Bucks 96, Timberwolves 117: I've Got Some Good News, I've Got Some Bad News
It's only the preseason...it's only the preseason...
The Bucks kicked off the 2011 schedule with what might generously be described as a clunker, falling by a wide margin to the Timberwolves in Minnesota. After a reasonably competitive first quarter, things got out of hand fast, thanks largely to an incredible first half of three-point shooting by the Wolves, who started the game 10-11 from behind the arc. The Bucks couldn't answer and they couldn't stop it; the defense looked surprisingly shabby. To be fair, playing time was generously divvied up among players, particularly the newcomers, so the team never got a chance to really settle into a groove. Whatever the case, the Bucks finished with a shockingly bad 127.2 defensive rating.
Kevin Love and Michael Beasley led the way for Minnesota with 21 points each. Love did his damage from the three-point line, Beasley at the stripe. Second-overall pick Derrick Williams and newcomer JJ Barea chipped in 14 apiece, including another trio of treys from Williams. And the much anticipated debut of a certain Spanish point guard went reasonably well. Flashy passes will be commonplace in Minnesota, even if they don't always find their way to the bottom of the net.
You never want to overreact to a preseason game. While tonight's results were hardly encouraging, especially against a Minnesota team that isn't expected to be too good, it's still just one game. The Bucks' defense won't be this bad and the Wolves' offense won't be this good. There's a long list of mitigating circumstances: the Bucks were without Stephen Jackson, they've had precious little time to practice as a full unit, and so on. Still, things definitely could have gone better.
More on some of the individual performances after the jump.
The Vets
We'll start with Brandon Jennings and Andrew Bogut for two reasons: they're still the two most important players on the team and, after tonight, we want to get this over with quickly. It was an utterly forgettable night for both, sloppy from the outset and too short to remedy. Bogut's timing and footwork in the post were off, and the imposing figure of Darko Milicic had him flummoxed (never something you want to hear). Jennings attempted and missed 6 shots in the first half. He showed off what is undoubtedly his most frustrating feature: the guy can get to the basket in a variety of ways, but the last part where the ball goes through the rim continues to elude him. He had a couple of nice assists, including a dump-off under the basket and a slick bounce-pass in transition and was able to knock down all three of his second-half shots, but you'd have a hard time calling his night anything more than "uneven".
Carlos Delfino (11 points on 8 shots) played well in limited time, hitting a pair of threes and dishing a pair of dimes. Drew Gooden, Luc Mbah a Moute, and Ersan Ilyasova were essentially also-rans, though Gooden did finish with 3 offensive rebounds. Jon Brockman grabbed 4 boards, but looked downright Sanders-ian as a number of passes went right through his hands.
The n00bs
Here's the good news: the newest members of the Milwaukee Bucks looked good. Mike Dunleavy Jr. opened the game with a straight-on three and had three steals in the first few minutes (box score only gives him two, but he was definitely involved in at least three live-ball turnovers by the T-Wolves). He was active on defense, crisp on offense, and looked like an absolute steal for what it cost to sign him.
Shaun Livingston also impressed, particularly with his explosive drives to the basket in the first half. Livingston drove baseline and went up high for a dunk to draw a foul, then threw down again a few minutes later. He also displayed how useful he can be on defense thanks to his size and length. Looks like another solid pickup. Darington Hobson got 17 minutes of burn and contributed a 4/3/2 line, while Beno Udrih's crooked 4-13 shooting line could've fooled anyone into thinking he'd been with Milwaukee for years. Tobias Harris played only seven minutes, but did earn a highlight with a nice reverse layup in transition.
And then there was one.
There's a very real possibility this will be the best game of Jon Leuer's rookie season. It came against a team not known for defense in a contest that nobody really cared about winning. But nobody from Milwaukee surpassed expectations more pleasantly than Leuer, who led the Bucks with 18 points off the bench. Surprisingly, none of those points came from the three-point line, where Jon was expected to earn his keep. Instead, Leuer was able to draw a few fouls and sink 6 of his 7 free-throws. He'll definitely struggle defending the more physical players in the NBA, as shown by him getting a bit roughed-up at the hands of Derrick Williams. But I'm not listening to you naysayers!
The Final Word
So things didn't go as well as Bucks fans might have hoped. Don't panic. Things will get ironed out. They'll have to get ironed out quickly, but they will. The Bucks might not make enormous strides this year, but if this game showed us anything, it's that the new additions have come ready to play.
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I draw no conclusions
Just an exhibition. But we didn’t look talented. And we didn’t look together (much of the time).
I got very good at predicting whether our jump shots would go in or not. Because most of them were rushed or forced. They didn’t look right. They didn’t go in. Just like last year. Though some faces were new.
So far, it doesn’t look like a Skiles team.
But I won’t float a conclusion until sometime in February.
We'll have to talk to the man upstairs...
…and by that I mean the lead programmer.
by Dan Sinclair on Dec 18, 2011 1:21 AM CST up reply actions
I feel heard
A big important organization listens to little ol’ me. That’s great. Maybe I can shut up about that for a while.
BTW, are y’all a big important virtual organization, where the Internet binds you together but you never physically see each other? Or are you physically in the same place, where you maybe have offices or cubicles, and gather in a conference room to drink cappuccinos and plot how to build Fear of the Deer?
SB Nation does have a regular office based in DC
Some of the SBNation.com writers work out of there along with the management and tech types, but the vast majority of people running the team-specific sites work remotely. I’m in Boston, Alex in Milwaukee, Dan and Steve in Madison.
I actually don’t think I met Alex in person until about a year after we started the site, but now we all try to meet up whenever I’m in Milwaukee (2-3x per year).
by Frank Madden on Dec 18, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
And I'm on the outside looking in because I haven't written anything of value in over a year
http://twitter.com/WhalesLarry ...but only if you want to see someone still trying to figure Twitter out.
by Mitchell Maurer on Dec 19, 2011 5:25 AM CST up reply actions
I was at the game
The Wolves looked good. This could be the year they contend for a playoff spot. Especially if those 3’s keep dropping like they did last night
Based on one exhibition game?
Kahn’s Koolaid buy it now……….
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
And they probably will
Shoot 63% on threes for the year, that’s not unreasonable.
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
It's not the preseason until the Bucks lose to the Wolves
10/11: lost 119-114
09/10: lost 117-103, won 101-87
08/09: lost 117-79, lost 95-86
I do think Wolves have good chance to be improved even if Rubio/Williams aren’t major impact guys—Adelman alone will see to that.
by Frank Madden on Dec 18, 2011 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
Well they won 17 games last year so......
That won’t be tough. Still I only see one team that they may be clearly better than, the Hornets. Improved yes, contender…………….stranger things have happened but……….not a chance
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
by CanadaBucks on Dec 18, 2011 10:30 AM CST up reply actions
I always forget how bad they were last year...
by Frank Madden on Dec 18, 2011 10:38 AM CST up reply actions
If they were in the East
They might compete but not in the West IMO. I see a lot of up tempo ball, with line-ups like Rubio, Johnson, Beasley, Williams and Love. They will try to move Luke I think, might get a contender to bite at the deadline.
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
by CanadaBucks on Dec 18, 2011 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
I have no doubts that MN will finish outside of the bottom 10 this season
Too many other bad teams, too much talent, good new coach, and no motivation to lose with their draft pick in NO
by FearTheDeer on Dec 18, 2011 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
And we have problems?
Memphis started B. Skinner at centre on Friday night who btw pulled down 9 boards.
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
I should wait for more games to input into my judgments, but...
Bogut didn’t have much of a presence, but I think he’ll be OK
Jennings had a few moments, but I still don’t know if he’ll be OK
I have been one of the closest things Gooden has to a defender on that other forum, and it’s taken a toll on my reputation ;) but he’s looking worse than last year. Better foot and lighter weight haven’t brought his head into sync. I cringe watching him.
Barea and Dunleavy can help – but I felt both need to somehow avoid the Buckian syndrome of being pushed into taking rather poor shots. I thought both missed regularly at the end, and looked less comfortable.
Leuer had a big game, and did things to look like he belongs. But I still think he’s a rookie with a lot of adjusting to do.
I didn’t like our defense and I didn’t like our offense. Guess I’m fussy. Both will improve. Enough to matter? I don’t know.
If the chemistry is much better this year, it’s hard for me to see it. They play hard and try to work together. But so far I see no joy, no sense that they feel they’re building something.
I’d say Skiles has a terrific amount of work to do. I wonder if he “believes” in this team?
About Gooden...
I know no one likes him, or wants to, but he doesn’t seem healthy. Yeah he’s lost a ton of weight, but I’ve seen him hobbling around on the foot a lot. It’s like his foot is too heavy and he’s dragging it out there. I’m not sure if he had surgery in the offseason, but he’s still gimpy
Who turned the light's out?? Because I don't see nobody!
I thought his best work back the scrimmage was in post defense, which isn't something the TWolves really brought to the table, but he did seem quicker in defending Bogut's moves earlier in the week.
It may be a case of knowing all of Bogut’s moves in advance to be able to react even quicker, but he also had enough lift to block a Bogut hook.
I want to see how he plays in post defense before I feel bad, because I think it has already shown that skinny Gooden will play his same old offensive style.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Dec 18, 2011 9:50 AM CST up reply actions
it's the offensive style
that I’m finding offensive. It’s like he has one offense, and the rest of the team has another. Seldom the twain doth meet. Seems like his sole interior dialog when he touches the ball is “should I shoot now or do I have to give up the ball to keep coach off my back?”
Gooden's foot
He’s been talking about feeling great in camp/best he’s ever felt blah blah blah, but then he’s also alluded to the foot getting sore and needing to be rested from time to time. Not sure which we should believe…
by Frank Madden on Dec 18, 2011 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
Can you say amnesty?
I do not like him, have never liked him, and wish Hammond would have taken advantage of this free agency blunder by amnesty-ing him.
I think I'm probably the lone Gooden fan here, and he did play very well when he came back last year.
But even I’m losing faith in the guy.
If he doesn’t have a bounce back season, I’m sure JH will amnesty him after the season. [they can do that, right?]
That's Skiles offense
Skiles really must think we have the worst shooting players in the NBA. We still run that terrible offense he’s implemented. As soon as we got into a half court offense, it was figure eights at the 3 point line. Looked terrible.
by FearTheDeer on Dec 18, 2011 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
This is a transplant from the game thread as my two most meaningful thoughts
(1) Wow has Wesley Johnson been roasted by Mike Dunleavy or what? Prediction: He loses his starting job within two weeks. Terrible.
(2) Whoa three-point shooting…10-11 first hald for the TWolves? Skiles did make a subtle switch near the end of the first half, with Bogut playing smaller guys like Derrick Williams instead of Love. Think that’s how they will play guys like Love from now on. Stretch bigs played by Gooden or Ilyasova and Bogut taking the post guy, regardless of technical position designation or height disparities.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
Wes Johnson a bust?
I know it’s way too early to tell but looking at his stats last year the only thing he did on a regular basis was shoot, and his shooting % was kind of Jenningsesque. I didn’t follow him in college but again through his stats he looks like he was rated high based on one season. Throw in the fact that he’ll be 25 this summer and you might think kahn blew it again.
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
He'll probably be fine
He came into the league as a 23-year-old…not exactly a lot of room to improve dramatically. But he’s got great physical tools and can shoot a bit, so it’d be surprising if he doesn’t turn into a decent complementary player IMO. I don’t see him ever being a great player though, and there will certainly be bigger impact guys who drafted behind him.
by Frank Madden on Dec 18, 2011 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
From a Wolves fan's perspective...
he’s a lost cause. Nobody wanted to draft him because he’s old, can’t dribble, and is scared of everything. Kahn messed that one up from day one. He tries on D so he’ll probably develop into a Thabo Sefalosha type of player.
by Daddyfatsax on Dec 18, 2011 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
Advanced stats?
Are you guys thinking of posting advanced stats box scores? At least TS%? It would fit your MO?
by Southern Marxist on Dec 18, 2011 9:21 AM CST reply actions
We can link to the Hoopdata box scores throughout the season, how about that?
The best thing to get from individual game box score would probably the location-based shot charts and results, in my opinion.
When it comes to TS% or even team stuff like offensive rating and defensive rating, it’s just such a small sample it should mean all that much to anyone. It has some minimal descriptive vale in terms of knowing a bit more precise about a shooting performance, but ultimately doesn’t have much to add to the conversation in a single game.
Once again, sample size is too small. The same thing that makes the TWolves’ 15-24 (62.5%) from the arc ridiculous is also what would make an 93% true shooting percentage ridiculous, so you can probably tell the crazy outliers from even the most simple box score. It’s over the course of time where these things matter to the point of producing numbers worthy of a real close look. Even for all my long-range stats analysis, I’m not usually one to care about single game advanced stats too much, as surprising as it may be.
Maybe I will write a post about how I watch a game to humanize myself to you guys :)
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Dec 18, 2011 9:47 AM CST up reply actions
Great Idea!
Would love that since I’m trying to warm up to these advanced stats personally…
Who turned the light's out?? Because I don't see nobody!
The Hoopsdata link would be great.
The small sample caveat makes sense, but there is nothing like practice to get used to something new like advanced stats (agree with Miltown84)
by Southern Marxist on Dec 18, 2011 4:46 PM CST up reply actions
Always try to weave in advance stats in recaps, but one thing to keep in mind is that HoopData tends not to have real-time box scores — so, unfortunately, we probably won’t have access to some advanced stats when writing recaps right after games…
by Alex Boeder on Dec 18, 2011 10:10 PM CST up reply actions
The sample size issue is definitely worth keeping in mind, but I do like using advanced metrics from game-to-game because they do a much better job of telling the story of a particular game. For instance, after this game, the first question you might ask is “was the Bucks’ offense really bad in a fast-paced game, or was the defense bad in a more average-paced game?” By looking at Milwaukee’s defensive rating (127.2), you can get a better picture of what really happened in this game (though it’s tough to blame the Bucks too much when the Wolves were raining threes like crazy). The same goes for things like rebound rate. There’s nothing wrong with looking at something like defensive rebound rate for one game and saying, “In this game, the Bucks did a poor job of grabbing defensive rebounds, and thus the other team got lots of second shot opportunities.” The thing to avoid is looking at one such game and concluding that the Bucks must be a poor rebounding team.
by Dan Sinclair on Dec 18, 2011 10:56 PM CST up reply actions
I agree it is a bit more precise even in the single game version, but I'm starting small(er) by looking bigger.
For people who are going to get interested in advanced stats for the first time, keep in mind they are most meaningful in the larger sample sizes for bigger picture things. Even so, it can be helpful to look game to game as well.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Dec 19, 2011 1:34 AM CST up reply actions
It's been a while since I've posted regularly - but I'm back! : )
And as the resident Jennings hater, welcome to season 3 of the BJ show – where he officially becomes TJ Ford…
I’m just hoping that having 2 REAL pgs [beno, SL] on the roster will shed some light on the situation…
I personally would LOVE to see the Bucks trade BJ and commit to Baeno and SL long term.
IT'S TOO REAL, SON!
http://twitter.com/WhalesLarry ...but only if you want to see someone still trying to figure Twitter out.
by Mitchell Maurer on Dec 19, 2011 5:29 AM CST up reply actions
Thats the Beno that was 4-13 with 1 assist and 2 tos?
Just sayin………
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
by CanadaBucks on Dec 18, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
But all kidding aside I think everyone on this list
Knows that this is the make or break year for Jennings, some of us are a little more optimistic about his chances than you are but we shall see how it turns out. Not sure Beno is the PG of the future though…….Livingston maybe depending on his knees.
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
by CanadaBucks on Dec 18, 2011 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
I hear ya CB, I'm judging Beno over BJ because of his overall volume of work...
If I remember right, Beno has much better stats over the past 2 years while playing on a crappy Sac team.
I don’t feel Beno is the long-term PG of the Bucks future, but I have more confidence in him running a team than BJ.
I’ve always been a big Livingston fan, but his knee is just too much of a question mark to rely on him as anything more than a back-up. Sunch a shame, too – I think he’d be a perennial all star if he’d not had the injury…
Beno vs. Brandon
Beno has a much higher TS%…that’s the extent of his advantage. Brandon’s a better defender.
by Frank Madden on Dec 18, 2011 4:14 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, Beno appears to be a pretty horrible defender...
One could also argue that Beno has a higher BB I.Q. – and is more concerned with being an actual PG instead of doing his best Iverson impression.
Just my ywo cents ; )
Beno's not a big creator either
But I would say he has a better sense of his own strengths and weaknesses :)
by Frank Madden on Dec 18, 2011 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
I'm sure you Pack fans won't agree but....
It’s a great NFL day, Giants lose, bears lose…….now if the Lions lose it’s a perfect weekend.
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

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