Revisiting Tempo-rature In Milwaukee
"This game is being played at Milwaukee's tempo."
But what happens when a team plays badly at "their" pace? And when they play quite well not at "their" pace?
This was precisely what was happening with Milwaukee by Feb. 1, when we first made connections between Milwaukee playing better in faster-paced games. Back then, the sample sizes were smaller, but the trend had already emerged. And it stayed true all the way through the final week of the season.
After the final home game of the year, in the final post-game presser of the year at the BC, I asked Scott Skiles about the Bucks racking up 22 fastbreak points against the clearly more athletic Raptors:
We believe in a pretty simple philosophy. Play good defense, rebound the ball, and run every time. Now, getting guys to do that is very difficult. We want to run every single time. They (Toronto) are not a great transition defensive team. But we were getting them (fastbreak points) more off of just deflections and steals than we were off actual rebounds and running. It's something that you to create, make happen, by running the floor. Then the people who have the ball have to make good decisions and deliver the ball.
In Milwaukee's 41 fastest-paced games, they went 23-18. In their slowest 41 games, they went 12-29.
Milwaukee finished the season as the sixth slowest team in the NBA, according to pace factor. This contrasted with the style that Skiles brought to the NBA when his Suns and Bulls teams finished among the fastest 11 teams in the NBA in each of his first eight years as head coach. His aforementioned comments after the final home game reinforced what he told me pretty much every time I asked about pushing the ball. And his coaching history suggests that although he is known for a grinding defensive style, he really does want to push the pace on offense.
And for good reason. The Bucks were absolutely dreadful running half court offense. Brandon Jennings typically gave up the ball early in the shot clock, most commonly to John Salmons on the wing. What happened from there was usually a series of back-and-forth passes and dribbles that spanned the vast majority of the shot clock. A lot of contested jumpers and not much momentum going toward the rim.
But the Bucks compounded offensive misery by finishing dead last in the NBA by averaging 10.0 fastbreak points per game. Not an ideal scenario for a club in the top half of the league in steals and with the NBA's leading shot-blocker. The team was great defensively all season, finishing fourth in efficiency, and they created plenty of chances to run, both off turnovers and by a lot of missed shots by opponents. But ultimately, all of that defense never translated into any offense. For a counterexample, the Grizzlies used a very good defense (9th overall) to spur its offense (16th overall). Whereas the Bucks restarted on every change of possession, the Grizzlies turned one into the other, averaging 16.4 fastbreak points.
Personnel issues play a role here. Andrew Bogut plods down the court. Salmons is not the most vivacious starting two guard these days. Jennings improved at the rim but goes up with his left hand no matter the angle. Corey Maggette was really the only consistent finisher, but he was too predictable, turning three-on-ones into one-on-ones. Despite that, the evidence shows that Milwaukee can and positively did play better in faster-paced games -- they played far better when they played at the other team's tempo.
Just after halfway through the season, I pleaded to "Beam me up-tempo, Scotty." At the time, the Bucks had an 89.9 pace factor. Final pace factor? 89.8.
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A nice piece Alex, and I also caught up on your earlier work on the subject. I can't find any updated data for the Speed Index metric, do you know if the creator followed through in any way? It seemed like a very cool new stat...
Looking at the D-rating v. pace stats, it is interesting to find that of all the above-average teams in pace, only two of those teams (Pacers at 12th rated D, and the Thunder as the 15th rated D) had above-average D-Ratings.
Furthermore, only half of the teams above-average in pace (7 of the top 14) are also above-average in O-Rating.
Finally, only five of the above-average teams in terms of pace made the playoffs (Knicks, Nuggets, Pacers, Thunder, and Spurs), and nearly all of them are underdogs in the first round.
I am not necessarily refuting your point about wanting the Bucks to increase their pace though. The Bucks’ relative success at a higher pace probably stems from the fact that they have very few (or maybe no) true play-makers or isolation creators on the team, which would seem to contribute to lower success rates in half court sets compared to some other lower pace teams…when out on the break the Bucks players had clear driving lanes and less defenders to beat at once, so the trend makes some sense on a conceptual level to me. Just interesting how the truly high-paced teams fared in terms of offensive and defensive efficiency.
Adam Dunn is Chicago Tough: "I’m a quick healer, like Wolverine. I asked the doctor yesterday how long these things take and he gave me a general answer for the public. I’m subtracting 15 days off it."
by Juan Uribe's Plate Discipline on Apr 21, 2011 12:53 AM CDT reply actions
extremey frustrating watching the Bucks half court offense, just a mess
thats why its disappointing as Alex mentioned that we were not able to use our defensive efforts to key a faster pace on the offensive end, for a team that obviously struggles, even when its playing relatively well like last season, attempting to get easy baskets when transitioning from defensive stops and opposition turnovers seems like a no brainer
last season Salmons seemed alot more adept at creating something or attacking the lane and being able to draw contact, whilst this season he was the opposite, yet we werent able or willing to change the programme
I fail to understand why its hard to get the team to ‘run’ if you can get them to do alot of the grunt work on defense, even then your sticking with the same guys who aren’t doing what your supposedly pressing them to do according to Skiles quote
That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.
It's also easier to break when guys leak out
It’s not really part of the Bucks’ DNA to leak out/cherry pick, which I think is a major part of the story for the Warriors and Raptors (top two in fast breaking). That emphasis on making sure you finish defensive possessions before breaking out is definitely part of it IMO.
Taking off on JUPD’s point, it’s interesting that there’s also little correlation between turnovers/fast break points as well. The Hornets, Bucks, and Blazers are all top seven in defensive turnover rate but were the bottom three in fast break pts/game. Chicago and Boston also in the bottom third in transition points despite ranking highly in forced turnover rate. The Warriors were the exception to the rule.
http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/fastbreak-points-per-game
http://knickerblogger.net/statpage/2011/d_to4.htm
by Frank Madden on Apr 21, 2011 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah thats a fair call re: finishing defensive possessions
to be honest im not sure that we would be hugely better at a faster pace on offense this season, but It would mean less half courts sets which were horrid, tired of hoisting up poor shots and long twos, and even when we got open shots we were not adept at making them any better……..no wonder we were screwed in the offensive stats!
That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.
I know a its a criticism here of Skiles that all that matters is if you W
but I still believe that defensive basis is a better building building block for general success, its takes a longer period to instill that defensive attitude and responsibility right? And the better teams tend to be able to win ‘ugly’ when they slightly off their game, which is easier to do if your defensive minded, I realise the balance has to be adjusted after this season
That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.
Thanks, Plate Discipline. Not sure about developments on the Speed Index thing. I will plan to get in touch with Rohan about that, as I found it really interesting.
Great call pointing out that most of the fast teams did not have a lot of success. As a counterpoint, Skiles coached the Suns 00-01 Suns to 51 wins while ranking 6th in pace, 2nd in defensive efficiency, and 22nd in offensive efficiency. That sounds reasonable to me. Similarly, Skiles coached the 06-07 Bulls to 49 wins while ranking 6th in pace, 1st in defensive efficiency, and 21st in offensive efficiency. Coincidentally, those are his two winningest seasons as head coach.
So he has some precedents of pushing the ball with reasonable success on different, great defensive teams. Obviously different personnel, but there are reasons why Skiles talks about wanting to run.
The Bucks offense needs just one direction...
…insert pacemaker here >>>>>>
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
Is Bogut really a "plodder"?
Sure, he’s not David Robinson – but the Kings’ teams from the early 2000’s had Vlade Divac[and later Brad Miller] and they still ran a beautiful, up-tempo offense.
There’s obviously more than one reason the Bucks offense was so ugly for most of the season, but Bogut’s limited athletic/sprinting ability is way down on the list, IMO.
more like he takes a some time to get into motion getting back from defense understandbly
That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.
The trouble is ...
We have wings who are plodders ….;)
I remember Skiles calling him out at some point this year
Saying that his bad elbow shouldn’t affect his ability to get back down the court.
And Skiles said again at the end of the year that Bogut just needs to get in better condition period.
I love Bogut, but I do think that this is one area where he doesn’t seem to be giving maximum effort.
by ZV on Apr 21, 2011 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Bogut was really quite slow getting up the court this season, but he is a pretty skilled outlet passer. And as they say in soccer, the ball moves faster than anyone can dribble. So I don’t think Bogut is necessarily holding them back in that sense.
He's the lynchpin of the defense,
and since LRMaM is the only other A-level defender on the team, he’s got his hands full. He’s probably still thinking about that arm, too.
I look for Bogut to really get after it this offseason and come back in the same form he was in 09-10.
"Finished putting together an Excel spreadsheet at work? BELT. Finally managed to open that uncooperative jar of mayonnaise? BELT. We're all champions in our own ways, my friends." - Frank Madden, BrewHoop
by Mitchell Maurer on Apr 22, 2011 7:41 AM CDT up reply actions
To that point ...
Wes Unseld was hardly a fly chaser ;)
Point for Brandon Jennings!
The way I remember it, the Bucks play half-court inept offense becasue that’s the way Skiles likes it. I don’t believe Bogut is the problem on offense.
The way I see it, this article makes it 1-0 in favor of Brandon Jennings. Scott Skiles is his opponent.
"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...
by Power(less) Forward on Apr 21, 2011 10:01 AM CDT reply actions
But if we set it up as a competition between Skiles and Jennings, then Jennings has to be investigated for a point-shaving scandal...
Because his work in the half-court could be considered sabotage to Skiles’ plan.
Adam Dunn is Chicago Tough: "I’m a quick healer, like Wolverine. I asked the doctor yesterday how long these things take and he gave me a general answer for the public. I’m subtracting 15 days off it."
by Juan Uribe's Plate Discipline on Apr 21, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good one!!!
That’s not how Jennings likes/prefers to play…
I wonder who will win that battle. I am rooting for Jennings, for various reasons.
"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...
by Power(less) Forward on Apr 21, 2011 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
To be fair, are we really sure about that?
I mean, obviously Jennings looks better in the open court because of his speed and the fact that he can finish easier, but I don’t know if we’ve heard/seen enough to determine that he’s naturally a transition player. Maybe though. More would certainly seem to help him.
www.Brewhoop.com, http://where55happens.wordpress.com
by Dan Sinclair on Apr 21, 2011 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
With better wings
Jennings could be a better transition player. There has to be more of a threat from our wings, which would make defenses not focus on Jennings as much. I contend that we will continue to be marginal to bad offensively until we get more consistent at the 2 and 3.
Small sample...
From a small sample, because the opportunities have not been there, it seems clear to me that Jennings is much better at a fast-paced kind of game. He also seems to like it more.
Best of all, using the stats provided by the author (which I agree with), it would seem the Bucks benefit from and play better when they “run.”
For now, I will introduce a term I came up with not long ago. I will explain it later, when/if the conversation requires it. The Bucks play better, and win many more games when the “ball is happy.”
"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...
by Power(less) Forward on Apr 21, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sold on the idea that it's Skiles' doing
To the extent that the Bucks don’t run because they’re forced to play defense first, then I’m OK with that and it begins with Skiles. But Skiles has always talked about wanting to push the tempo and his previous teams have always done that. And I don’t see evidence that Skiles is putting the brakes on the way Jennings wants to play, unless you categorize his decision not to play Maggette/CD-R as such. Either way, Skiles seems fine with guys jacking up as many shots as they want if they’re doing what he wants them to do on defense.
To Dan’s point, I’m also not sold that Brandon’s a particularly great open court player—at least not with the guys he has around him. By himself he has a very hard time finishing against bigger players whether he’s in the open court or not, so it’s probably not surprising that he often backs it out rather than trying to attack one-on-one. That would be less of an issue if he had good, active transition guys with him, but the two guys brought in to do that this year couldn’t get on the court (Maggette/CD-R).
by Frank Madden on Apr 21, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
agreed, I think thats one thing consistent with Skiles throughout his coaching career
make the effort on the defensive end and you get leeway going back the other way, but offensively in 3 season under Skiles we have struggled, I think sometimes with 46 wins last year we forget how we struggled on offense still and and it wasnt smooth in anyway
That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.
Thank for your response, Frank.
I believe Skiles preaches “run” as dictated by defensively-created opportunities. I can’t quote links or anything like that, but I have either read or heard something about Skiles imposing the half-court game.
I believe it’s good thinking on Skiles part because by doing so, it takes clock away from the other teams. Still, I am not so sure coach and PG are not exactly on the same page as it relates to running or not.
This I remember – This season, when Bogut and others were out, Skiles mentioned during an interview that they would need to play small and run more because there was no other choice. Or something to that regard.
"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...
by Power(less) Forward on Apr 21, 2011 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Ouch.
That’s just mean.
"Finished putting together an Excel spreadsheet at work? BELT. Finally managed to open that uncooperative jar of mayonnaise? BELT. We're all champions in our own ways, my friends." - Frank Madden, BrewHoop
by Mitchell Maurer on Apr 21, 2011 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Bogut could still help tremendously
He’s at least an above-average passer, and maybe even a good one, but I think Frank is spot-on with his comment about finishing defensive possessions. Bogut’s a great rebounder, but he isn’t left alone on defense with the responsibility to grab defensive boards. It’s more of a team effort, evidenced by above average (for their position) defensive rebound rates for Jennings, Salmons, Delfino, Luc, and Maggette. Those guys all tend to hang back until the rebound is secured.
You know, a full season of Drew Gooden could really help this, I think. With he and Bogut handling defensive rebounds, you’ve got two strong guys pulling down boards that you can rely on, maybe freeing up some of the wings to get going down the court. At that point athleticism and passing ability become an issue, but I like the idea, in principle.
www.Brewhoop.com, http://where55happens.wordpress.com
One more point of evidence...
…thin as it may be. Those two teams that Frank mentioned as good examples of transition fast-breakers/leakers—the Warriors and Raptors—rank worst and seventh-worst in defensive rebound rate. Nothing comes free!
www.Brewhoop.com, http://where55happens.wordpress.com
by Dan Sinclair on Apr 21, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
helps on the fast break when your C is out on the 3pt line already I guess
not that I want to knock the Raps without them we would be stuck on 31 wins this season
That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.
About the Raps
There’s some feeling that Colangelo will be gone by draft time and Wayne Embry will be given interim GM status once again. That would likely spell the end for Triano as well. Was reading the Raptors counterpart of BrewHoop and most bloggers feel Bargs will be traded prior to the draft as well. That’s going to be a tough one to pull off IMO.
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
You mean there's NOT a market for 7-footers who can't rebound, can't defend, and are only above-average shooters?
surely, you jest
"Finished putting together an Excel spreadsheet at work? BELT. Finally managed to open that uncooperative jar of mayonnaise? BELT. We're all champions in our own ways, my friends." - Frank Madden, BrewHoop
by Mitchell Maurer on Apr 22, 2011 7:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually I though for a minute if...
Toronto would take Salmons and Ilyasova would you do it? Probably not but the thought of maybe using bargs as a 4 and Luc as your 3 would be interesting.
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
I guess it could work.
Bargs would not be required to rebound too much with Luc/Maggette/Delfino able to take up the slack. He could become the reliable perimeter threat that we lack and play more as a SF on O. Not sure how he’d fit into a Skiles defensive structure tho…
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
by Big Crazy Dave on Apr 22, 2011 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
And to be clear, I'm not really taking my comments seriously...
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
by Big Crazy Dave on Apr 22, 2011 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
That's the thing
I’m like no way…but yet it might work. His contract is too long and bad to really think about it, but I think he would fit in well here in certain aspects.
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
He's a good shooter, correct? Then he'd fit in well : )
I’d swap him for Salmons & Ersan in a sec. I think he’s put up better numbers each yr.
40m over 4 years though
That’s the problem, but it is intriguing
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
If we could swap Salmoms in the deal, it's not that bad, IMO
Bargs is still young and looks to be getting better – he’s also that shooter we don’t have.
I shudder to think how bad salmons will be nxt yr.
The drawback of playing Luc at the 3 on offense is too much
Dude still can’t shoot.
"Finished putting together an Excel spreadsheet at work? BELT. Finally managed to open that uncooperative jar of mayonnaise? BELT. We're all champions in our own ways, my friends." - Frank Madden, BrewHoop
by Mitchell Maurer on Apr 23, 2011 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Luc can guard almost anybody
but almost anybody can guard Luc. On an offense as bad as the Bucks’, either he needs to improve drastically or he won’t be able to get as much PT as his defense merits.
"Finished putting together an Excel spreadsheet at work? BELT. Finally managed to open that uncooperative jar of mayonnaise? BELT. We're all champions in our own ways, my friends." - Frank Madden, BrewHoop
by Mitchell Maurer on Apr 23, 2011 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
The Bucks don't maximize the value of LRMAM's skillset, and they probably never will as long as Skiles is coach.
They aren’t loaded with offensive talent to begin with (which would allow him to simply be a matchup defender, board crasher, and occassional slasher), but Skiles won’t ever play offensive oriented lineups either because of his strict demands on defense.
This raises the issue of what to do in the offseason, because I believe LRMAM is more valuable to other teams than he is to the Bucks. They can’t get caught in a bidding war for this reason, and maybe LRMAM is a potential sign and trade guy. But if other teams can utilize his talents better, they will probably be willing to pay him more money than the Bucks should pay him
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.
by Steve von Horn on Apr 23, 2011 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I have to agree 100%
I think he will be worth more to us in a sign-and-trade and then maybe I’m warmer to keeping Delfino. Just don’t want to go into the season with Luc, Delfino and Maggette all at SF.
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
Is it just me
Or do you all think Carlos Delfino has the ability to attack the rim a lot more than he shows? I mean I still remember last year’s fantastic throwdown he had against the Hawks in Game 4. That was no “gimme” dunk. That was raw athleticism on display and it showed he has the explosion and strength to finish strong.
I think the offense, even in the half court set, needs to look to screen more for Delfino to get a lane to the hoop. He is the team’s best shooter, but I think driving it more is something he could excel at as well.
it would sure help his offensive game
otherwise basically his offensive game lives and dies by his three point shot there isnt much in between which is a shame because I like what he brings to the table as an all round player for the Bucks
That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.
My sense of Delfino's athleticism
… is that it’s good enough to allow him to penetrate but not really strong enough to be a tool of attack. (Unless he never fully regained conditioning after the head wound.) I think he needs to see a flaw in the defense – which happens more often against poor teams than good ones, more often in the casual parts of games than in the clutch parts.
But my main observation about him is that ALL the subtleties Delfino brings to playing ball he has to bring on his own. I don’t see that his teammates dislike him (why would they!?). But they DON’T USE HIM. Except for 3-point shots. He’s like a stereotyped actor – his teammates don’t see the range of what he can do (except sometimes as passive observers) and they go to him only for that one 3-pt specialty.
This is another part of why I maintain that we have a roster comprised of pretty darn smart individuals that ACHIEVE VERY LITTLE in playing together. On offense, our team is dumb. Which feeds into the terrible scoring because the shots are poor and the bad clutch performance. Fans and the franchise itself acknowledge that this year’s chemistry was bad. IT WILL IMPROVE IF they play together, and I don’t know why they can’t.
Jennings “cataracts” as a young PG are part of it. But there must be more…
I very much agree, of course
Bogut seams the only teammate to give him the ball in another position than long distance shots.
And about penetrating, he has to feel in great physical condition. And as Chuck noted, he won’t do it if he doesn’t see a flaw in the rival’s defense. He’s the kind of player that likes to come unnoticed, waiting for opportunities for himself and teammates.





















