Brew Hoop Draft Board
by Dan Sinclair on May 23, 2011 3:25 PM CDT
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PrintWe're officially one month away from the 2011 NBA Draft, so now seems like a good time to get a bearing on which direction everybody wants the team to go with the 10th pick.
The poll below offers a number of choices -- pick the player you want the Bucks to pick. We're not looking for a mock draft here, we want to know who is topping the draft board for Bucks fans.
For now, we've tried to include players who have a realistic chance of falling to Milwaukee, so unfortunately the few elite prospects in this draft might be out of the question. If the player you want isn't listed among the choices, let's hear about it in the comments! Same goes for any deals you think the Bucks should make to move up or down in the draft.
We'll tally up the poll votes, plus any others included in the comments (no cheating!), when the poll closes at midnight on Friday.
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I voted in the poll, but ...
Alec Burks FTW!
This list makes me sad.
The guy I like the most on the list is the one I’ve never actually seen play…Burks.
I’d throw Hamilton on the list as well just based on team needs…and even though I’ve never seen him play it seems like Bismack is worth a look (no matter how old he actually is), even though there isn’t anything to scout him on.
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.
by Steve von Horn on May 23, 2011 3:45 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I vote to change the poll......it should be Neither Morris twin
That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.
I voted for "other"
“The German Ship” or Jordan Hamilton would be great.
"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...
by Power(less) Forward on May 23, 2011 3:59 PM CDT reply actions
this German Ship nickname almost swayed me.......
then again I voted “other”………….anyone not named John Salmons
That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.
The only problem...
… with drafting “The Bismark” is that Hammond would need to either clean house and get rid of one or more of the Power(less) Forwards the team already has, and/or let the guy play in Europe for some time. I rather have them go the way of the trade.
Defensively speaking, I think the guy is NBA-ready.
"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...
by Power(less) Forward on May 23, 2011 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, let's draft more "defenders"
We will keep losing games 86-78 ;)
John Hammond kills me
how can you get mad at a face like that
That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.
Kemba Walker if available
haha
I am too drunk to taste this chicken.
by ThroughBeingCool on May 23, 2011 4:12 PM CDT reply actions
Burks 1
2. Thompson(the American one)
3. Hamilton
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
Hamilton...
… would be my second choice at ten, as long as Biyombo is not available.
Hamilton seems to have the skills/game necessary to cover the second biggest need the Bucks have. I think he would be a very good NBA swingman.
"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...
by Power(less) Forward on May 23, 2011 4:33 PM CDT reply actions
All indications are that
he is able to hit a jumper so that’s good
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
ah but the trick is hitting a jumper with a Bucks uniform on
Bucks uniform seems to add a degree of difficulty rating of 10
That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.
Good one, guys!
It could be that Skiles gives them stress… Maybe some kind of syndrome with players wearing the Bucks uniform [smile].
I watched Jordan Hamilton yesterday (Chicago combine). He really made a positive impression on me.
"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...
by Power(less) Forward on May 23, 2011 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions
A sound theory
Say the Bucks do draft Burks, what happens to his jump shot? Will he hit any considering he is not a good jump shooter?
by Finkle_is_Einhorn on May 23, 2011 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Trade it ...
… which is exactly what that nonplussed “trying hard not to look shrewd” expression on Hammond’s face draft night was all about.
May not be able to make trades depending on the league status at the time
Either way I don’t know you get much value from the 10 slot in a pretty weak draft.
Grillax people
Weak?
For American players who can start right away and have an impact, it’s weak. There are no big stars in this draft, but it’s no weaker at 10 than in most years, thanks to the international players.
For the Bucks purposes, they can get a backup guard at 17-21 - why not trade this pick?
I agree 100%
I voted other for this reason and I want Marshon Brooks. He is longer than Burks, has a way better jump shot, and I think some of the defensive criticism is somewhat undeserved. He rebounded very well and blocked almost 2 shots per game. He is also a great competitor. He was visibly upset when they lost a close game against Notre Dame, though he scored 52. Also trades on Draft day shouldn’t be an issue considering the CBA ends after the draft. I could be wrong, though.
by Finkle_is_Einhorn on May 23, 2011 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions
With the Bucks second round pick? Sure, I like him there too.
Not if you’re thinking of Brooks in the first round though. Burks has far more upside, which is why he’s a projected lottery pick.
Grillax people
Consensus is that
Burks is the best SG, Thompson is 2nd and the rest aren’t really that close. I wouldn’t mind Brooks but like jmeks said at 40 not 10.
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
I didn't say draft Brooks 10th
I was agreeing with JD Mo that I would like to trade back, then draft Brooks. After the combine I don’t see Brooks making it to 40. I think a pick in the 20’s would be fine. I don’t see him getting past those 2 Bulls’ picks. I hate getting too hung up on upside. Does Burks ever develop a consistent jumper? I hate to come off pessimistic, but I am just trying to not always look at the ceiling of a player. Don’t get me wrong, I would be plenty happy with Burks at #10. I like many of the Europeans, especially Vesely, I don’t see where Leonard fits or other PF’s. I would be OK with taking Klay Thompson 10th if Burks is off the board, though I would prefer to move a few spots back first.
by Finkle_is_Einhorn on May 23, 2011 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Alec Burks fills a position of desperate need, and even though his jumper isn't great he's a better scorer then our other players
I like Kawhi Leonard, but he’ll probably be taken already, and I really don’t care for the Morris twins or Tristan Thompson. Jimmer might be a reach, and he’d have to play behind BJ, but could be a decent pick, and I just don’t want any European big man to be honest. Ersan is enough.
Grillax people
Other
1. Klay Thompson
2. Alec Burks
3. Biyombo
4. Leonard
FWIW - I've read that Philly and Indy both desperately want to add a PF and will look to move up in the draft to do it...
- would allow them to get a Morris twin or maybe a European….
Maybe trade Ersan straight up for pick #15 or 16?
Here’s a tidbit on Ersan from Yahoo’s Bucks team report:
F Ersan Ilyasova acknowledged at the end of the regular season that he was frustrated—just like many of his teammates. Ilyasova had an injury-plagued season, suffering through several injuries, including a concussion and neck injury that limited him to 60 games. The scuttlebutt is Ilyasova would like to be traded, and there was even a published report that he would try to get out of his contract and return to Europe. But Bucks general manager John Hammond made it abundantly clear Ilyasova is still under contract to the Bucks for another season, and Hammond fully expects Ilyasova to honor it.
Can see Indiana's need
But not sure why Philly feels they need a PF with Brand, Speights and brackins. Do you think either team would give up their pick for Ilyasova? maybe but idk.
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
Why would you trade Ersan and your pick at #10 for pick #15
Doesn’t make any sense. Unless you’re saying trade Ersan for their pick, and keep #10. Then it makes sense somewhat for the Bucks.
Grillax people
From HoopsDaily.com
05/23/2011 – 3:25pm
Per NBA rules, teams were allowed to interview 18 of the players who participated in the NBA predraft combine. The 76ers did their due diligence, speaking with 18 of the players they could be interested in when they pick at No. 16 during the NBA draft on June 23.
Unless there is a move before the draft, such as Andre Iguodala being dealt and a good big man being acquired in exchange, a source close to the team said they will not be looking at anyone “under 6-8. We need a big.”
I'd be cool w/ dealing Ersan for pick 15 or 16
Would certainly give the Bucks some options – and Ersan should be moved if they’re gonna re-up Luc, anyways.
I'd rather have the pick too
Just not sure whether the other team would make the trade though. I wonder what a source close to the team is? And I guess it could be, they have a lot at 2 and 3 for sure, might want something better at 5.
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
I read they will re-sign Hawes and they still have Brand [who I believe plays more C than PF]
So I can see them targeting a PF – but do they think Ersan is better than what they might get at #16??? Hmmm…
He may be better but not more useful
Ersan for 15 or 16 shud b done by the Bucks.
by FearTheDeer on May 23, 2011 7:08 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Depends on what you want from your PF
Farried is in that area and he is a superior rebounder. One of the Morris twins should be there. I think Ersan is better than those guys at the moment. If such a deal could be done, Bucks should say yes in a heartbeat! Assuming Luc is signed that is. A backup center at 40 would allow the Bucks to play Sanders and Brockman at the PF more.
by Finkle_is_Einhorn on May 23, 2011 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions
The Bucks are like David Khan for PFs?
Gooden, Ersan, Luc, Sanders, Brockman….and we want another one? We need to shed 3 PFs if we are going to acquire 1 more.
Trade Ersan and use 15 for one Jimmer, Darius Morris, Marshon Brooks, Jordan Hamilton, Tyler Honeycutt, or a Euro prospect.
We never drafted 2 PFs back to back in the top 10
I see what you are saying. I am liking the idea of Ersan straight up, more ore less, for the 15th or 16th pick. It would be nice if that trade could be done going into the draft. That would open the door for picking a high upside big man at 10 and picking Klay Thompson at 15/16. I think Darius Morris would be a fantastic backup PG if the Bucks were to acquire an extra 1st round pick and if they get Burks at 10. At 15/16 Morris would be a little bit of a reach, but it seems like his stock is rising.
by Finkle_is_Einhorn on May 23, 2011 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Too easy.
Hammond could probably get Speights or even Thad Young out of Philly for Ersan if he was willing to swap picks. But that’s still too easy.
Gooden for Nocioni, No. 10 for No. 15. Skiles loves Nocioni. Hammond won’t be able to make up his mind on No. 10 anyway – too many like-forwards on the board for him.
Bucks draft Hamilton or Marshon Brooks or Jimmer or Klay Thompson.
http://bobbooerjin.com
TBH
I’d rather have Gooden than Nocioni
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
Me too. Nocioni is too old, slow and well past his prime.
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
by Big Crazy Dave on May 24, 2011 1:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Keep Gooden ...
Lose Ilyasova. The PER guys jump for joy as Gooden’s usage rate somehow runs higher than Bogut’s (largely because Gooden doesn’t run the plays).
Bucks remain the same mess they were at the start of last season.
Wait...
So do you want to keep Gooden?
The Artist Formerly known as Speedingtime/Speedy
by Jacob Grinyer on May 23, 2011 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok so what's the proposal?
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
Ok I'm confused
What are you saying the bucks should do then.
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
Dump Gooden
and the pick on somebody with a contract like Nocioni’s laying around. Swap picks with Philly for the privelege of doing so.
Guarantee Ilyasova so that he’s under contract for next season. He and Sanders and Mbah a Moute have PF covered — and there’s no immediate help in this draft at that position.
Draft a shooting guard with the lower pick.
Sign experienced center in free agency.
Just my opinion but
Gooden for Nocioni doesn’t improve this team
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
Gooden's contract sucks, but he's not that bad of a player when he's healthy
I’m aboard keeping him at least for this season.
Grillax people
And Nocioni's contract isn't much better
And we already have a SF logjam
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
I don't really see what trading down would do for us.
The higher the pick, the more likely you’re going to get a player that can produce. I don’t think we have enough good young players to afford being able to give up the extra chance that we might get a better quality player. Who else do we have that has a chance to significantly improve in the future? Jennings and Sanders?
The Artist Formerly known as Speedingtime/Speedy
Depends on who you could get out of it
Or if you could get Houston to give you two picks but not to trade Gooden for Nocioni.
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
There's not much difference
10 to 20 in this draft … it’s all pretty middling but the shooting guards available 15 are just as good as Burks if not better. Klay thompson, Marshon Brooks.
Keeping Gooden
and letting Ilysava go to Turkey for no compensation doesn’t improve your team either or help the team that acquired him in the trade. He’ll probably sue, win play in Europe and get ready for the 2012 Olympics.
There’s no help in this draft to make up for the loss of Ilyasova. And you’d be stuck starting Gooden, a losing proposition.
Ilyasova is not a starting 4 in the NBA
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
Neither one is anything special
Let’s just leave it at that :P
The Artist Formerly known as Speedingtime/Speedy
by Jacob Grinyer on May 23, 2011 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed Canada
We have a lot of non-starters who are starting. If we can trade Ersan for another pick, and maybe draft Burks and Hamilton, I would do it in a heartbeat.
Ersan and Bogut
led the league in defensive plays per game for 4-5 duo and were 4th in defensive rebounding rate for the same. The Bucks were 4th in the league in defensive rating and a top 10 rebounding team.
He also shots 50 percent on midrange 16-23 foot jumpers last season, led the Bucks starters in win shares per 48 and was a top 20 rated defender before the concussion.
What more do you want?
Ok lets max him then
Sounds like the second coming of karl malone
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
I'd take Ersan's contract flexibility and more team oriented play then Gooden any day. (And if Ersan sucks, we can trade him easier, win win)
It’s just the matter of the garbage we’d have to take back by getting rid of Gooden, unfortunately.
The Artist Formerly known as Speedingtime/Speedy
by Jacob Grinyer on May 23, 2011 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions
They are both role players
And other than Bogut and maybe Jennings, that’s all we have. Yes every team needs role players but we need some bona fide starters.
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
And to re-iterate
I don’t really care if Gooden is on the team or not, I just would not trade him for Nocioni.
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
Yup.
That’s why I’d rather have Ersan. He and his contract would be more movable to make room for real starters. Plus, I think not having Gooden on the team and taking on a bigger role would do somethings for Ersan’s confidence and play. (I’m just basing this from reports like the one saying he might go back to Europe) At the best it would make him a better contributor to the Bucks now, at worst he would increase his trade value.
The Artist Formerly known as Speedingtime/Speedy
by Jacob Grinyer on May 23, 2011 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions
He is not a true 4 and can't guard 3's
Stats don’t tell the whole story in basketball. He may have shot 50% at mid-range but he didn’t take a lot of those, did he? Look, I like him as a player. But he’s not a starter and we gotta stop proppping up these guys as starters.
But you can't keep him
and expect to have any chemistry. Nor will he settle into a role or stay in shape. What do you do with the guy?
Nocioni’s contract is shorter and Skiles likes him.
He likes salmons too and.................................
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
Salmons
is a better defender than we’ve had at 2-guard since … Moncrief? Alvin Robertson?
He’ll bounce back. Had a bad year, injured most of it. Fish and BJ and Dooling were pretty bad last season. Temporary condition for the latter two.
Nocioni can play Skiles ball and stick a shot. He’d be a good utility small forward behind Delfino and Luc.
the former two.
Dooling’s just a bad backcourt player.
The Bucks should keep Gooden
If the only way to move him is to give up a really good player or pick, the decision is easily to keep him. All contracts aside, Gooden is still the best PF on this team. Ersan is just a better price tag for his mediocre production. Trade Ersan, trade Luc, trade Sanders, trade Brockman but face the music, we’re stuck with Gooden. Put that non-sense to rest.
Ersan is only mediocre ...
according to Hollinger’s system. The defensive stats and win shares say he’s much more than that, and that the Bucks would be foolish to let him go.
Keeping Gooden’s going to kill us over and over again in the coming years … let’s get this mistake corrected ASAP and move on.
If I’m not mistaken, it is this blog that has revealed how schizophrenic Gooden’s on/off PER is … Hammond needs to move it out the door as soon as he can, and if a pick swap in this draft gets it done, let’s do it. The No. 10 pick in this draft is no worse than the No. 20.
Ersan is only mediocre
He’s a FA in one year. He probably won’t re-sign with Milwaukee. Get something for him b4 its too late. I’m not even second guessing that Luc wants out of Milwaukee. I’m sure he’d love to play elsewhere than be stuck in career mediocrity for an city that doesn’t even support my team.
10 for 20 won’t shed Gooden’s contract tho. Gooden and 10 for some potato chips is likely to be turned down by other teams.
Other
You guys know I think we should take Motiejunas and until workouts reveal a bit more I’m not changing my answer.
Motiejunas ...
is a player. That’s not a pick the Bucks would regret.
On the Gooden v. Ilyasova question
I’ve looked at a lot of numbers, and the conclusion I’ve reached is that Ilyasova holds an edge in individual defense and perimeter shooting, but Gooden is a better rebounder (both offensive and defensive). Gooden’s production is also much better when he plays PF, according to 82games.com. At the 4, he has a 19.2 PER, compared to Ersan’s 14.0
The biggest reason that I wasn’t totally upset about the Gooden signing when it happened was that he legitimately filled a clear need: he provided size and rebounding, especially weakside rebounding on the offensive end when playing alongside Bogut. Gooden probably holds the edge over Ersan thanks to a combination of experience and bulk. Plus, his defensive lapses can be covered up in large part by Milwaukee’s good defensive system and playing alongside other good defenders. His contract isn’t great, but it’s also not atrocious, especially considering the Bucks’ reasonable cap situation and the unlikelihood of any big free-agent signings.
I don’t dislike Ilyasova as a player, but the truth is that he doesn’t have any stand-out skills, and while I expect him to finish out his current contract, I don’t see him getting extended beyond next year.
The two most important factors in Gooden being successful next year are: 1) stay healthy, and 2) find a true backup center to give meaningful minutes, allowing Gooden to stay at the 4.
www.Brewhoop.com
Midrange jumper
It’s easy offense from Ersan, something this Bucks team obviously lacks. I’m sure what Ilyasova is working on is the 3-pointer, and I’m not sure how I feel about that, especially if the mid-ranger is going in 50 percent of the time and not creating run-out rebounds. He is going to keep getting better and will probably be a 20-point scorer in the league once he reaches his prime, to say nothing of the defensive focus and intensity that he’s found under Skiles.
Don’t you wish we could just roll out Gooden’s PER and have it translate to better play? Unfortunately it doesn’t work that way, and when a guy’s shooting less than 30 percent outside the paint while carrying the 24.5 % usage percentage that Gooden played with last season, you’ve got a problem. Jennings didn’t manage it well coming out of training camp and the lack of ball movement was glaring.
The rebounding Gooden brings is a solution in search of a problem, as the Bucks have been one of the better rebounding teams in the NBA over the past two years. They rebound well (with some Delfino exception) with or without Gooden. In terms of production, the Bucks scored and defended better when he wasn’t playing.
I don’t know what Hammond saw in those old Pistons-Cavs playoff series, in those couple of games that Gooden played well. Whatever it was, I hope we’re not stuck with it for much longer.
I'm not here to say Drew Gooden is the greatest thing on the Earth, but...
He’s pretty clearly a solid rotational player at PF/C with a proven NBA track record of (at the very worst) slightly above-average play. Furthermore, he’s signed to a mid-level exception deal, meaning his annual salary is literally calculated as the league average salary, so it’s hard to say his deal kills the team. Big men don’t come cheap in the NBA.
Again, I’m not saying he’s God’s gift to the Bucks, but it’s hard for me to hate the guy or say his contract kills the Bucks or call him a bad player…because I don’t think any of those things are true.
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.
by Steve von Horn on May 24, 2011 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Regarding the mid-range jumper
Ersan shot 48% on shots between 16-23 feet this year, which just doesn’t seem sustainable. There are very few players who can hit those shots with good efficiency on a regular basis, and many of them are also good three-point shooters, which Ersan is not (yet?). He’d shot under 40% from that distance, in total, entering this year, so a sudden jump by that much is a pretty big red flag that he’s likely to regress a bit. Not guaranteed, to be sure, but statistically likely. Beyond that, Ersan is below average in shooting percentage from every single zone on the floor among power forwards who played at least 20 games and averaged at least 15 minutes per game. I’m getting those numbers from Hoopdata.
The bigger issue is whether a jump-shooting power forward without three point range is a player you want to emphasize in a struggling offense. Floor spacing is great, and jump shooters provide that, but they have to provide it with efficiency (or at least the threat of efficiency) to be effective; otherwise you’re just burning though bad shot attempts in order to create fewer good ones. The true “stretch 4s” in the league right now who are really valuable are the guys who have a proven ability to hit those shots over a long period of time.
Gooden certainly isn’t much better from the perimeter, though. I think the real kicker to reviving Milwaukee’s offense is shifting those outside shots. Either give them to guys who can make them (tough to find last year, could/should be better this year) or don’t take them at all, instead working for better looks close to the basket (also tough to find last year, should be better this year). Milwaukee was 9th in terms of percentage of shots taken from the 16-23 ft range last year, despite being 20th in terms of shooting percentage from that same distance.
www.Brewhoop.com
by Dan Sinclair on May 25, 2011 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Unfortunately, the Bucks were also dead last in FG% for shots at the rim...and by a hideously large margin :(
http://hoopdata.com/teamshotlocs.aspx
As for Ersan, I’d also been wondering about why he shot so well from that range this season. Here is the best logic I could come up with that he will continue to be well above-average (positionally) from that range: (1) Ersan is generally regarded as a talented shooter (I think we all see this) and is a career Euro player with a lifetime of experience shooting from Euro-defined long/3-pt range, which just happens to be the 16-23 foot area in NBA ball. His experience and comfort shooting from this range is apparent, and he just seems to be more consistent and accurate than he has been in his career when trying to stretch the shot to NBA 3-pt range. (2) The Bucks have tried to get that efficiency out of Ersan in past seasons by letting him shoot threes, but halfway through this season Skiles seemed to acknowledge that Ersan was much more comfortable from inside the arc…the 16-23ft range…and Ersan started shooting less threes and more long twos. Surely the least efficient shot on the court in theory, but Ersan has a lifetime of experience from that range, and ongoing international experience shooting from that range, so they seem to finally realize he can’t push it the extra few feet without sacrificing accuracy.
Those are my best attempts to justify the long twos from Ersan. I am usually with you on not depending on long twos Dan, and your logic is certainly something I subscribe to under most circumstances, but I am willing to let my Ersan Euro-ball theory ride out a little bit longer to keep me sane and positive about something Bucks related :)
I seriously need to find a few things, right?
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.
by Steve von Horn on May 25, 2011 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions
The Dunking Ninja
It would be really awesome if Jan Vesely fell to us at 10. He’s 6’11, can start for us at small forward, and would instantly upgrade our athleticism. Imagine trotting out Bogut, Gooden, and Vesely in the frontcourt, all over 6’10. Too bad i have him going at 6 to the Wizards in my mock draft.
I’m actually quite pissed we don’t have the 9th pick considering how close Charlotte and us were in terms of wins and loses. I think picks 1-9 will be impact prospects but thats where the talent level drops off, just like last year with Patrick Patterson at 14 (lucky Bucks 2 years in a row).
For the record i have the Bucks taking Burks at 10. I don’t really think this is a great spot to pick him because we really need help at backup point and center. If it were up to me i would probably take Montiejunas if the draft pans out like i think it will. I’ll post my mock and would be glad to discuss it with anyone else who’s interested and has been following all the prospects.
Vesely is my favorite player in this draft!
If 1-3 is Irving, Williams, Kanter (order doesn’t matter), then I see Vesely at #4 to the Cavs. I also don’t see the Wizards, Kings, and Bobcats passing on him. Some mock drafts have him going 10 or later and it makes no sense. Generally those mocks ignore that he could be a SF.
by Finkle_is_Einhorn on May 23, 2011 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Potential is huge, but...
…defense does matter, and it’s tough to believe that he’ll really be able to effectively check many NBA wings. As impressive as his physical talents may be, I think he ends up being another Larry Sanders, at least starting out. Higher ceiling, maybe, but do you want to accept risk/wait for that development?
www.Brewhoop.com
by Dan Sinclair on May 23, 2011 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions
He has been starting at the 3 in Europe..
…and goes up against stronger competition than college players, so I think he will probably be able to adjust to the NBA. I mean just look at Kevin Durant, he plays at the 3 and is a respectable defender. Jan Vesely is, in my opinion, just as athletic and maybe even more so with a similar body type! I think he could eventually be a great defender, like Andrei Kirilenko.
No offense, but comparing him to Larry Sanders is a joke. Yes they have similar body types, but that’s where the similarities end. Larry Sanders didn’t even begin playing basketball until he was in high school, whereas Vesely has probably been doing shooting and dribbling drills since kindergarden. Vesely has a solid perimeter game and has range out to the 3-point line, whereas whenever Larry Sanders took that 18 footer I cringed. Lastly, Larry Sanders just doesn’t seem that athletic to me. Yes he has nice size and a huge wingspan but he doesn’t really fly above the rim. Check out Vesely’s highlights and you’ll see why many people call him the best European prospect in this draft. He can absolutely soar and at 6’11 he could be one of the best leapers in the NBA next year and the bucks really need to get more athletic. I think you may need to give him another look. Who would you like realistically see the Bucks take?
Vesely still scares me
“Worst case scenario” on DX is Joe Alexander. It’s a long shot, sure, but it scares me because I can completely see it happening. Vesely is a top prospect for the same reason—elite athleticism, and while that’s an incredibly valuable ability, I think some of his drawbacks are overlooked. He’s a 6’11" player who doesn’t rebound and doesn’t block shots (though some of that could be due to playing at the 3 with other bigs). He’s a decent shooter at best, only shot 33.3% from deep last year. Comparing him to Durant is fair as far as positional alignment goes, but Durant uses his phenomenal shooting ability to set up his attacking ability—Vesely just overpowers guys. Maybe he’ll be just as successful with that method, but it’s still a limit.
There are a lot of big guys in this draft that I wouldn’t be upset with drafting, but I think I split with many people because I still have confidence in Sanders’ ability to improve. He’s not the same player as Vesely, to be sure, but I think he could be somewhere close, and I’d rather get that sort of play out of the frontcourt and be able to space the floor a little more on the wings, or play a strong individual defender.
I wish Leonard hadn’t shot up the boards so much, because he was my first choice, but I don’t see him falling. I’d be fine with Burks, and I’d be happy with Valanciunas or Motiejunas as backup centers who could potentially slide over. Even Jimmer is slowly growing on me!
www.Brewhoop.com
by Dan Sinclair on May 24, 2011 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions
He scares me too
We don’t need another 6’11 guy who doesn;t play like one. I know that has been the trend over the past decade or so. But still – we need someone with discernable skills who can defend at their slotted positions.
BIYOMBO
I don’t understand why you guys don’t have Biyombo as an option on this poll. Are you assuming there is no way he will drop to the Bucks? Sacremento, Detroit, and Charlotte are all likely interested, but I can think of plausible scenarios where each of those teams prefers a more versatile prospect. Detroit just took Monroe at PF and needs to get younger at the wing. Sacremento needs a point guard. Both (Detroit and Sacremento) are in a nasty ownership flux and that typically influences management to take “ready now” players over projects. As for Charlotte, Jordan has a long history of taking guys that produced in college (ever since the Kwame mistake).
Its also lazy to put “any europeon player that drops” as an option. If this is a draft board, list each guy individually.
I love this site, absolutely love it. But this poll is untypically (for this site) vague and unspecified.
This was just to get a bearing on people were looking
Wasn’t meant to be a final word. We just wanted to know where we should aim more pre-draft coverage. I made the poll, so I’ll take responsibility, but all I was looking for was a way of consolidating what everybody was thinking.
www.Brewhoop.com
by Dan Sinclair on May 24, 2011 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Good for you!!!
You also remind me of another guy that goes by HWII. Positively speaking.
That Jennings trade talk is really heating up. That would change so many things…
"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...
by Power(less) Forward on May 24, 2011 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I was talking to REO Sheedwagon.
"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...
by Power(less) Forward on May 24, 2011 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I was surprised DX even had him available at #10 in their latest mock
To be honest I would have excluded him from this poll simply because I don’t think he’s going to be available. If he’s legitimately 18 then he’d be terrific value at 10, and if he’s 20 then it’s still a very solid pick IMO.
by Frank Madden on May 24, 2011 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
So count my official vote for Biyombo. That guy is something special. I know we just drafted Sanders, but does anyone who actually suffered through watching the games this year think he did enough to be considered the power forward of the future? I think he showed potential as a shotblocker, but that he lacks touch and instincts (the two things you can’t teach a big man). Biyombo can and will be an elite defender, rebounder, shot blocker, and finisher. A frontline of Bogut, Biyombo, and Mboute would be terrifying to opponents.
If Biyombo is gone, I would want Burks second, and Leonhard third. I don’t like Vessley, he is kind of like an Andrae Blatche type: 6’11, no position, no real handle or scoring instincts, just tall and athletic.
I'm not sold on the guy ....
But if he is the best player left, I would take him. I like Burks and Hamilton, but let’s be honest, how much is Skiles going to play them with Salmons and Delfino locked in there? I go back and forth on this. Yes, our need is athleticism, especially at the 2 and 3.
I predict Skiles will be gone anyway after next season.
...unless we somehow make the post-season....if there is a season at all...
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
by Big Crazy Dave on May 26, 2011 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions
I am inclined to agree with you ....
I have done some research and viewed some tape on Biyombo this morning, and I would not mind us drafting him. I agree about Sanders; he is not a true, tough 4 and never will be. I see him developing his outiside game more than his inside game.
I would, however, prefer a frontline of Bogut, Biyombo, and a scoring 3. We will see how that shakes out.
I am admittedly conflicted ....as my posts convey
I go from getting young and athletic at the 2 or 3 to just picking the best guy – no matter what the position. I also think about who could help us right away. Most of our rotation, unfortunately, is set, unless there are trades. If we pick Biyombo, what happens to Sanders? Would drafting Biyombo be another admittal by Hammond that he blew it last year? I get scared when we use the draft as a redo from the previous year’s draft. The Bucks have done that several times over the years.
By my current tally:
The guys not mentioned in the poll that have been brought up are: Biyombo, Motiejunas, Vesely, Kemba Walker, Klay Thompson, Vesely, and options for trading the pick. Sounds like people are interested in Jordan Hamilton and Marshon Brooks too, but not necessarily at 10th overall.
Should we make a new poll and include each guy individually? Would people be interested in seeing that breakdown?
www.Brewhoop.com
Yes please
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
I second the motion!
All in favor…
"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...
by Power(less) Forward on May 24, 2011 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Eye! Aye! I! Ai!
Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!
by Big Crazy Dave on May 26, 2011 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it is safe to assume that: Irving, D Williams, Kantner, Knight, Walker, and Valinciuanus will be gone when the Bucks pick at #10. This leaves plausible options of: Burks, Tristan Thomas, Jan Vessley, Bismark Biyombo, Kawai Leonhard, Jordan Hamilton, and the Jimmer. I suppose Donatas Montiejunas is a possibility, as is Marcus Morris.
by REO Sheedwagon on May 24, 2011 10:13 AM CDT reply actions
I think we’d be happy taking Marcus Morris, Alec Burks, Motiejunas, Kemba Walker and Faried. In our position, I don’t see a lot of other players that would be worth the chance on our team. Faried I think will be a solid man from day one, much as Taj Gibson with the Bulls he’ll be able to step in and do his thing.
It’s crazy that the Bucks are posturing that they might take Walker. If Hammond is at all good at this he’s shopping the pick to go back in the draft. If some team is willing to offer a package to move up, I say go for it.
Got that right
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
"Other"
I believe they should package the 10th pick with a player (Maggette?) and trade down in the draft. Then, take “best player available”. This will allow the team additional flexibilty moveing forward to next season IMO.
by Keith Plus Sommer Pari on May 24, 2011 2:22 PM CDT reply actions
Only problem with that is
You have to take back equal salary more or less so you would have to take back something in the 10M/year range, which means you gain no flexibility.
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
Question
do draft picks hold a doller value in a trade.
Think not
"You play anybody and if they shoot 70 per cent from three, they're going to be tough to beat." More wise words from Chris Bosh
Unsigned draft picks always have zero dollars of trade value
Typically pick-for-player deals have to be conducted under the cap or use trade exceptions.
www.Brewhoop.com
by Dan Sinclair on May 24, 2011 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Lotery ? there slotted.
Magetty and gooden both do not fit a skiles game plan. Gooden is allways out of place on def and off -feet of stone, allways drops to rebound other than helping push the off player out 1-2ft before droping after help. and cory needs a faster flowing game to be effective. Point is with delfino faster and with out slower, same as missing BJ. IF healthy most of the 2010 plan could work only with a player like redd 1yr at mid ave pluss insentives. Truth is this is the worst draft Frome 4 to 20 in the last few years like YI`s year.
Giving up Bogut would be, well, giving up
Giving up Jennings, I believe, doesn’t necessarily mean giving up. I agree that Bogut is so important to the Bucks. I just worry about his injury-proneness.
As for Jennings, does he necessarily have to aspire to be as good as those guys Frank mentioned? I’m not sure. I do think that, if he is always going to be a shoot-first PG, that’s not good. I still claim, however, that we might not ever know that until we get good, consistent wings around him. I seriously believe that he feels he has to shoot. I could be wrong.
skiles= poor offensive shooting teams
for whatever reason any team skiles coaches has always been offensively challenged not sure if its too much worrying about the defense or what but the track record is there. Not really enthused about anyone at 10 maybe a trade back and pickup an extra pick late in the first round is the way to go since there isn’t huge difference after the first few guys in this draft? All i know is that Faried is gonna get rebounds so i say trade back get him and a guard
ersan
definitely not the right time to trade bogut at least until he proves his arm is at least 75% and then why would you want to trade hime hes the best shot blocker/charge taker in the NBA, offensivelt he will never be great but being that big will always get his share of garbage baskets when healthy. Jennings has alot of developing to do yet and for the right deal may be wise to deal, until he figures out how to shoot better than 40% he will never be much good to an NBA team. Ersan plays very hard but has fallen in love with the 3 pointer too much, not good when you shoot his%, so he is definitelt dealable, but at this point sadly that being said he is the best 4 they got. I guess Redd is gone so salmons will be the primary player there, hopefully he can get back to the way he played the year before. Unfortunately not a great deal of talent on this team just a bunch of so-so guys, Boguts injury really set the franchise back it was a real shame, wow is it just me or is this franchise kinda snake bitten, well mostly poor moves from management and yes im including Hammonds on this as well. So far his moves have been less than spectacular with passing on Brook Lopez and drafting Joe whatever even jennings is looking less of a steal now unless he can make big improvements over the summer i will admit its hard getting game changers at number 10 and 8 so we shall see what he does this year in what experts say isn’t a strong draft.
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