Bulls 83, Bucks 75: Chicago (with fans) reasserts Central superiority in Milwaukee
by Alex Boeder on Feb 27, 2011 3:22 AM CST
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MILWAUKEE -- The Bucks played in a meaningful game tonight at a sold-out Bradley Center against their division rival.
Caveats: Meaningful for the Bulls, because they are in a race for the top seed in the East. Sold-out, because of thousands and thousands of Bulls fans. And against their division rival, who is now 3-0 against the Bucks and 12-0 against the Central Division this season.
Before, during, and after, this was not pleasant. Before the game, we received news that Ersan Ilyasova would not play due to a concussion. Brandon Jennings turned in one the least productive games of his NBA career and then said he knows he probably won't get the ball back after he passes it. Andrew Bogut shot 2-10 and appeared to leave the game while holding his arm/elbow. John Salmons (5-16 fg) and Carlos Delfino (3-13) played a lot (team-high 37 minutes each) and shot a lot and missed a lot. Those were the key figures on the 2010-11 team that bested the Bulls by five games. And if it was not clear before tonight, it was painfully clear after that while the Bucks are still in the same division as Chicago, they are not anywhere in the same league.
The game developed as you might imagine. Derrick Rose heard "MVP" chants on the first possession, two of the top defensive teams in the NBA failed to reach 40 points by halftime, the opposing team's top players outplayed Milwaukee's top players, the Bucks scored two points in the first five minutes of the fourth quarter, and February is at long last over for the team.
Still this qualified as a disappointment even as standards are at a low point (or back to normal, you could say). Because the Bucks came in with a 14-13 record at the Bradley Center, and the Bulls with a 13-13 record away from the United Center. But home court advantage was no great equalizer tonight -- not when more than half of the cheers came for Chicago. Whether your scope is small or you are thinking big picture, this was not a winner. It was just another night in which you could not tell if the Bucks are chasing a playoff spot or a high lottery pick. The sad reality is that they will probably end up with neither.
Three Bucks
Luc Mbah a Moute. Absolutely crushed it against Carlos Boozer's embarrassing "defense" early on, driving by Boozer on the baseline, making open jumpers, and creating his own offense with steals (4 of those tonight) and finishes (season-high 16 points). The Prince was the best offensive player and best defensive player for Milwaukee, but he only played 26 minutes while battling foul trouble, as defensive stars clearly do not get defensive star treatment from the refs.
Earl Boykins. Brandon Jennings was benched for the entirety of the fourth quarter in favor of Boykins, and an understandably discontented Jennings was nevertheless complimentary to Boykins after the game, saying the third-string point guard "had it going." Boykins did, and he sure does from time to time. In fact, he boasts the best shooting percentage (.440) among all guards on the team, and the 4-5 effort from the field (including making 2-2 from deep) was pretty much the only offensive punch by the Bucks in the final three quarters.
Jon Brockman. A couple points and a few rebounds is sufficient for honors this eve.
Three Numbers
9. Joakim Noah totaled nine offensive rebounds, and he had them all in the first half.
28-15. Building on that, the Bulls scored 28 second-chance points compared to 15 for the Bucks, and that was really the story of the night.
And that has been the story of the last couple weeks for Chicago. The Bulls made it nine straight games in which the have scored more second-chance points than their opponent.
25. Of course the Bucks shot 38.2 %. Milwaukee has now failed to shoot 40.0 % from the field in 25 games this season. They are 4-21 in those contests.
Three Good
Two is company, 18,717 is a crowd. Though it would probably best if no one saw what happened, and Bulls fans were legitimately louder than Bucks fans, the Bradley Center did sell out (official attendance: 18,717) for the second time this season. And that made for a uniquely charged atmosphere at the BC.
Bango. Bango won Mascot of the Year back in September after a vote from his peers (mascots). And now arrives word that Bango is also the Most Awesome Mascot, as determined by the Cartoon Network. Bango also stands out among members of the organization as someone who did not allow an offensive rebound to Joakim Noah in the first half tonight.
Boykins outplays Rose. Whereas some try to find any and every reason not to give the MVP to LeBron James, many of those same people try to find any and every reason to give the MVP to Derrick Rose. Particularly Bulls fans, who comprised a majority (though not supermajority) of the cheering tonight at the Bradley Center.
Rose is having a wonderful season, is a top ten player in the NBA at this point, and a top two or three player around which to build a team right now.
But on this night, his play hardly elicited the absolutely booming "MVP" chants that shook the BC. In fact, his 17/4/4 line on 7-19 shooting was instead a spot-on impression of Brandon Jennings as we know him. And while Jennings (4/0/2) did not live up to his own averages to match Rose, the fourth quarter saw Earl Boykins badly outplay Rose. Boykins scored 10 points 4-5 shooting and made both of his triples while not turning the ball over and playing the entire quarter. The Bulls only needed six minutes from Rose and they really only needed six of their 13 total points in the fourth to score more than Milwaukee's 75 points, but Rose sputtered while being splashed with the "MVP" chants down the stretch, missing four of his six shots. A small win within the loss.
Three Bad
Defensive rebounding. The Bucks started the evening as a top-five defensive rebounding team in the NBA. They ended the evening with a loss because they would not/could not properly box out.
Coach Skiles attributed their work on the glass, or lack thereof, as a matter of being "outhustled" by Chicago. If that is the case, it is an indictment on both the players (who are paid to give everything they have) and the coach (who is paid to motivate), because there is no possible reason why a team playing at home in front of a sellout crowd against their rival from down the road should not be hustling.
Joakim Noah (nine offensive rebounds... in the first half) was the real terror, and the Bucks grabbed 25 defensive rebounds while the Bulls hauled in 18 offensive rebounds, a startling ratio considering Milwaukee is up in the 70s in defensive rebound rate this season.
Ersan's concussion. Larry Sanders was recalled ahead of schedule from the Fort Wayne Mad Ants of the D-League, but the reason is because yet another Milwaukee Buck suffered a concussion, following in the footsteps headaches of Carlos Delfino, Luc Mbah a Moute, and Corey Maggette. This time, Ersan Ilyasova (who scored 17 points in his previous game against Chicago last month) is the fourth forward this season to suffer from symptoms of a concussion. Ilyasova was injured on Friday at practice according to Coach Skiles:
We warmed up and did a few things non-contact and went contact for about three minutes and practice was over basically because we were down to seven guys because he got hit. He had a black eye recently and took a bit of a shot from Brockman in the cheek area and had some symptoms so they decided to sit him out.
Franchise players. The Bucks started the fourth quarter with an Earl Boykins/Keyon Dooling/Corey Maggette/Larry Sanders/Jon Brockman fivesome, but I'm not sure that you need to go out of your way to tank when your franchise players are Andrew Bogut and Brandon Jennings. The duo combined for 10 points 4-16 shooting in 62 minutes. Jennings had more turnovers (3) than assists (2), and he attempted neither a free throw nor a three-pointer. Bogut shot 2-10 and is the anti-Carlos Boozer, which is at once a compliment to and knock on both Bogut and Boozer.
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concussions
Is Stern paying Brockman to injure all our guys to ruin the franchise? Seriously, we know this one and the CDR eye injury, which forced Salmons to play on a bum knee because we had no other 2 guard—-huge in our disappointing season. If Salmons comes back 5-7 games later after rest, his entire season is different, and so is our teams, IMO.
How many of the other concussions have come from this guy? Has he done this to any opponents, or just our own guys? I believe Kurt Thomas never concussed a teammate while in Milwaukee, but I could be wrong.
Giving up KT for this guy was way worse than losing Ridnour for Dooling/Boykins, although I’d still rather have kept Ridnour, too. IMO we could have kept both those guys and traded Redd at the deadline for whatever to get under the cap.
Pretty sure Bogut poked CD-R in the eye.
Dooling has been a serviceable back-up. Why invest in Ridnour when after the new CBA we will probably be able to pick-up a decent FA for less salary? I liked Ridnour but not for the price the Wolves got him for.
Also everyone seems to gloss over the fact Jennings doesnt make any of his teammates better. Not one. Look at all the other point guards in the league and the good ones make their teammates better. He also gets burnt by opposing guards regularly. I think the Bucks organisation and we as a fanbase may of talked him up to ourselves a bit too much.
Bogut should go on the injury list for the rest of the year. He’s clearly hampered by the elbow. This was once a player who could should mid-range jumpshots and even internation three pointers accurately and now his only consistent shot is to dunk it. What happened to the running hooks btw?
A very frustrating year to watch and one I will be glad to see over. Watching the Bucks play offense has been of the most frustrating things I have ever watched on a regular basis. Blame has to be put equally on players and the coaching staff.
Jennings
I agree about the Ridnour/Dooling discussion being overshadowed by Jennings’ problems. In fairness, Brandon was playing solid ball for much of the first month plus, but since coming back from the foot injury his shot has been awful even if he often looks as quick as ever. It certainly sounds like he is getting down on himself and the whole situation, which is worrying in the long term.
by Frank Madden on Feb 27, 2011 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
gotta keep perspective here....
All the slagging off of key players etc – ok fair enough its been a crap season. Bogut is playing poorly, Jennings treading water, Salmons seemed to age 20 years over the summer, Delfino throwing up airballs, Mbah a Moute missing layups as usual, Gooden’s foot completely ruined, Boykins and Dooling putting on serviceable yet rarely spectualr or inspiring play, Maggette still looking unsure whether he should be slashing to the basket every play or trying to be the all-round player
Injuries etc have obviously hampered that bucks this year – thats been discussed to death. Guys aren’t aplying well – discussed over and over.
In my view, it is the psychological impact of injuries and absence that are killing the bucks, in addition to the roster changes people have referred to.
Injuries – Have the Bucks had a full bench all year? I would be interested to see the stats on that. Chemistry, not enough time playing together etc…
I have posted elsewhere about this, but the key injury is Bogut; obviously physically (we are all seing the results of that), but psychologically. Watch Bogues during a game – he seems tired, as if he is struggling or in pain. Last year, the guy was pumped after doing things like right-handed tomahawks that put Big Baby on his arse or getting feisty after blocking Amar’e Stoudemire – this year he completes an epic swat and just looks up at the roof as though wishing the game would end.
The injury he suffered is as much mental as physical – pro athletes are often headcases as the line between a good and great performance is so small when you are in the rarified air of the NBA; if you are spending a lot of time believing your body will betray you, particularly if it stops you from doing something you used to be able to, it becomes self-fulfilling as doubt takes over. Bogut needs to have his surgery asap, do a full off-season of total rehab, become re-accustomed and comfortable with his body (whatever its new limitations may be) and not be be put back into a game until he is 100% right mentally.
The Bucks suffer because his fire is out, as it were. Last year, regardless of situation, he was hustling on D, shouting commands, giving the impression that they should never give up.
Roster changes – this gets a lot of discussion in general and Rex Coh Mundi notes that Dooling is an adequate backup, Ridnour too expensive etc. But in reality what the team lost in Ridnour was a clutch guy. How many times last year, particularly when the bucks were teetering on the edge of leeting a 7-8 point deficit turn into 15, or 15 turn into 25, did you see a dish to Ridnour at or near the top of the key and see him calmly drain a 3 – nothing but net. The guy could shoot lights out when he was on and was was super calm. Teams feed off this and find belief – as often as not a couple of minutes later the Bucks would have it level again. This worked especially with Jennings – the confidence guy – those two PG lineups with Jennings and Ridnour were like fire and ice; when Jennings was starting to freak out and go off the rails, Cool Hand Luke with the play to set things straight again.
Dooling is good, but he doesn’t bring that presence.
So when people are posting things like ’can’t use Bogut and Jennings as a cornerstone’ and ‘they suck let’s trade ‘em’ its gotta be remembered that these guys probably haven’t turned into crap overnight. The circumstances have changed; I mean Bogut is an even better defensive player this year than last (at least his rebounding and shot blocking suggest that) but its noticeable tha his O has dropped off. He is probably only about 5pts a game from the way people see him now vs. no-one caring, saying he has come back really well from his injury etc.
Jennings has come back to earth and is in that second year slump where the coasting on talent has run out, other teams have worked him out and he is struggling to adapt (ie. develop a solid passing game and 3pt shot for when other guards keep him out of the lane) and the general malaise that has come over the team affects guys like Jennings who feed on confidence. Jennings is also the kind of leader who needs to know guys are coming with him – he is not suited to leading a lone charge without backup – his play improves if he knows his team are with him in this way.
The Bucks lack belief and confidence in general. They can play better. They know this – its just hard to come out of it when your key guys are lost deep in self-doubt.
by 2-33 on Feb 27, 2011 8:31 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
Agreed that talk of getting rid of Bogut and Jennings because they are not “cornerstones” is missing the point. True: On a championship contender, Bogut is not a #1 and Jennings is not a #2. They are more like third or fourth or fifth players on a truly elite team (consider where they would fall in the pecking order in Miami, Los Angeles, Boston, San Antonio, etc.).
But unless their is a plan to get a LeBron/Kobe/Wade/Howard type of talent (and there isn’t, because they can’t), then the whole championship discussion is moot. And as we saw last year, Bogut and Jennings can excel in the right circumstances. Short of playing for the lottery every single season (a la the Clippers) the Bucks don’t really have a chance to get a top-tier talent to take them to the next level. And while the Clips now have Griffin (and Gordon), it sure took a long time, and even now, they are still among the league’s worst and there are no guarantees that they will become a great team. So for now, the “next level” is the playoffs, not a championship.
I don’t think the team should necessarily consider anyone untouchable, including Bogut and Jennings. But just about everyone is at a low selling point, so it follows in some senses that nothing happened at the trade deadline. I think where management went wrong was in the offseason when they failed to value the chemistry of last season — the team had pretty average talent but great chemistry. This year they had slightly better talent (but still pretty average) but among the worst chemistry. Then again, as referenced in the game story, Jennings, Bogut, Salmons, Delfino (last year’s heroes) did not do much of anything last night, and they have all underwhelmed all season. But I don’t think that replicating last season was ever possible — it felt like a special season then and now. Unfortunately, this is the season that feels a lot more normal as a Bucks fan.
It seems to me
Like you said, that the Bucks took last years’ chemistry for granted. Listening to Hammond’s interviews this year however, he didn’t seem too confident at all that this year would be a success. He was basically like, “We don’t know how this season is going to go” and he seemed to always stress that he had a lot of work to do with this team. I don’t know, he never seemed very thrilled with the prospects of this team, which begs the question, why did he spend so much money then? I’m not still convinced that he wasn’t pressured to make these decisions by ownership and others.
I would say no to trading Bogut, I would wait to see how he does when healthy. Jennings I think is a bit more expendable although I think It would take a high draft pick for starters. The problem with Jennings is that he has shown no indications that he can be a facilitator or a scorer since his first month. And he shows no signs that he wants to improve, or that he sees anything wrong with himself.
The Artist Formerly known as Speedingtime/Speedy
by Jacob Grinyer on Feb 27, 2011 3:49 PM CST up reply actions
Alex's dream/nightmare
Dream:
Fifth seed basketball every year.
Nightmare:
Taking the steps necessary to land a star.
by Jeremy Schmidt on Feb 27, 2011 5:26 PM CST up reply actions
The issue is that it’s not a matter of a fifth seed or a championship for the Bucks at present. More realistically, it’s a fifth seed every year or whatever is happening right now every year. Once the team takes the steps necessary to be a fourth or fifth seed (Orlando/OKC/New Orleans/Atlanta), they will conceivably be closer to becoming a championship contender.
Like I said, I don’t think anyone should be untouchable, and really only Bogut, Jennings, and Mbah a Moute (and probably Sanders) are worthwhile players for the future. But as long as they are here, the Bucks are probably going to be too good to be to get a number one pick. Ultimately, they just need to draft well, wherever that may be.
Boguts
not even a number one for the bucks… I love Bogues but he is a defensive wiz and a garbage man on offense. Bogut should be 1 or 2 but in reality is a 4 this year
"You don't play against opponents. You play against the game..." - Bobby Knight
Mainly because of his arm problems.
The Artist Formerly known as Speedingtime/Speedy
by Jacob Grinyer on Feb 27, 2011 10:21 PM CST up reply actions
Last year he wasn't a "garbageman", far from it.
Unless he’s really regressed that much.
The Artist Formerly known as Speedingtime/Speedy
by Jacob Grinyer on Feb 27, 2011 10:21 PM CST up reply actions
I think thats one of the better analysis of where we are at....
That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.
WTF
Delfino 37 minutes Maggette 14?
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
Maggette and CDR are the only guys on this team that can score.
Maggette doesnt play great defense or pass the ball enough, but he could probably gotten us over the 85 point mark last night.
I gots to put the team on my back, doo.
by BlackPack-fan on Feb 27, 2011 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
Facepalm.
The Artist Formerly known as Speedingtime/Speedy
by Jacob Grinyer on Feb 27, 2011 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
Same as the Knicks game
I wonder if Maggette’s back is still sore, otherwise no excuse.
by toasterrebound on Feb 27, 2011 11:09 AM CST up reply actions
"Maggette is the only guy on this team that can score."
Fixed :)
by Frank Madden on Feb 27, 2011 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
relatively wise, even Maggette has been dragged down by the Bucks stagnant offense
its an entity of its own
That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.
Too late Scott
Bringing in Earl. Also, about three of our shots went halfway down and came out. But Bogut was awful on offense.
by toasterrebound on Feb 27, 2011 11:11 AM CST reply actions
Must be something personal for CDR to keep racking up DNPs while guys continue to shoot 3-13 in 37mins of action
Sure we’ve seen the last of him in a Bucks uniform
by BuckEm on Feb 27, 2011 11:12 AM CST via mobile reply actions
anyone know if the media are asking Skiles why CDR is benched?
Seems like its happening in a vacuum – although I admit I haven’t looked very hard..
Seems like CDR was going through this the same time last year as well.
CDR was benched for good portions of last year as well, this could have just as much to do with CDR as it does with Skiles. Here is a decent article about what CDR went through last year with the Nets. Sounds awful familiar.
http://netsarescorching.com/2010/03/09/talking-about-chris-douglas-roberts-again/
by Brick's house on Feb 27, 2011 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not that big of a fan of CDR but.....
The guy has had some big scoring games and you might as well try to increase the demand for him if he’s not in your future plans.
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
by CanadaBucks on Feb 27, 2011 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
This was the biggest surprise to me about the deadline
If he’s buried in Skiles’ doghouse (for whatever reason, valid or not), then you’d guess they would have tried to give him away for anything at the deadline. I mean, there has to be some team that would take him for essentially nothing, right? He’s on a minimum contract (that’s expiring), so he shouldn’t be tough to move.
by Frank Madden on Feb 27, 2011 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
I've heard that he's kind of been a ....not so friendly person to Skiles
Although I don’t know that for sure.
The Artist Formerly known as Speedingtime/Speedy
by Jacob Grinyer on Feb 27, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
management and coaches seem to be just a bit stubborn re: this whole season
its kinda like these are the moves we made, these are guys we are sticking with, this is our style, this is how we play and damn the results we are sticking with it, everything we come around, well it hasnt and no one expects it to really change, its hardly inspiring
That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.
I'm very curious as what the Bucks' plan is going forward now.
Do they have a plan?
The Artist Formerly known as Speedingtime/Speedy
apparently dig a big a hole as possible, thrown out the shovel and we are using a earth excavator now
That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.
As the (other) Senator said
If you’re trying to get out of a hole, the first thing you do is start digging.
I never use a big word when a diminutive word would suffice.
man with a plan sign m up, though I prefer shutting down Bogut, and we all go on a bender
seriously though its hard to fathom, if a team kinda tunes a coach out, the first thing to go is the defense, which hasnt really been the case the defense especially earlier in the season was solid, and we definitely seemed to have increased our depth in the off season, maybe not with quality but quantity, lost a few productive wise heads, but its all been an almighty struggle
makes you wonder with what happened with Skiles in Chicago, but that bunch of guys seemed alot more volatile, and strong minded
That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.
I say if the Bucks are going to shut down Bogut, at least wait until Gooden is back.
This at least gives the Bucks more options at center. Gooden has had a rough year with most of his number under his career averages, but I don’t think he is as terrible as everyone else does. He has played the whole year on a bad foot. I am reserving judgment on him until he is healthy.
by Brick's house on Feb 27, 2011 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
it did seem kinda weird how he suddenly turned into a jump shooter, gotta figure it was the foot causing problems
otherwise Gooden has been a bread butter board man
That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.
Please tell me this is not sarcastic.
I love Jonathan Bender…and it would be a “feel good story” in a season that has had nothing good in it.
by HowardGreenFTW on Feb 27, 2011 4:23 PM CST up reply actions
I dont think anyone on the team and fans really knows whether last year was a fluke, or this year is the one to toss out
its a conundrum
That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.
Probably six of one
And you know the rest.
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
we have a footy saying down under
your only as good as your bottom six, of course that doesnt really help when everybody sucks, and of course we have 22 players in a match, actually it doesnt really apply at all, just thought we could some aussie ‘wisdom’
That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.
There's a football saying in North America
Defense wins championships…I guess it doesn’t hold true in hoops though as apparently defense wins squat.
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
yeah we got that one here too! of course my AFL team had the best defensive record the last two years and we lost the last two grand finals
defense is the cornerstone thats for sure, but you have to have a lead to defend first! Thats the frustrating thing about this team,
That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.
It should be
Defense wins championships, as long as your offense doesn’t suck.
The Artist Formerly known as Speedingtime/Speedy
by Jacob Grinyer on Feb 27, 2011 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
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