we really turn over half the team? This is going to be interesting.

by MadTown Hoops on Sep 5, 2010 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wonder if Hammond has a really long term strategy in mind. If you look at our roster, we are thin at Center. A young up and coming big in the league is Spencer Hawes, who incidentally becomes a restricted free agent next year. Hawes’ best friend is Jon Brockman. Now I’m not a fan of Spencer Hawes the person (he strikes me as a pretentious, conservative ass), but Spencer Hawes the player would be a great insurance policy and a pretty good backup to Bogut. With the Sixers scrambling to keep and probably overpay Thad Young, Hammond might see an opportunity.

by MadTown Hoops on Sep 5, 2010 7:00 PM CDT reply actions  

I'm interested to see the future of the SG/SF position....

Salmons – He’s really only signed for 4 yrs – and I see him gone after 3
CDR – biggest ? on the roster, IMO. Future starter, or traded before the deadline?
Delfino – He’s FA after next yr and will probably get overpaid by some other team
Maggette – Another big ?, he’s signed for 3 yrs, but who knows how he’ll fit in
Hobson – ?

Regardless, I think SG/SF is a position that JH targets in the next few drafts…. and probably C – a legit C to develop behind AB, no more PF/C hybrids.

by victor s on Sep 5, 2010 7:18 PM CDT reply actions  

The more I think about it, the more I like the Dooling acquisition...

He’s really the perfect veteran compliment to BJ off the bench – he’s bigger & stronger than BJ, plays great D, and good 3pt shooting – he’s also a great locker room guy, which can only help the chemistry & transition with all the new faces.

AND…. JH got him for cheap!! : )

Ridnour – 4yrs 16 mil w/ MN.
Dooling – 2 yrs 5 mil…. bahahahaha

by victor s on Sep 5, 2010 7:30 PM CDT reply actions  

Can anyone isolate Goodens stats when just playing C?

Unforyunately, we may see more of that than we thought – but let’s hope not.

by victor s on Sep 5, 2010 7:46 PM CDT reply actions  

He pretty much played his entire time with Dallas at C.

http://www.82games.com/0910/09DAL16.HTM#bypos

When you look at the by position per 48 minutes stats he was a pretty decent offensive player, but was also pretty awful defensively…If you scroll down you can see his on/off court stats which are…Horrible. I don’t know why that is, but, they weren’t that much better when he played at PF with the Clippers.

"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09

by Jacob Grinyer on Sep 5, 2010 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cool. Thanx!

Again, he’s still an excellent insurance policy for AB, IMO.

And he’s probably better than any “conventional” backup C that was available.

When you look at the PO series w/ Atlanta, lack of inside scoring was a killer for the Bucks – that won’t happen now that we have Gooden.

Of course, I hope he sees most of his mpg at PF next to a healthy and dominant AB : )

by victor s on Sep 5, 2010 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

rebounds!

He’s a good rebounder wherever he plays, and he has the potential to do a LOT of weak-side offensive rebounding off of Bogut when they play together this year. Good defensive rebounder too.

by Dan Sinclair on Sep 5, 2010 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

thats really where his value lies for me in Gooden.......

that bigger physically mature body next to Bogut at the power forward slot, and whilst that isnt an elite combo thats a standard above what most teams can offer as a starting package, a great rebounding duo, and as a combination a variety of skills and looks, Gooden has his brain fades on defense, and will take some poor shots, but he is fairly productive over his career over his 25-20 minutes and with the other guys in the PF slot thats alot of depth most teams would be envious of

"That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness."

by ILIKEBJ'S on Sep 6, 2010 1:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

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