NBA Free Agency 2011 Roundup: Central Division
by Dan Sinclair on Dec 12, 2011 8:00 AM CST
in Daily Notes
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PrintThe Milwaukee Bucks haven't been involved in Dwight Howard or Chris Paul trade rumors. They haven't amnestied anybody with a gargantuan contract (or a small expiring one...). But they've made moves, and the roster seems to be coming together fairly quickly, giving the coaching staff a near-full complement of players to work with in training camp.
Elsewhere in the NBA's Central Division, the commotion has been a little louder. Here's an update on the latest moves from Milwaukee's division rivals, beginning with the defending division champion Chicago Bulls. Much of the coverage comes from other member blogs of SBNation's NBA network. Be sure to check them out for all the latest free-agency news.
Chicago Bulls
Chicago Bulls center Kurt Thomas signs with Portland Trail Blazers - ESPN Chicago
Former Buck Kurt Thomas, the NBA's oldest current player, will not return to Chicago next season after signing a two-year deal with the Portland Trail Blazers.
Bulls GM says little on Howard, Hamilton - SI.com
Chicago has been pegged as the most likely landing spot for Richard Hamilton, whose contract was bought out by the Detroit Pistons (more on that with the rest of the Pistons news).
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Indiana Pacers
David West Signs With Pacers For 2 Years, $20 Million - SBNation.com
So, here's a bit of unfortunate news: Veritable Buck-killer David West is coming to the Central, joining the new up-and-coming squad expected to make noise in the division. West is coming off an ACL tear and he's not getting any younger, but there are few deadlier players in the pick-and-pop game.
Side-note: After the Pacers gave the Bulls some trouble in the first round of the playoffs last year, I scrawled a note on my whiteboard that read "this year's Pacers last years Bucks?". It remained there for months as I pondered whether the Pacers seemed like a team that could build on momentum, or if they might be a short-lived sensation like the "Fear the Deer" Bucks. There is definitely talent on the Pacers' roster--maybe not enough to make the Central Division anything more than "The Bulls and Co.", but they look like a solid playoff pick...sound familiar?
Pacers Try to Sign-and-Trade for OJ Mayo - Eight Points, Nine Seconds
The Pacers apparently aren't done yet, and after grabbing a new starter at power forward, Indiana has turned its sights on Memphis shooting guard O.J. Mayo. Details remain sparse, but definitely something to keep an eye on.
Jeff Foster to sign 1-year deal with Pacers - Twitter / @MikeWellsNBA
There's also this. Ok.
Detroit Pistons
NBA Rumors: Detroit Pistons waive Rip Hamilton, according to Free Press - Detroit Bad Boys
Richard Hamilton's departure from Detroit is currently being finalized, but the most interesting wrinkle is already being discussed: instead of invoking the amnesty clause to waive Hamilton, the Pistons chose to simply buy out his contract. Matt Watson at Detroit Bad Boys offers a pair of reasons as to why the Pistons may have chosen to do so.
Pistons officially announce Jonas Jerebko's return - Detroit Bad Boys
Detroit also extended the contract of Jonas Jerebko, who missed all of last season with a partially ruptured Achilles. Jerebko had a pretty solid rookie season and the Pistons were't about to let the promising big man get away.
Re-Signing Tayshaun Prince is a massive mistake... - Detroit Bad Boys
And in more disgruntled news...
Cleveland Cavaliers
Kyrie Irving and Tristan Thompson Sign Rookie Contracts - Fear The Sword
The Cavs haven't made many headline appearances either, but signing a pair of top-5 draft picks in one year is a nice, quiet way to drastically change, and hopefully improve, a team.
Cavaliers' Traded Player Exception Extended Until December 16th - Fear The Sword
Some relatively big news for the Cavs, however, is the extension of the large traded player exception they received from Miami in the LeBron James deal. The TPE's original expiration date fell within the lockout, so the Cavs were given additional time to make a deal.
Cavs Owner, Dan Gilbert Linked To Blocking Chris Paul Trade - Fear The Sword
The noisiest thing in Cleveland has been the owner of the Cavs, Dan Gilbert, whose open letter to David Stern regarding the original Chris-Paul-to-LA trade has drawn a wee bit of ire.
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Decisions and their Conditions....
David West…2 Yrs. @ 20 million.
Dunleavy…….2 Yrs. @ 15 million.
If we establish the premise that we (I know I would) rather have West on my payroll, then the question needs to be asked, “how could the Bucks have reconfigured the salary to make this signing possible”? Banter has ensued on the changing landscape that is Milwaukee making a choice like this seemingly doable with a move here, release there, etc.
I’ll need to ask those with more of a bussiness sense, cap sense, and related financial savey to help me with this. Or, am I so far off that the five million is NOT doable?
I’ll hang up and listen for my answer. Thanks>>>
IMO Dunleavy>West in our situation
For our purposes, we needed an outside shooter not another PF. Not saying West wouldn’t be a good addition but he would make Gooden redundant, stifle Sanders development etc. etc. I don[’t believe West was ever on the Bucks radar although I may be wrong.
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
by CanadaBucks on Dec 12, 2011 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
And one thing I just noticed
Dunleavy 2y/7.5m not 15 so you’re talking 12.5 instead of 5
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
by CanadaBucks on Dec 12, 2011 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
Amnestying Gooden, Beno or Jax would have made it possible
Think of it this way…
If you waive Gooden then it basically becomes a question of whether you’d rather pay Gooden $26 million for the next four years or West $46 million for the next two (because you’d be eating all of Gooden’s deal).
by Frank Madden on Dec 12, 2011 5:33 PM CST up reply actions
As Canada astutely pointed out, Dunleavy is only paid 7.5 mill total, NOT per year.
So it’s actually quite a gap you are talking about between the West deal and the Dunleavy deal. Two years of Dunleavy will still be 2.5M less than one year of West. That’s without even addressing the issue of why West would want to join a crowded PF situation.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Dec 12, 2011 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
Kahn seriously can't help himself guys...it's amazing.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Dec 12, 2011 10:38 AM CST reply actions
Would the Knicks be interesed in Luc?
Would they have the cap space?
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
by CanadaBucks on Dec 12, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
I meant Luke not Luc
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
by CanadaBucks on Dec 12, 2011 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
I deeply apologize
My getting the name wrong has obviously become contagious. The only way I know to effect a complete cure is to watch a Bucks exhibition game this week or next, or the opener two weeks from now.
;)
More interesting news as well on the FA front.
Remember when I talked about Reggie Williams in the Swingman preview? Now his restricted status has been renounced by the Warriors pursuant to the DeAndre Jordan offer sheet, so he’s now unrestricted. I’m interested.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Dec 12, 2011 10:41 AM CST reply actions
Interesting. What would Reggie Williams do for us?
I’m guessing he’s a PF. Would he start? How ’bout his skill set?
Whom would you “de-select” from our roster? Trade Ersan for an intangible? Or 2-for-1?
[Sorry for the snobbish use of “whom” but you should know that a) I can’t help myself, b) if someone said the usage was incorrect I’d have to run to Google to try to find out.]
I don't see any way Reggie Williams is coming here
He is a SF and is probably lloking at money similar to what Young and Thornton got.
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
by CanadaBucks on Dec 12, 2011 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
I shall disengage
from any gazing in his direction
We could use a SF worth that kind of money, but it’s not a big hole and would require pretty substantial adjustment to the roster. Doesn’t sound like Hammond. Other stuff is more urgent.
Not so fast Chuk
I didn’t say he was worth that kind of money(subjective)I just think someone will pay him that kind of money.(Denver, Houston, bulls?)
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
by CanadaBucks on Dec 12, 2011 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
And I didn't say you did...
Didn’t say he was worth that money. I don’t know Williams to comment, but overpaying sounds like the likely result. That’s why I was turning away from Steve’s item. (I took off from your post, rather than directly commenting on it.)
I was trying to fly a little higher. Observe that adding Dunleavy to Delfino and rookies just makes SF adequate or adequate minus on our team. Moves it from a need to a semi-need. And then I was dreaming that if Kohl/Hammond are intent on Win Now with exclamation marks, they likely need to upgrade 3 positions: SF, PF, backup C. (Why dream small?)
Well Williams is a SG/SF, and with Jackson down with the hamstring I think that spot is still the biggest need (now that LRMAM is back in the fold at SF/PF).
Backup center still seems like a less important addition to me with Gooden able to slide over. None of the options being discussed seem much better than Gooden at C anyways. The D-League has plenty of young bangers that can fill the role if it becomes a bigger need.
Honestly, if backup center becomes a true factor (a Bogut injury) the season is toast anyways.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Dec 12, 2011 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
Hmmm...
Too many strings dangling from this topic. Let me quickly pull a couple.
1. Visions of Brockman playing C, and memories of Gooden saying he wasn’t really comfortable at center, have me sensing the need is greater than you think it is. Subjectively.
2. I vacillate. LRMAM and Gooden and others at PF may be OK. But I still feel Gooden’s foot is a IED, and still feel Bogut needs someone by his side who is big, quick, and tough — since Bogut’s considerable assets seem to rely on finesse. Not strength nor athleticism. So I’d like a macho 4/5. Starter or near starter.
3. I’m unsure that Jackson’s hamstring is much more than a splash in the news. Have the medical staff said anything about it? Would he be practicing if it was serious? I’d hope our bench can fill in OK at SG. Udrih or a combo.
4. Steve, what would you do to open a roster spot for Williams, and how would you apportion PT?
If we really need a center, what about Fesenko?
by MadTown Hoops on Dec 12, 2011 5:33 PM CST up reply actions
I thought about that too...
but if Deandre Jordan is getting over $10 million a season, I gotta think a young defensive center like Fesenko has got to command at least $4 million per season. Utah is stacked with big men this year, so I don’t think they will be in the bidding.
by Brick's house on Dec 12, 2011 5:40 PM CST up reply actions
Doesn't seem like he's getting any action right now
His raw numbers are garbage but the advanced stats on his defense are very impressive. I’d be thrilled to get a guy like that for something close to the min, though Bucks should still have two year, $2.5 million exception available.
Interesting that Aaron Gray also went for the minimum—good deal for Toronto.
by Frank Madden on Dec 12, 2011 5:43 PM CST up reply actions
Then there is the fact that the Bucks have a full roster...
I guess Hobson could be sacrificed (again) in the Bucks search for a backup to Bogut.
by Brick's house on Dec 12, 2011 5:45 PM CST up reply actions
I think and I hope
Leuer goes before Hobson goes.
Good point...
I just assumed history would repeat itself.
by Brick's house on Dec 12, 2011 6:27 PM CST up reply actions
Point taken
I’m not saying Williams wouldn’t be useful, just saying it’s not going to happen, some team with lots of cap room is going to give him 4/25 or something close to that I think. As for back-up centre there’s not really anything out there anyway. I’m sure we could always sign Etan Thomas or Earl Barron etc etc etc.
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
by CanadaBucks on Dec 12, 2011 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
Yea, I think Williams might still be a bit too expensive, but if he doesn't find a fit he likes, maybe the Bucks can swoop in on a 1yr deal.
Frankly, Williams would be one Jackson injury or one Delfino injury away from being the starter…and would always have the opportunity to outplay the SF rotation and earn more PT too.
It’s a pipe dream to be sure, but I just don’t think the backup center thing should be too big of a deal. Need more SG talent on the roster…it’s a position that will really need help this season. I’ve got a post on it sometime in the next week or so.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Dec 12, 2011 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
I'm actually hoping Luc gets the start at SF
I’d be inclined to say Bogut, Gooden, Luc, Jax and BJ, the idea being Luc is on the floor to shut down a starter. Could be my indifference to Delfino showing too though.
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
by CanadaBucks on Dec 12, 2011 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
I'm only indifferent to the bad Delfino
The good Delfino is a pleasure to watch, and an example of hoops with heart. Together they make a marginal + starter. IMO.
I took a look at Reggie Williams at Wikipedia and nba.com. Not a fancy guy. Modest but positive stats. Not a gunner, but good shooting %s. Wonder how he’d rank in this site’s super stat machine?
If his type will be getting overpaid, than so be it. C’est la vie.
He has been through the ringer already.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Dec 12, 2011 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
Here's what I wrote
6. Reggie Williams SG/SF – 6’6" | 25 yrs old | Restricted | 2011: 9.2 pts, 2.7 reb in 20 min/gm | 14.9 PER
Reggie Williams is fascinating on so many levels. Seemingly born to score the basketball, Williams led the NCAA in scoring two consecutive seasons while playing at the Virginia Military Institute, burst onto the scene in the NBA Developmental League with the Sioux Falls Skyforce (26 points per game and 5.7 rebounds per game) and eventually earned a spot on the Golden State Warriors in 2009-10. When Reggie Williams steps on a basketball court, at any level, he scores in bunches. The argument could be made that he has been the product of high-pace offenses, but the numbers tell a different story.
In fact, Williams isn’t a great transition scorer at all, but he is an elite spot-up shooter and a deadly three-point threat with supplementary isolation skills that make him doubly effective in half-court sets. With of these positive traits on his resume, what, pray tell, is holding him back from a starting job the NBA? Defense, of course. As it turns out, Reggie Williams is a bad defender of pick-and-roll ball-handlers and a mind-bogglingly horrible isolation defender. He ranked 340th overall in the NBA in points-per-possession allowed defending isolation plays in 2010-11 according to Synergy, so it is entirely possible that one well-placed orange cone would be of better use on defense than Reggie. Well okay, maybe not an orange cone, but a broomstick on wheels might give him a run for his money.
However, it stands to reason that if any team could absorb a talented offensive player with limited defensive skill and get the most from the fit, the Bucks should be first in line. This is the type of move that would validate the efficacy of Skiles’ vaunted defensive ‘system,’ right? What’s the point of having a defensive coach if he can’t effectively coach defense to less than excellent defensive players?
By the way, the same sophisticated study cited for Marco Belinelli among most valuable three-point shooters in the NBA for non-starters and ranked Williams at No. 6 overall in that grouping.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Dec 12, 2011 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
I recall the colorful prose
just forgot who it was about.
Is he, what, an average athlete?
Players can be bad at defense for at least two or three reasons:
1. Their lack of athleticism leaves them watching instead of defending.
2. Nothing in their career has made them care about defense.
3. Caring wouldn’t help much because they don’t have the hoops IQ for playing defense.
Any theories about Reggie Williams? The answer would impact what Skiles can do with Williams.
He has solid athleticism (not an uber-athlete).
From watching a bunch of Warriors games last season, much of it felt like a function of the Warriors’ high-pace style of play.
I don’t think Williams will ever be a great perimeter defender, but has the tools to be passable. He’s a self-made player through and through, working his way up from being undrafted, to the D-league, to the NBA. Hard work has never really been an issue with him so far as a know.
His real value will come in half-court offense as an isolation playmaker and spot-up shooter, but a team like the Bucks could mitigate his defensive deficiencies better than most teams I think.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Dec 12, 2011 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
Hopefully
One of the young lieutenants on the Bucks staff will read your suggestion, and somehow mention Reggie Williams in a staff meeting. Hopefully, that will lead to something. If only a higher up saying, “Yes, he might have been a possibility — but since we’re acquiring the much-better Xxxxxx, there won’t be a need.”
That’d be nice.
This phone doesn’t follow all my orders. Is an IP someone like good Salmons who creates his own shot?
by unklchuk on Dec 12, 2011 4:04 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Curious where his value ends up
I would have probably preferred him to Dunleavy, but obviously he wasn’t unrestricted last week. Very possible his value ends up being hurt by all the money that’s already gone out the door.
Given we have no roster spots as is, I’d say the odds of the Bucks adding yet another swingman are minimal. Need to find room for another big man first IMO (Ersan trade?).
by Frank Madden on Dec 12, 2011 5:47 PM CST up reply actions
Wouldn't that be Delfinos?
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
He would score in bunches then get sent to Skiles' doghouse for lack of D
Kind of like CDR, but good.
by MadTown Hoops on Dec 12, 2011 5:32 PM CST up reply actions
"Kind of like CDR, but good."
Ha…
Btw, curious if the CDR fans are going to come and get you for that one, Madtown…
by Frank Madden on Dec 12, 2011 5:48 PM CST up reply actions
I was just thinking we won't be dealing with them this year
sometimes they had valid points but it got a bit redundant after a while
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
The sad thing is I started out in CDR's camp, but then I saw him play for us
Some playmakers are dynamic, CDR is a drunken playmaker. He looks like an out of control marionette when he drives. Unfortunately for dude’s rep, I think we scared away all of his backers
by MadTown Hoops on Dec 12, 2011 8:05 PM CST up reply actions
GM Waiting Game?
Scanning the RealGM headlines suggests that a lot of teams are renouncing or clearing players I’ve heard of. Perhaps John is in his tiger role (not easy for a buck) waiting for the right guy to become available so he can pounce, and drag him back to the Cousins Cave to feed us fans.
Wonder if the odds favor the best result from a longish wait, or a short one? (Assuming we likely can only pounce once.)
Members of The Lamentation
Specifically The Order of Lamentation of Small Markets may assert that the only way tiger John could successfully pounce is if:
a. the prey player is near death
b. the prey agrees to roll over and play dead
They may be right. But I still hope our tiger has more spunk than that. I do know he’s not a tiger in a tank.
Or our tiger waits by the side of the road until the prey is caught in the dazzling headlights and is easy pickings as roadkill?
Fear the 'Dear'? You're damn right I'm scared of my wife!
by Big Crazy Dave on Dec 12, 2011 4:34 PM CST up reply actions
It's John Hammond, he's really more of a kitten, the man wears sweaters regularly
by MadTown Hoops on Dec 12, 2011 5:36 PM CST up reply actions
I had to choose
…between tiger and cat/kitten. I choose tiger ‘cuz I’m a REAL fan, and we genuine articles look so close and with such jungle-colored glasses that kittens look like tigers. Besides, call a kitten a tiger, and he may start acting like one.
- – - – - – - -
Roadkill, eh? I’m no cook, but I hear you have to cook that stuff for a long time with a lot of chemistry to get the smell out. Good thing our chemistry is renewed this year.
Nah, don't cook it...the impact tenderises the meat just right to eat it blue...
…just make sure to wear a peg on your nose and the chemistry will take care of itself…. ;)
Fear the 'Dear'? You're damn right I'm scared of my wife!
by Big Crazy Dave on Dec 13, 2011 5:03 AM CST up reply actions
CP3
Anybody else believe Chris Paul is getting what he deserves right now, with all this indecision regarding trades? I sure do.
I know what you mean
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
Carmelo was obnoxious and has never deserved the attention, Paul has been stuck in hell for years, no, dude doesn't deserve this
by MadTown Hoops on Dec 12, 2011 5:37 PM CST up reply actions
I wonder if Dells was trying to deal Paul before the season because he knows Paul's knees won't make it through the season?
If so, the NBA might have really screwed up Hornets. His value will go down, not up by trading deadline.
by Brick's house on Dec 12, 2011 5:42 PM CST up reply actions
Some pretty nice packages being discussed by Clippers
Not sure how they’re going to do better…anything with Wolves pick or Gordon is a pretty nice haul, plus throwing in Bledsoe/Aminu/Kaman? Take what you can get and start rebuilding.
by Frank Madden on Dec 12, 2011 5:50 PM CST up reply actions
And what about the other players?
We always feel sorry for the primadonna super stars who just happen to whine the loudest.
Stuck in hell
making millions of dollars per year, ya my heart bleeds for him. He went public last year with trade demands, he should have shut his mouth, played out the string and moved on after this season.
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
I heard the Clips claimed billups on waivers
That’s good, I was hoping the players wouldn’t whine their way onto the teams they wanted to be with. SI kind of wish the Wolves would have claimed Agent O though………
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
J.J. Barea will have to do
Why on earth they felt compelled to sign him is beyond me, but that’s Kahn for ya…
by Frank Madden on Dec 12, 2011 10:44 PM CST up reply actions
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