Robert 'Tractor' Traylor found dead, Off-season priorities, Bad-luck Bucks?
JSOnline: Report: Robert 'Tractor' Traylor found dead
Tragic news out of Puerto Rico, where a report appeared on a Facebook Page for a Puerto Rican professional basketball team saying former Bucks player Robert Traylor has died. Initial reports that Traylor suffered a heart attack were not confirmed. Traylor had heart surgery in 2006 to correct an enlarged heart valve.
Traylor was acquired in a draft-day trade with the Dallas Mavericks during the 1998 Draft when he was sent to Milwaukee in exchange for fellow-draftees Dirk Nowitzki and Pat Garrity. While hindsight views this as an extraordinarily lopsided trade, the circumstances at the time were more complicated than many remember. The Mavericks' interest in Dirk was enough to warrant picking him with their #6 pick, but knowing that few other teams were as high on the German prospect, Dallas was able to gain an extra pick by selecting Traylor and trading down with Milwaukee, who had a strong interest in 'Tractor.' Pat Garrity was in turn traded for Phoenix reserve point guard Steve Nash.
We at Brew Hoop express our deepest sympathy for Traylor's family and friends. Traylor was 34 years old.
Additional coverage: CBSSports.com, SBNation Cleveland, ESPN
Bucksketball: Discussing Off-Season Priorities: Part 1 | Part 2
Jeremy, Ian, and Josh discuss what they feel are the biggest issues facing the Milwaukee Bucks this off-season. They all agree on one thing: there are plenty of issues. Additional wing scoring and a true backup center stand out as key needs, but where should Milwaukee look? The guys examine the draft, free agency, and potential trades to shore up the team.
Where 55 Happens: Pythagoras Loves Basketball: 2010-2011 Season
I finish off the 2010-2011 season's examination of Milwaukee's Pythagorean numbers. How much did plain-old bad luck hurt the Bucks this season? Plus, a reason to hope!
JSOnline: 'Greyhound' always able to scratch his niche
A retrospective on Bobby Dandridge, the quick small forward annointed as the "Greyhound" by Bucks radio announcer Eddie Doucette. Dandridge was a key contributor to the Bucks 1971 Championship team, but his lack of acclaim led former Bucks GM Wayne Embry to call his efforts "underappreciated." As a young'un myself, I never got the chance to bask in the glory of a Milwaukee championship run, but it sure makes reading these articles fun.
ESPN: Gottlieb's big board
Doug Gottlieb knows plenty about college basketball, so he's certainly seen a lot from this year's top NBA prospects. His top 30 features some surprises, with projected top-10 picks sliding down his Big Board while predicted late first-round selections take their places. Who you choose to trust? That's your decision. Edit: this is an Insider link not available for free. Check the comments for a quick little summary.
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This link: ESPN: Gottlieb's big board
goes to ESPN Insider; have to pay up to read
Quick summary
He has Tristan Thompson (3), Chris Singleton (4), and Kenneth Faried (6) ahead of Derrick Williams (7). Kemba Walker at 17, Valanciunas at 20…
by Frank Madden on May 11, 2011 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I better not get started...
… with my PF rants until later. From your quick summary, I don’t see much from Thompson and Singleton. However, I like Faried’s game. I am sure you “knew” that already… [smile]
Please remember an earlier disclaimer. I don’t watch college basketball. I base most of my opinions on stuff I read vs the few games I watch.
"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...
by Power(less) Forward on May 11, 2011 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Gottlieb
Probably watches almost every single college bball highlight each season, if not almost every single game. I’m not sure there are many guys who watch as much college basketball as this fellow wisconsinite.
http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/doug-gottliebs-nba-draft-big-board
Somewhat unrelated, but he really managed to escape that whole misdemeanor fraud and dismissal from the ND basketball team thing...
For those who don’t know, during Gottlieb’s freshman year at Notre Dame, he stole credit cards from a roommate and fraudulently charged over $900 to those cards; subsequently, he was expelled from the team and eventually convicted of misdemeanor fraud.
He’s an….interesting guy…but not a bad analyst.
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.
by Steve von Horn on May 11, 2011 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I generally like him as an analyst
I think it’s good to question the “prevailing wisdom” around the draft, as there’s definitely a major problem with group think once a bunch of rankings come out. But a number of these are real head-scratchers—guys like Singleton and Faried are neither obvious upside guys nor finished products, which makes you wonder how they can rank ahead of players both younger and more productive than them.
by Frank Madden on May 11, 2011 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions
None of the mock drafts have Singleton even sniffing top 15
So Gottleib must be a genius or idiot ;)
I like Singleton, but now, today, I would opt for Jordan Hamilton.
That is correct!
I must agree, at least, with the fact I believe Walker is not really that good. I don’t know what all the hype about him is all about. Because of where he played?
"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...
by Power(less) Forward on May 11, 2011 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Faried may be a useful player
Kind of like Bo Outlaw was but not on the Bucks please
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
Faried
For those not familiar, video scouting report is a good place to start:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kenneth-Faried-5325/
To me the big question is whether he’s big/strong enough to defend bigger NBA 4s. Guys who rebound like he does can usually find a niche, but having a real position defensively is really important if he’s going to be more than a bench energy guy.
by Frank Madden on May 11, 2011 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
My "board"
I don’t see Faried as being worthy of a 10th pick. I would love to see the Bucks drafting or trading for him later in the draft.
My “board,” as the Bucks GM, has three players I would draft with my 10th pick. The first two players are tied for my first priority. I would take the third player if the other two are taken.
1- The guy whose name is similar to the famous German ship (Bismark).
2- Jordan Hamilton (in my opinion, he is better than Leonard and Burks)
3- Valanciunas (spelling?)
I would know who to draft depending on who I know I can trade away.
Sorry for getting started with this conversation so early.
"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...
by Power(less) Forward on May 11, 2011 2:55 PM CDT reply actions
How dare you talk draft so early?
:)
Biyombo is a fascinating player…I watched the Hoops Summit and it was hard not to be impressed. On the one hand he was dominating high school kids, but then again he’s also been productive in the second best league in the world lately (Spanish ACB). He’s very strong, athletic, and has obvious natural instincts as a rebounder/shot-blocker. You could certainly see him being a very useful NBA player even if he never expands his offensive game.
by Frank Madden on May 11, 2011 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I, I, I, but, but, but...
My kind of player! Thanks for the comment.
"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...
by Power(less) Forward on May 12, 2011 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Bucks Rant
Have to have the worst front office decisions in sports history. Look at where this franchise is now…on the verge of several options that don’t include goodness, much less greatness.
Kareem, Dr J, and Big O…ON ONE ROSTER! Whoa, did we blow that. The Lakers and 76ers are legendary for 2 of those guys. How many championships does that add up to? Where does that put us in the all time championships list.
Bucks trade Dirk and Garrity for Traylor in 1998. This is a team that has Ray Allen, Big Dog, and Sam Cassell already and 4 years later this team is in the EC finals without Dirk. Forget San An, LA, and Detroit…the Bucks are here for more. Alenn/Robinson/Cassell/Norwitzki and GARRITY of all ppl! lol
Haislip, Alexander, Collier, Yi, David Noel, TJ Ford since then. In addition to Bogut over CP3 and D Will.
This needs an ESPN 30 for 30. This has to be one of the most tragic sports stories ever told.
That said, RIP Tractor Traylor. I’m not mad at Tractor Traylor, he’s the name that gets the dirty end of this convo every time, but the names that should instead receive the targeted grief are Herb Kohl, Chris Ford, and Bob Weinhauer.
RIP Tractor Traylor
Never saw him play, but don’t have to to know that it’s tragic.
The Artist Formerly known as Speedingtime/Speedy
If I recall correctly, the Bucks never had a shot at Dirk?
And Bogut over CP3 and D Will was a no-brainer at the time.
Bogut was rated higher than both coming out of College – and Milw had two promising PGs at the time.
Of course we all know how things turned out – but the bogut pick was one move you really can’t fault Larry Harris for. 90% of the GMs would have made the same pick given the circumstances, IMO. [just be glad he didn’t pick M williams]
Yep
Nellie was going to get Dirk no matter what happened…if the Bucks hadn’t agreed to the prearranged deal then Nelson could have just drafted him sixth. Which isn’t to say the Bucks knew what they were doing—they wanted TT after all, and passed on Paul Pierce to get him. But because he was technically traded for Dirk that’s what everyone will remember about him.
by Frank Madden on May 11, 2011 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
In essence the Bucks
Traded 9 and 19 for 6. if we didn’t know the names it wouldn’t be a big deal…..And plus I don’t think the bucks ever had a shot at Dr. J. I’m sure he was already in the ABA when the Bucks drafted him, maybe you can fault the Bucks for drafting him but it might have been the kind of move that would have paid off like when the Cowboys drafted Hershel Walker in the 6th round or something similiar
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
Forgot to mention too that
Even the Haislip pick really wasn’t that horrible when you consider that not many of the players drafted after him are/were any better.
casey Jacobsen, Juan Dixon, Jiri Welsch(yuck), Chris Jeffrie, Ryan Humphries. 2002 Draft was not one of the best. And worst franchise decisions of all-time………Imagine being a Buffalo Braves/Clippers fan……..
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
You're correct
I remember that being a weak-ass draft.
Weak like what
the Yao Ming, Jay Williams, Nene, Amare, Caron Bulter part before Haislip
or
the Carlos Boozer, Tayshaun Prince, John Salmons, Luis Scola…heck even Matt Barnes, Roger Mason, or even Nenad Kristic after Haislip part?
Not sure too many drafts produce more productive players than that.
by FearTheDeer on May 12, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
The players after Haislip
I was basically agreeing with you ….
One can always look back and say "what if"
But when a team repeatedly makes a bad pick, then you can start to critique …The Bucks have made some questionable picks, but lately, they have not been bad enough to get top 5 chances. It’s like we have to be real bad so we get a shot at some of the blue-chippers. Seems like we’re always at #10 ….
I was saying in the 15 or so picks after haislip
In the first round anyway there were 2 or 3 good pick so it wasn’t just the Bucks failed. boozer and Scola second round IIRC so it’s easy to say now they should have picked someone else but most GMs missed those ones. not saying the Bucks have been geniuses but it’s not as bad as you made it sound.
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
by CanadaBucks on May 12, 2011 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, sorry
I didn’t have time to look at every single draft pick “before” we picked. Again, I was talking AFTER we picked Haislip. Sure, there was Boozer, et al ..but like you said, many teams missed on that one.
My point is that, in a lot of years, we have been JUST good enough to pick 10-15 …and that if you look at memphis and Ok City, and some other teams, they have been willing to really SUCK so that they can try to build with youth. Not the Bucks ..nooooo ..cuz Herb Kohl can’t decide what he wants and is so worried about the organization’s image ..not to knock him too much, but he IS a politician, right?
Herb Kohl is a "win now" owner
It’s why he changes course so often with hiring.
The bottom line, Canada ...
This team is in serious trouble. We have some bad contracts and barely good enough “core” players. We gotta stop piling failure on top of failure by being dis-honest about how good we think we are. Hammond’s moves last season were a bit of a panic ..and now we are stuck with Gooden and Salmons. I understand “why” he did it, but he was banking on that small number of games at the end of the 2009-2010 season to be representative of the team going forward. Where is the plan? There really is no plan?
The Bucks remind me of the Houston Astros of recent times. They can’t decide whether they want to concentrate on veterans or youn players. They overrate their veterans, and become kind of a “tweener” in player development. Sure, it’s a different sport, but as an avid baseball fan, the Bucks kind of remind me of them.
Bottom line is we agree
I actually wan’t really trying to counter you, it was FTDs claim that Bucks management is riddled with poor decisions. I remember last year toward the end of the season some of us were saying that we needed to do this slowly with a few minor changes, then all the trades and signings happened and we all got carried away. now back to earth. try to draft well, make trades to get younger and less commitment if possible and decide on your course. Mediocrity sucks as you say, can’t get high enough for an impact player.
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
Not only bad drafts...
… or bad draft picks.
The frustration gets worse when Bucks fans see some “not so bad” picks getting wasted and/or traded before they develop.
Is it all on the senator?
Does he hire incompetent people on purpose?
Does he make them do incompetent things?
To this day, I still can’t comprehend the Joe Alexander pick, espcially what they did after they drafted him. They said all the right things. Explained everything to perfection. Made me believe. For me, that’s the beginning of the current “double-talk regime.”
By the way, I also want Jodie Meeks back…
"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...
by Power(less) Forward on May 12, 2011 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with you on Meeks
Never got a decent chance, the trade in itself was a waste tbh, i know the Bucks wanted a 3rd point but to give up on Meeks to get Ivey?
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
People may say...
… that having a conversation like this is “hindsight,” “looking back,” etc.
I don’t see it that way because the mistakes the Bucks make just seem to happen time after time. It’s like looking back “fearing” the future, or in better words “fearing” what the Bucks will do wrong next time.
"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...
by Power(less) Forward on May 12, 2011 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think it had that much to do with Ivey...
…as much as they just wanted to hit the reset button on Meeks. He was an undersized shooter who couldn’t shoot, so they dealt him for what he was—an early second round pick. I’m guessing the lack of consistent burn really threw off JM’s shot, but the Bucks have been a very impatient team with young players.
by Frank Madden on May 12, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Boy that last half of that last sentence is almost enough to make me cry...
At least it’s stated in the past tense, but I really don’t have much hope it won’t continue to be true under Skiles.
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.
by Steve von Horn on May 12, 2011 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Mr. Von Horn...
… for $400.
Who is Larry Sanders?
"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...
by Power(less) Forward on May 12, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Sigh. It became really disturbing when the Bucks had no hopes at the playoffs and Skiles still wouldn't play him...
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.
by Steve von Horn on May 12, 2011 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Impatient!!!
That’s the right word. An accurate way to describe it.
Maybe the Bucks need(ed) the red-head guy they had during the summer league. That guy could really shoot!
Just kidding…
"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...
by Power(less) Forward on May 12, 2011 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm going to miss summer league this year...it would have been fun.
What a shame.
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.
by Steve von Horn on May 12, 2011 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL
Those don’t right the problem. If we were never going to pick Dirk at 9 we were foolish and if we never had a shot at Dr J, we were foolish. Either way, we look bad.
Group Think
I kind of feel like the Bucks just have had very poor scouting over the years and tend to just select the BPA according to the ESPN top 100 instead of the team generated Bucks top 100. Most sites/analysts base there decisions on these lists, but that fact that there is so much consistency on these lists shows exactly the problem…too much group think, not enough independent evaluation.
I realize I am defending the Bucks too much
They have made some pretty bad decisions, and (sorry Steve) the ray Allen trade was the worst of them. Charlie bell and Danny G. were right up there as I learned from watching the Raptors when Glen Grunwald signed all his role players to long-term big contracts. I can’t blast the decisions last summer too much, I think that it was all about trying to keep the momentum of a resurgence of hoops popularity in Milwaukee, I am wiling to give them a break on injuries, but this is the year that i really want to see results.
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
What about practice?
You guys are all making fair points, and If I had to fall on one side of the line I would agree that the Bucks are often too impatient, but simply not seeing the court doesn’t always mean a team has given up on a player, especially a young guy.
I think practice is an element of professional sports that gets consistently overlooked. While the lack of summer league and potential lockout does complicated things, I’m still hopeful that additional time spent practicing with the team (sans injuries, too) will go a long way toward helping Sanders improve.
I remember a guy from Football Outsiders (I think) getting interviewed on Bill Simmons’ podcast (bear with me). He talked about the problem with old football teams is that they don’t feel like they need to practice as much because they’re either set in their ways or don’t think there’s much to improve. It was basically a way of explaining why veterans can sometimes be overrated in terms of helping a team improve. I think the same is true for basketball.
So while the Bucks have a few veterans that are playing pretty big roles, their core (Bogut, Jennings, maybe Sanders?) is still young enough that plain-old practicing is hugely important. I hate to make excuses for the past season’s Bucks, but there was probably a little truth to Skiles’ complaining about never having a full unit together to work on drills and such.
Whew, that was too long…
www.Brewhoop.com, http://where55happens.wordpress.com
I see them differently.
Probably impossible to quantify, but I don’t believe the percentages of how much a player benefits from actual game situations vs practice would even be close.
In my opinion, practice is part of it. Putting it together during the games is a much higher level of learning.
I believe Skiles is a “win now” coach. That could be good or bad, depending on the team’s situation.
Counter point – However, I believe the Bucks took it very easy with one of their best players years ago. I don’t remember if it was Moncrief or another one. It was during those days anyway.
My two cents…
"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...
by Power(less) Forward on May 12, 2011 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course...
… Iverson sees them differently too! [smile}
"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...
by Power(less) Forward on May 12, 2011 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
it was Moncrief
Not so with Marques johnson but Moncrief had brian Winters in front of him.
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
The problem was often a total lack of understanding
The number of times Skiles just slumped his head into his hands? The time Bogut called out the team because guys didn’t even know plays? Those are situations that shouldn’t happen nearly as often, if at all, and they’re the kinds of things that get remedied in practice. There’s no denying that practice can’t replicate the intensity or uncertainty of an actual game, but I don’t think the difference is extraordinarily big.
www.Brewhoop.com, http://where55happens.wordpress.com
by Dan Sinclair on May 12, 2011 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions
The other interesting thing is that the NBA has relatively little time for practice in comparison to college basketball and euro ball.
I understand that practice cannot be discarded when discussing playing time, but to me the issue of not getting the young players more looks in game-time situations has been a symptom of organizational confusion…‘rebuilding’ is a dreaded word for organizations, and usually something they avoid saying to their fanbase, but the proof is often in the usage and development of younger players in game situations.
Coaches like Skiles don’t deal with development, they grind to win every game they possibly can even at the expense of developing younger players. I feel like the Bucks have been drafting and acquiring players with a rebuilding plan (prior to this past offseason…sigh), but the coaching choice of Skiles has made them push for a win-now type team because that is how Skiles is going to manage his roster no matter what players he is given. Just a strange match, which is why I use the term ‘organizational confusion.’
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.
by Steve von Horn on May 12, 2011 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Biggest fear with Skiles...
is his rigidity/stubbornness. I was upset too that Sanders didn’t get more run in the late season, and struggled to imagine legitimate reasons beyond, “he didn’t give us the best chance to win,” which eventually became an actual advantageous situation.
I do think Skiles is a reasonably good coach, but he’s a coach that seems to need absolute control and is unable to adjust when that control is lost. I’m sure that at least part of the reason he’s known for burning players out. Still, he’s put together a pretty damn good defense here in Milwaukee, and I’m willing to give his system at least some of the credit left over after Bogut takes his share. That being said, if this time next year the Bucks aren’t in the playoffs (assuming the NBA exists, ugh), the calls for his departure are going to be LOUD.
www.Brewhoop.com, http://where55happens.wordpress.com
by Dan Sinclair on May 12, 2011 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll second the last line
Loudly
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
Here's my positive note for the day:
At least we aren’t Hawks fans. That must be terrible…
Same [stuff], different day. Josh Smith takes dumb jumpers, they can’t get past the second round, and they really aren’t ever going to take that next step…oh, and they have done everything possible to lock themselves into this highest level of NBA Hell…119 million guaranteed for Joe Johnson. Ewwwwwwwww.
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.
My negative
I’d rather have $119mil dedicated to Joe Johnson, than $100mil dedicated to Gooden, Salmons, and Maggette.
Agreed
Joe Johnson may be significantly overpaid, but he’s still a good player. Not many wings in the NBA I’d rather have on my team than him.
www.Brewhoop.com, http://where55happens.wordpress.com
by Dan Sinclair on May 13, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd rather spread that risk out among multiple players...
Especially considering I don’t feel Joe Johnson is that good, and he’s heading into his 30s as one of the highest paid players in the league for the next 5 years.
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.
by Steve von Horn on May 13, 2011 12:19 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Hey, now it's only around $72 million committed to Salmons/Gooden/Maggette!
And if the lockout lasts all season you can knock another $25 million off that :)
by Frank Madden on May 13, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I think I'd rather be a perennial play-off team with financial issues
Than a perennial lottery team with financial issues.
Crap.
by ZV on May 13, 2011 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
hey hey you cant put a price on what those three bring....
id rather just burn it
That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.
So you'd rather have an insanely expensive contract to a very selfish offensive player whose defense is very questionable
than three contracts for less money to three different players?
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on May 14, 2011 2:24 AM CDT up reply actions
How about having none of them?
Noting someone else’s debacles hardly mitigates our’s. It’s all dumb, in my book.
Just saw that Sen. Kohl announced his retirement from politics
Maybe now he can seek public funding for a new building (now that he’s not trying to keep the voters happy). All our problems are solved!
Traylor autopsy
The success that Nowitski and the Mavs are having in these playoffs keeps Tractor Traylor on my mind. Has anyone seen any follow-up report on Traylor’s death that mentions an autopsy?
by Southern Marxist on May 26, 2011 12:18 PM CDT reply actions

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