Bucks 84, Timberwolves 85: Is It Really A Loss If It Doesn't Count?
by Steve von Horn on Dec 21, 2011 11:15 PM CST
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PrintWhen game time rolled around for this rematch between the Milwaukee Bucks and the Minnesota Timberwolves, my wife hit me with an abrupt reminder about the significance of the contest. When Andrew Bogut and Nikolai Pekovic jumped at center court, television in my household remained glued to the X Factor for the final live shows. When I attempted to move the on-screen guide to the Bucks game, my wonderful wife, who was rather conveniently informed on Bucks matters this night, calmly pointed out it was only a preseason game and had no real significance. Truth be told, she had me dead to rights, so I sat and watched three amateur contestants desperately compete for a $5 million dollar recording contract and let a not-so-desperate exhibition competition between established millionaires slowly matriculate onto our DVR.
Although I didn't see the game exactly as it happened live, I used the added benefit of DVR to glean what I think are some important observations you can take away from a simple preseason game. Remember, it's only preseason.
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After the Bucks defense yielded 117 points in a loss to the Timberwolves several nights ago, this game had a much more Bucksy feel from the start. Nearly three minutes into the game both teams had yet to score a single point, but when the scoreboard finally did light up it signaled something good for Bucks fans. Brandon Jennings scored the first two baskets of the game by making heady off ball cuts and converting well-placed perimeter passes by Mike Dunleavy into strong finishes at the hoop. It's entirely possible Dunleavy has the best combination of size, basketball IQ and passing skill on the team, so I expect to see a lot more deliberate and successful cuts off the ball by teammates when he has possession at the top of the key or along the wings. He led the team with 5 assists on Saturday night, and added another two in the preseason home opener.
The book is out on Jennings.
The T'Wolves sent their defender under the screener on pick and roll with Jennings all night long, so the 1-5 action with Bogut didn't really yield much in the early going, and Brandon will have to find ways to make the defense pay for doing that to him when the real games start. The most successful pick-and-roll combo for Jennings actually happened to feature Drew Gooden on pick and pops, where Gooden's defender got caught up on the hedge and couldn't slide laterally to cover in time, creating wide open looks where Gooden could come to a full set and fire on target. If they insist on starting Jennings, it might make more sense to have Luc Richard Mbah a Moute (LRMAM) come off the bench and allow Gooden to run pick and pop to force teams out of the under approach on Jennings. It could get real ugly real fast for everyone involved if Bogut and LRMAM are the only options for pick and roll with Jennings. In fact, the game opened with some LRMAM wing pick and rolls, but it generated very little defensive movement.
Yeah Yeah, But What About Stephen Jackson?
He did not start the game, but guess who was first man off the bench for the Bucks? Stephen Jackson, baby. Sporting double shooting sleeves AND double leg sleeves, all in red, it was easy to find S-Jax when he came out on the floor. Aside from sticking out like a sore thumb in terms of uniform accessories, he actually blended well with the Bucks offense in his limited action. His first shot attempt in a Bucks uniform found the bottom of the net, and his second shot followed suit. His early success even created an opportunity for a shot-fake and drive that sent Jackson to the line in the early going.
I could tell you about the free throw sequence as well, but I actually found something more interesting when breaking down the sequence of possessions described above. Jackson caught the ball in nearly the exact same spot on the floor to initiate his opportunities all three times: the left wing behind the three point line. In fact, he spent most of his night working on the left side of the floor. After every pick and roll situation in the early going, Jackson was waiting on the left wing for a spot up three or some derivative look. I don't think this was a coincidence at all. Maybe the coaching staff has noticed something in their shot charting about Jackson's comfort or accuracy on the left wing, or maybe he has a better feel for dribble-drives on that side of the court, but I will certainly be looking for this when the regular season tips off. Maybe it's nothing, but it looked deliberate to me. Just my two cents.
It didn't take long for Jon McGlocklin and Jim Paschke to work out a nickname for S-Jax either, and here's the sequence the TV duo got into just minutes after he entered the game:
Paschke: All I can think about looking at the back of his jersey, which says Jackson 5, is it's as easy as A-B-C, 1-2-3...Jackson 5
McGlocklin: [Laughs] [Sings along for a bit with Jim] [Pauses] Yup.
Bucks Selectively Hasten The Pace
Don't let the early score fool you, the Bucks did place an emphasis on picking spots to push the ball in transition. Whether off missed free throw attempts, long rebounds or forced turnovers, the Bucks made a clear effort to set the outlet man further up the court and send at least one wing player streaking on the weak side of the break. All of this came with mixed results. When Jennings forced the action on the first two planned pushes, he missed a pull up jumper from the left elbow and got swatted hard by Wayne Ellington on a layup attempt. When Jennings left the plays to develop based on defensive movement, he found Dunleavy streaking on the weak side and calmly reset the offense if no easy opportunities presented themselves. Young Buck finished with 9 assists on the night, and when he attacked under control and looking to dish in transition, he looked dangerous. The Bucks finished the first half shooting 45% and with 15 assists, and finished with 44% shooting and 24 assists, so all in all it seemed to help protect against long scoring droughts that plagued the team last season. Yet another thing to keep your eye on when the real games begin.
Defense, Defense, Defense
The Bucks held the Timberwolves to 37% shooting in the first half and just 2/5 on threes, and just 41% and 6-15 on threes for the game, so what changed? Part of it was a simple regression in three-point shooting, but a lot had to do with how Skiles played Kevin Love in this game. On Saturday night he left Bogut to cover Love in some of the small ball lineups engineered by Rick Adelman, and it left Love open for pick and pop threes that Bogut isn't really equipped to cover well enough. In this game there were plenty of interior matchups for Bogut, but LRMAM also had clear orders to guard Love all night long. The elite perimeter skills flashed for LRMAM, as Love got his baskets primarily on broken plays and almost never in isolation outside of the post. Sure he still got 22 points on just 10 shots, but it was an odd 22. Love looked far less comfortable on the perimeter being guarded by LRMAM, and Bogut looked far more comfortable keeping his defensive assignments limited to the paint, so I expect Skiles to keep Bogut on the player with the least range from now on and use LRMAM on perimeter-oriented bigs if necessary.
Other Notes
LRMAM had the green light to take short corner jumpers on the right side in the second half, and actually looked fairly decent from 15-18 ft. The big moment of the night was when he took a perimeter swing pass from Darington Hobson and calmly knocked down a right corner three. I repeat: LRMAM went a perfect 1-1 from the arc in live NBA action. There have been murmurs about the Prince putting in work on extending his range to arc, and now we all have some tangible evidence. Another observation: nearly all of LRMAM's looks came from the right side short corner, and that felt just as deliberate in terms of placement as Jackson's opportunities did. Oh yeah, Drew Gooden hit a three as well so....that happened too.
Speaking of Darington Hobson, I'm still not sure what he does that helps anyone on the court. He seems programmed to pump fake and drive when he catches on the perimeter, but the defense isn't concerned enough about his scoring ability to make his drive-and-kick action worth the effort at this point. Maybe he will emerge as someone who can do a little bit of everything over the course of time, but I'm still waiting for a glimpse.
Larry Sanders had four fouls and two turnovers in five minutes of action. Great job, Larry. Tobias Harris and Shaun Livingston didn't play.
How Did They Actually Lose?
The game was fairly tight for most of the night, and the Bucks were up 78-71 with under four minutes to play (and 84-75 with under two minutes to play!), but the shots just stopped falling and all the action generally devolved into a preseason slopfest. It would be unfair to say it's business as usual for the Bucks, because the lineup Skiles used at the end of game was not something you will see to close out a real game (Jennings-Udrih-Hobson-Leuer-Gooden). One man who looked good for the Bucks in the late-game situation was Beno, who ran pick and roll well enough to score the last four points for the Bucks on the night. Kevin Love was still in the game for some odd reason and hit like 50 threes to end the game, and the T'Wolves won. Good for them.
Don't focus on the failure of a mish-mash lineup to pin up the continuing narrative of the team's offensive struggles, as that would add to everything that is wrong about watching the preseason too closely. Instead, take some of the general observations I left you earlier in the recap and come ready to see some real NBA action when the Bucks open up against Charlotte.
How Did They Actually Win?
All proceeds from ticket sales went to a great cause, The MACC Fund, and the team emerged from the preseason with no game-related injuries.
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sarcasism...negativity
“Larry Sanders had four fouls and two turnovers in five minutes of action. Great job, Larry.”
Why are you so sarcastic? Or so negative? Do you really think the players on the Bucks would have a desire to talk with you after you constantly make criticisms of this type? No need to respond, obviously, but your sarcasm is unreal. Who are you trying to impress? I am as upset as anyone that Larry’s plays easily caused the loss, but if I were taking the responsibility to write about the Bucks in public I would not be so obviously rude to the players who are, in their own way, trying to help the cause. I am not asking you to be a homer, but sometimes I wonder if you ever consider whether or not the players would have any desire whatsoever to have a conservation with you if they were to become aware of your “constructive criticisms.”
I would be more than willing to discuss this further, but I have two initial questions.
(1) did you honestly come away from this recap thinking the primary message was directed at Larry Sanders or that the recapture was overly negative?
(2) how would you have described sanders’ night for someone who didn’t see it. I happen to believe soiled and Sanders himself hold Larry to a much higher standard than anything I could say here, just based on their knowledge of specific assignments in the game. I think Larry would say he sucked on Wednesday night too, because I believe him to be a competitor. Playing that poorly when tying to earn minutes in the rotation is something worthy of mention in a recapture for people who didn’t see the game.
You are more than welcome to disagree with my assessment, but how would you describe Sanders’ night to interested Bucks fans?
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Dec 22, 2011 1:07 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
soiled is meant to be Skiles. kindle fire autocorrect got me good there.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Dec 22, 2011 1:09 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
For anyone interested in a bit more on the Sanders deal, I almost put this in the article but feel I didn't quite have enough to go with. It raised an eyebrow for me though...
The oddest part about Sanders’ late game failures was the fact that he came into the game at all. With the Bucks still up 84-77 and only 1:24 remaining in the game, Skiles moved to insert Larry into the game in what appeared to be garbage time. The whole substitution pattern didn’t quite feel right to me.
Here’s what I think might have happened (conjecture time). Skiles has been fairly tough on Sanders going back to last season, and on this night maybe he heard something from Sanders’ area on the bench or just sensed something from Sanders he didn’t like. Could have been a joke and a laugh, could have been general body language or a lack of focus on the game, but something compelled Skiles to throw Sanders into the game with under 90 seconds to play and a 7 point lead. My thought is Skiles wanted to send Sanders a message that if he wants to suit up for coach, he needs to be focused and sharp at any given moment. If he’s not, he will get embarrassed by other professionals on the court. Just a thought, but the substitution had a strange feel to me.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Dec 22, 2011 8:01 AM CST up reply actions
Sanders "soiled"
Reading, I thought you were saying Sanders “soiled himself,” which seemed about right to me. He was so bad I really think he should disappear from the line-up team …
On the other hand Mbah a Moute’s shooting improvement was a wonder to behold. I’m so glad we matched his offer, re-signed him.
In terms of hard workers, contributors, these 2 last night dramatically represented the team’s extremes
Interesting take, Steve
I sincerely hope you are right, meaning I love to hear coaches do that sort of thing. Sanders better be careful as he (in my mind) Is now behind Leuer on the depth chart.
Luc's shot
Through all the discussion of Luc’s future over the past few months, I’ve generally only played lip service to the idea of him meaningfully improving his jumper. I’ve supported the idea of retaining him, mind you, but it’s generally been based on the fact that a) he’s an elite and versatile defender and b) elite skills should carry an extra premium.
What are the odds he appreciably improves his shot this season? On long twos he’s shot 36%, 28% and 36% over the last three years, so it’d be big if he could bump it over 40%. Would help spacing and make his pump fake and drive that much more useful, too. We’ve also long talked about him adding a corner three, but I don’t even want to jinx anything by talking about it…he’s a completely different player (in a good way) with that shot in his back pocket.
by Frank Madden on Dec 22, 2011 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
by no means was the overall tone of your recap negative, and in general i really like what you and the other brewhoop writers have to say. however, there are times when cynicism and sarcasm are used by sports writers in ways that do not add anything to the conversation. i’m all for being critical, and larry certainly deserved criticism for his truly lacking performance, but for whatever reason i felt that the tone you took was unnecessary. in that regard, one of your sentences about Hobson also added nothing to the conversation and seemed like a slight against him, “Speaking of Darington Hobson, I’m still not sure what he does that helps anyone on the court.” The dude is a rookie. Its obvious he’s still trying to learn the system, but he played tough, aggressive D all night and kept the ball moving on offense. The rest of your paragraph about him was fair and true, so I didn’t know why you needed to be so negatively incredulous about his impact 39 minutes into his playing career. my thesis is simply that if i were larry or darington, i would have written you off. thats all. you have good stuff to say, but if i were a player and felt disrespected by a journalist i wouldn’t grant them interviews. i’m not sure if that has anything to do with anything when it comes to brewhoop, but i thought i’d give you my two cents.
That’s a thoughtful clarification, IMO.
Regarding Sanders and Hobson (to a lesser degree) the sarcastic or flippant attitude may be an attempt to acknowledge the frustration readers feel about them. Sanders was described as a jewel, potential-wise, by the team. So far, we see a lump of coal. Nature makes diamonds out of coal, but it takes eons — and the Bucks need help sooner than that. If the writer treats Sanders with normal respect, the reader MAY feel some separation from that writer. And it the writer has his own frustration re Sanders, that will show too. BrewHoop has human beings writing for them; not robots; and we like it that way.
Hobson arrived with a label of being a point forward, with a high BBIQ. Because of the hip surgeries, we had to wait a year. Now that he’s on the court, he’s kinda unobtrusive. Superficially, it looks like another misjudgment by the Bucks front office. (I still have hope.) Our front office has had a LOT of misjudgments. Anything that may suggest that Hobson is another will likely tap into that frustration.
The Bucks have been mostly BAD for a long time. Those fans and writers who are still hanging in should not be expected to show glacial equanimity. IMHO.
By and large, in most sports, fans don't have patience anymore for young players?
To some extent, alot of coaches have the same affliction. That is partly why a lot of veterans keep drawing pychecks. The frustration is understandable, but what is equally frustrating is when teams keep propping up the same mediocrity, year after year. In the NBA, you need supertars to succeed. The Bucks do not have one.
Thanks for the extra detail and the response Eroco6.
I do get what you are saying to a certain extent, and will at least give my posts an extra look in the future to make sure I am adding to conversation with analysis. I’m sure you understand that our task is to analyze both good and bad, and with this team is has been a lot more bad than good over the last decade.
I personally don’t think I am growing intolerant of youth or potential or lack of execution, but I have developed a better eye for which players aren’t performing at a professional level. It’s a twisted bit of skill these Bucks teams have honed…knowing where to spot incompetence and below-average play. If I don’t give my honest opinions on players I would be doing myself and our readers a disservice, so if bad things happen I will continue to point them out and analyze their root cause. It’s just how I see the task before me.
All this being said, you have brought to my attention some concerns that will make me think twice with regards to the tenor of my analysis. I can’t promise a drastic change in style will emerge, but the thoughtful consideration of your concerns will be there.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Dec 22, 2011 9:45 PM CST up reply actions
Just win baby.....we are all waiting
In the interim, rationalization, over-reaction, and the like, will persist. No need for apologies.
Meant to say Steve, I like a little sarcasm in your writing.
It is a nice way to vent your frustrations with a little humor. Plus, I doubt the players read these blogs anyway, so fire away.
by Brick's house on Dec 22, 2011 10:25 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I like the sarcasm...
I rarely ever comment, but felt compelled too. I love the sarcasm in these articles, and honestly it would be tough to read about a team like the Bucks without the witty and sarcastic comments. Larry Sander is a professional and professionals deal with criticism. That’s life, and that’s a part that comes along with the millions of dollars these athletes make. It’s not as if what you were saying wasn’t factual. Larry Sanders played horrible…it is a fact. So keep up the good work!
by matticharlie23 on Dec 22, 2011 10:22 PM CST up reply actions
The complainer
must have a full case of Midwestern Nice. I saw nothing out of line. Bad is bad.
by unklchuk on Dec 22, 2011 1:44 AM CST via Android app reply actions
Strange reaction to the game
Liked what the Bucks were trying, more or less. Better than Sat. More effort at teamwork. But if this were an opera, they’re a cast without a fat lady. No star to. carry them. Low on talent.
by unklchuk on Dec 22, 2011 1:55 AM CST via Android app reply actions
"Cast without a fat lady"
Chuck, I’m probably going to have to steal that at some point…
by Frank Madden on Dec 22, 2011 7:40 AM CST up reply actions
Not to rain on anyone's parade
But I think that saying has been used before except “opera” was substituted for “cast”
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
by CanadaBucks on Dec 22, 2011 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
I didn't mean to claim fathering it...
Only adapting it. I considered citing the source phrase, since i don’t know if what’s common in my head is common in the heads of all you young’uns. But since it was used in sports a lot, thought it wasn’t really needed.
Plus my usage wasn’t 100% derivative since the original refers to not jumping to conclusions and I was referring to not having one. Wikipedia may make that a bit clearer:
It ain’t over till the fat lady sings
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It ain’t over till (or until) the fat lady sings is a colloquialism, essentially meaning that one should not assume the outcome of some activity (e.g. a sporting contest) until it has actually finished, similar to a common proverb. It is a perception of Grand Opera, typically overweight sopranos, and perhaps Brünnhilde’s final aria from Götterdämmerung.
It is a common expression in sports reporting and everyday situations to mean, “it’s not over until it’s over,” similar to the 16th century saying “don’t count your chickens before they hatch” (but with opposite connotations). Although originally the proverb was, “The carnival isn’t over until the fat lady sings,”[citation needed] its use in sports journalism has been attributed to writer/broadcaster Dan Cook; his original line was “The opera ain’t over till the fat lady sings.”1 This occurred in April 1978, when he used the phrase after the first basketball game between the San Antonio Spurs and the Washington Bullets (now the Washington Wizards) during the 1977–1978 National Basketball Association playoffs, to illustrate that while the Spurs had won once, the series was not over yet.
The phrase has also been used by former Baltimore Orioles’ manager Earl Weaver.2
[end Wikipedia]
No stars
Johnny Mac said last night that a team’s stars have to contribute night in and night out. Problem is, this team is realistically devoid of stars.
So, the Bucks have a cast of skinny chicks then? ;)
Fear the 'Dear'? You're damn right I'm scared of my wife!
by Big Crazy Dave on Dec 22, 2011 4:54 PM CST up reply actions
now that I'm not pecking out letters
…one by one on a smartphone screen, I’ll expand slightly on the opera.
I thought they showed some for-them interesting things on offense. And Hobson, who was scandalously and unconscionably vilified in the… (oops, forgot the exclamation marks; here they are: !!!!!!!) post-game write up showed an admirable to me dedication to making the damn offense move and made passes that should have resulted in assists and was anticipating enough to be in or close to the action at significant points looks to me like he has The Right Spirit. Just don’t know if the NBA will give him enough time to develop an NBA game — and whether genetics gave him enough athletic talent. (I’m tempted to say I don’t know how much athleticism he has because he doesn’t try to manifest much. On one or two of his slashes he looked quicker than I expected, but then he knew where he was going and the defense probably didn’t expect him to go anywhere.)
Anyway, while I was taking some satisfaction with and entertainment from some of the action on offense I still had this feeling rising in me: This secondary offense is interesting, but when will we see the real thing, the main event offense that we can employ reliably and the opponent will struggle to stop? (Like Kevin Love for Minn.) Thus the fat lady comment. I guess the answer is when we get one.
Don’t mean to suggest no hope. There are some fixings; whether they will combine to bake a cake remains to be seen (and tasted). A renewed Bogut may average 15-17. Jennings gives me some hope. Skiles should get production out of Dunleavy. I’m curious what role Cap’n Jack will fulfill — maybe an erratic one? And others can build their scoring as they work in. Perhaps instead of a fat lady we’ll have a quintet. Won’t be standing room only, in all likelihood, but it may be playoffs.
What were the Bucks trying, again?
Minnesota fan. I don’t mean to be at all smarmy about this, but aside from the jumpers taken by Gooden and “LRMAM” I really saw no clear M.O. from Milwaukee last night. What was being accomplished?
Leuer continued to impress me a bit too – he seems like a nice find – but in terms of style of play, I looked at the Bucks and wondered whether Skiles is just like this in preseason. That’s why I came over. Is Skiles just evaluating talent? Do the Bucks not “get” that Bogut needs to see the ball more to do things like that neat interior pass?
It was an ugly clutter of a game, and Wolves fans, I imagine, were with me in hoping that was because Rubio and Barea were both being held out with minor dings….
"Opinion ...a confession."
It has been Skiles' way in preseason to clusterf*** everything during the past few preseasons.
I’m sure it’s his way of being sneaky and creeping up on the other teams. At least, that’s the delusion that I subscribe to anyway :)
Fear the 'Dear'? You're damn right I'm scared of my wife!
by Big Crazy Dave on Dec 22, 2011 4:56 PM CST up reply actions
I definitely don't think Skiles gives a rip about getting wins in preseason
Not that every other coach does, but still…
by Frank Madden on Dec 22, 2011 5:05 PM CST up reply actions
I think he might see a career W/L record in the preseason of 2-26 a badge of honour :)
Fear the 'Dear'? You're damn right I'm scared of my wife!
by Big Crazy Dave on Dec 22, 2011 5:24 PM CST up reply actions
I gathered. Only, what's he trying to do then? Just wait for the real games?
You’d think an NBA head coach would want something out of the time. Develop young players?
"Opinion ...a confession."
Pre-season W-L records not good indicators of regular season performance
In ANY sport, not the least which 2 measly games.
FTs
FT% has me worried. As others have noted, the Bucks are not talented enough to be sloppy about the basics of the game. Hopefully, last night was an anomaly.
by Southern Marxist on Dec 22, 2011 8:22 AM CST reply actions
Link to advanced stats?
Will the link to advanced stats come with the regular season?
by Southern Marxist on Dec 22, 2011 8:25 AM CST reply actions
Hoopdata doesn't mess with the preseason boxes, so it'll have to be regular season.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Dec 22, 2011 8:41 AM CST up reply actions
Gooden should start
Like you said, the pick-and-pop works best with Jennings and Gooden. You’re not helping Jennings by forcing him to work with Luc. Luc is a great defender, and his offense has improved, but he still isn’t a real threat on offense, and Bogut cant’ shoot so there is no pickand pop potential (just roll). If Luc takes too many of Gooden’s minutes, we will be stuck with the 80-70 type of games (where we have 70).
Montee Ball for Heisman.
Tajh Boyd and Dre' Ellington are the future.
The counterargument...
Luc isn’t as much of a liability offensively when he’s playing at PF, and if Gooden comes off the bench he’s still going to be running pick & pop with Beno.
by Frank Madden on Dec 22, 2011 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
But defenders don't go under screens in pick and roll with Beno.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Dec 22, 2011 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
Only saw the first half...
But I really like what I see from Dunleavy. Will be very curious to see if he wins the starting SF spot…
I think it might be his to lose
Delfino has never had much trouble earning playing time, but Dunleavy seems to be a more dynamic player on offense. If Delfino could utilize his athleticism a bit more (I’m thinking of his dunk over Josh Smith and Pachulia in the playoffs), he’d be very good, but as it is he seems like a player best suited as a reasonably effective spot-up shooter. Might make more sense to bring him off the bench as an offensive injection, especially if matchups let you play him at the 2 or the 3.
by Dan Sinclair on Dec 22, 2011 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
From what I saw ......
Dunleavy was extremely active and engaged. He made a couple nice passes from the wing/ key. Plus, he is 6’9. The only concern might be on defense, but if he pairs with SJack, Dunleavy can guard the lesser of the two (2 or 3).
Dunleavy seems to be doing what was Carlos work
He brings a fairly similar set of skills and seems to be a better shooter. I’m getting used to the idea that Carlos will have a lesser role this season. Maybe this compressed schedule makes Skiles put them an equivalent amount of time. I don’t know.
About his athleticism, he usually jokes the rim is higher every year that goes by. So I don’t see he can be an offensive injection. On the contrary, I believe Skiles will play him if he needs balance or to secure ball handling or something like that.
On scoring points ....
He can put the ball in the hole, something that this team has been pathologically unable to do in recent years.
I'm sure someone has said this but
Sanders needs the D-League. Playing him at garbage time(if he even dresses)is not going to help him. Maybe he’ll be Alexandered(option not picked up for next year). Harris and Hobson the other two in civvies if everyone is healthy imo(Maybe Brockman)
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
I agree, Canada
The old saying “practice makes perfect” might apply here. He is more raw than I thought he was.
I think you can make good cases for all of them benefiting from the D-League
Sanders could use reps on the offensive end, and it will be tough to get them here. Not sure if the D-League can help him much defensively, but just playing 25-30 mpg somewhere would be a good thing. IMO Sanders’ minutes probably depend a lot on the backup center spot—if Skiles starts Gooden then you’re even more limited in terms of guys off the bench to spell Bogut. I think Larry is more of a long four than a light-in-the-shorts-five, but obviously the Bucks are more limited depth-wise at the five so he should have an opportunity to win some time there if he figures things out a bit.
IMO Hobson needs to get some competitive basketball under his belt, so I think there’s also a good case to be made for letting him get his timing/rhythm back with an early-season trip to Fort Wayne.
Then there’s Harris, who’s still just 19. We know he’s smart and hard-working, but is that really enough to get minutes this season? And if not, wouldn’t he also benefit from regular burn somewhere?
Leuer may be emerging as the youngster least in need of seasoning, and part of that might be due to the fact that he and Ersan were the only guys playing real basketball the last couple months. Very curious to see how his role evolves—given the likelihood of Ersan leaving, it’d be great if Leuer/Sanders could steal minutes from him and make it easier to deal him. I think that’s a bit wishful (Ersan is still a very useful pro IMO), but it is almost Christmas, right?
by Frank Madden on Dec 22, 2011 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
I really think Leuer is one of the 12 that will dress on a nightly basis
Yes he has flaws but he also has attributes that can help immediately. I think he could spell Bogut against teams that don’t play big(Toronto, cleveland, Charlotte etc)and contribute in some other areas. Think he’ll be 5-10 minutes a night for the time being and hopefully he progress in a positive way. I’m not sure ersan is getting much interest until the trade deadline or for an injury.
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
I'm close to those views
Think the coaches see the positive things in Leuer, but expect him to show some negatives too. For the 1st part of the season, I’d think he might get PT in half the games.
Ersan had a good 1st outing. (Either the scrimmage or the first exhibition.) Looked confident, made a couple shots. But he’s morphed back to last year lately. If I was a GM I wouldn’t be out to acquire him. Hope somebody is.
- – - – - – -
Re the comments of the Minn fan. IMHO two of the comments you made are true.
Skiles doesn’t care about rolling out the whole offense. Would rather play players who need grading to get more evidence on them. Think Skiles is a coach who not only says exhibitions don’t matter as wins or losses; he also means it. His head, I suspect, is remarkably free of the little urge to win them “anyway.”)
We, as last year’s worst offense in the NBA, don’t have a MO. All Bucks fans should receive Purple Hearts if they hung in there throughout last season. It was grim. Most think (me included) that we’ll be noticeably better this year (20th would be good; 15th would be great) ‘cuz we’ve added what for us are good shooters. And because the offense has more ball & man movement. It’ll be a work in progress.
Maybe Harris
For the D League. Sanders and Hobson provide insurance at positions with potential injuries. Gooden should be the backup center because he seems to more effective on both ends of the floor. Leuer could beat out Ersan for Backing up Luc.
by toasterrebound on Dec 23, 2011 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
FWIW-Shaun Powell's eastern Playoff teams
Eight playoff teams in the East. Heat, Bulls, Knicks, Celtics, Sixers, Hawks, Pacers, Bucks. Yes, no Magic. The Dwight Howard era won’t end well.
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
Time will tell with this team ...
I have always contended that, on less than stellar teams, there is a point at which you say “what the heck, put him in and see what he can do.” I have gotten the sense on this site, that there is a lot of blind loyalty that goes on. Sometimes one has to step away from all the pinpoint analysis and take a sky view of things. I do this on occassion with my baseball analysis. As former NFL coach Dennis Green once shouted “They are what we thought they were.”
Not to be too idealistic ....but
I am anxious to see new, young players.
Could have been report
Last night
Marshon Brooks-25 minutes, 4-14, 5r, 1a, 5pf, 3to 8 points
Alec Burks -13 minutes, 0-8, 1 steal 1 point
But they both outscored Harris
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
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