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NBA Draft 2011: Big trade, Tobias Harris and Jon Leuer highlight Milwaukee Bucks' busy draft day

We're still trying to digest what was one of the more adventurous draft days in recent memory, but for now here's what I think we can conclude.

John Hammond isn't afraid to admit a mistake. Hammond and company deserve credit for doing what many considered impossible--dealing both John Salmons and Corey Maggette while getting back productive players who are actually owed over $8 million less in aggregate. Of course, the Bucks had to pay for it, dropping back nine spots in the first round, and you can guess there will be lots of fan angst about the Bucks' decision to pass on better known scorers such as Jordan Hamilton and Marshon Brooks for the younger, less explosive Tobias Harris. The easier path would have been sticking it out with Salmons while trying to separately move Maggette, but the Bucks took advantage of some curious decision-making by the Kings to pawn Salmons off as well.

We've seen this before. Hammond's first big move was acquiring Richard Jefferson before the 2008 draft, only to dump him for expiring contracts almost exactly one year later. At the time the Bucks were perilously close to the luxury tax, but it was that move which surprisingly set the stage for the 46-win season that followed. Then in 2010 he acquired Maggette for spare parts and re-signed Salmons to four guaranteed years, only to send both packing today--again, one year later. Hammond also made Joe Alexander the highest-drafted player ever to not have his third year option picked up, but making Alexander an expiring deal also helped facilitate the Salmons trade at the 2010 deadline. Too often GMs are afraid to admit their mistakes, opting to hold out in the futile hope a bad move redeems itself. Sometimes it does, but usually it doesn't. So while Hammond has obviously made his share of mistakes, his willingness to swallow his pride and make it right should be applauded (even if it's just a golf clap). 

Star-divide

The Tobias Harris/Jon Leuer picks are a sharp contrast to last year's moves. As the youngest player in the draft, Harris is easy to paint as a project who's unlikely to make an impact for a few years. It's very possible--not many 19-year-olds are capable of being rotation players in the NBA. But Harris is a high IQ guy with a good feel for the game, not a raw talent who only looks good getting off the bus. In that sense both picks this year are stark contrasts to Tiny Gallon (immature on and off the court) and to a lesser extent Larry Sanders (immature on the court). It's almost as though the Bucks learned their lesson and decided it was better to just draft more polished, intelligent players from the start, rather than try to mold rawer guys with bad habits into something useful.

That also extends to the Bucks' trade. The Bucks strayed from their comfort zone in adding guys like Maggette and Chris Douglas-Roberts, talented offensive players who didn't really fit the mold of the prior year's team. It was hoped that the contrast brought by Maggette and CD-R would balance out what was an uncreative Bucks' offense, but in the end it only seemed to muddle the fragile chemistry that was so crucial to the 09/10 team. It's not that Maggette or CD-R were bad guys, but they just didn't fit.      

Winners and losers?  Be patient. Like any deal involving draft picks, we really won't be able to judge this trade fully until we get a better sense of Harris as an NBA player, which will likely require patience. If Alec Burks, Klay Thompson, Marshon Brooks or Jordan Hamilton become stars, we'll likely look back at this night with serious regret. Odds are none of them become superstars, but there's a reason Thompson and Burks went ahead of Harris, and the Bucks knew the risks when they made the trade. Now they'll have to live with them.

Udrih could be the new Ridnour. Udrih has killed in the Bucks in recent years, averaging 21 ppg over the past two seasons, but the truth is that he's been a surprisingly good player overall, notching a PER between 15 and 16 while racking up TS% figures in the 56-58%. He might not be worth $7 million per season, but he's a consistent guy from mid-range (43-44% four years in a row) and has been a slightly above average three point shooter the past two seasons, though perhaps most surprising is his finishing around the rim. No one will ever accuse the Slovenian of being a great athlete, but he led all point guards in finishing at the rim with a startling 73.6 % (min 40 games, 20+ mpg) in 10/11 after finishing behind only Steve Nash in 09/10 with 71.3%. Hopefully he can teach Jennings a thing or two.

The Bucks' cap situation is in solid shape. It's true that the Bucks wouldn't have had to sacrifice nine spots in the draft to deal Maggette and Salmons if not for the decisions made last summer. Acquiring Maggette and re-signing Salmons long-term were gambles that didn't pay off, but in the end the Bucks didn't pay the hefty price many might have expected. And while they weren't in real trouble before, they're in even better shape now. Starting with the numbers at Sham Sports, here's what the Bucks' current cap looks like if you include Luc Mbah a Moute's qualifying offer (which is the bare minimum to bring him back), Tobias Harris' salary (max 120% of his rookie scale), and Leuer's presumptive minimum deal (possibly more given the Bucks' penchant for getting their second rounders to sign for more up front in return for a third year). 

While no one knows for sure what the new CBA will look like, the Bucks could likely fill out a 15 man roster while staying right around the current soft cap level of $58 million. If the cap stayed at the same level--not likely, but let's go with it for now--they would project to have a decent amount of cap space in the summer of 2012, and by 2013 they have just $28 million in committed salary. 

The Bucks have too many point guards. Scott Skiles has always shown an affinity for pairing up ballhandlers in the backcourt, but my guess is that even he won't find a use for four point guards. At this point we'd have to assume that Brandon Jennings and Beno Udrih will be one-two on the depth chart, but beyond that it's less clear. Udrih will certainly play alongside Jennings at times, and Shaun Livingston's size at 6'7" also creates opportunities for Skiles to go with multiple point guards--in fact, including Dooling the Bucks now have three PGs 6'3" or taller on the roster. But I'd guess either Dooling or Livingston will be shipped out, in all likelihood for a backup big man or a wing shooter.   

The Bucks still need a big and could use another wing, too. Relatively speaking I think the Bucks' shooting needs have been a bit overblown--they weren't good from deep (18th in threes made per game and 24th in 3FG%), but they were much better at shooting threes than making layups, where they were once again dead last by a wide margin. That's a big reason why I was hoping the Bucks would go for a scorer over a pure shooter in the draft, but it turns out the Bucks really didn't get either. Jackson by himself made more threes per game (1.8) than Maggette (0.4) and Salmons (1.1) combined last year, but the latter were both more accurate than Jackson, who made a below-average 34% and has shot the same over his career.   

Up front, the Bucks remain rather small behind Andrew Bogut, though they were never likely to snap up a quality defensive big man where they were picking in the draft. Larry Sanders showed he could play the five against guys who weren't real offensive threats, but he's still a bit light in the shorts to hold his own with the NBA's best big men. Drew Gooden is stronger and has played plenty of center in his career, but his defensive numbers there have generally been abysmal, and so long as he starts with Bogut we're unlikely to see him play much five. And then there's Jon Brockman, who draws charges like a champ but is simply too short to legitimately defend centers for more than short stretches. I don't think anyone is expecting the Bucks to add a big name to back up Bogut, but they need someone who's big and can guard the post, whether it's via free agency or by trading Ersan Ilyasova/one of their PGs. Plenty of warm bodies could fit the bill: Kwame Brown, Nazr Mohammed, Kyrylo Fesenko and even our old friend Kurt Thomas will be on the market.

Darington Hobson may be the odd man out. There have long been hints that last year's 37th overall pick could return to the Bucks this year following surgeries on both hips, but the drafting of Harris would seem to make that less likely. Harris may be the most similar player to Hobson in this year's draft, as both guys were versatile college hybrid forwards who relied more on savvy than athleticism or pure shooting ability. Assuming Mbah a Moute returns, the Bucks would already be at 14 roster spots, leaving just one spot to add a shooter or a legit center to back up Bogut. Unfortunately Hobson doesn't fill either need.

The casual fan doesn't seem to know much about Harris, but all the draft experts seem to love him. I know very little about Harris' game other than what I've read and seen in clips, but it's rather encouraging to hear almost universal praise of the pick from Chad Ford (#14 on his top 100), Jonathan Givony (#8), and John Hollinger (#8). I always root for the Bucks to go for the home run, so I can't say I was particularly excited with the pick when it happened, though in truth no one at #19 really seemed worth being excited about--especially when you consider the historical production of players outside the top 10-15. Every year it's easy to get excited about guys in June when they've never played an NBA game, but reality has a funny way of setting in once the games begin to count. We spend six weeks getting charged about guys who were good in college, ignoring that few of them will ever be more than solid rotation guys in the NBA, and when we don't get what we want we're ready to put a brick through our flat screen. I totally get it, but keeping things in perspective is important as well. No one the Bucks picked--whether at 10 or 19--was likely to be an instant impact player or starter next season, and I'm not sure Harris is any less suited to being a productive pro than the flashier picks many of us had our hearts set on.  

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cleaning up messes ain't my favorite team activity, but...

…they did so while adding competitive spirit and BBIQ. Both were lacking last year. Guess I’m cautiously satisfied. Expect the coming season’s roster (whenever that is) to be more interesting. Am starting to hope it will have better teamwork.

by unklchuk on Jun 24, 2011 12:48 AM CDT reply actions  

One more thing to commend management on

They didn’t fall into the local-media trap of addressing an anemic offense by “adding shooters.” They made aggressive moves to revamp and offense that was too inflexible and limited. They could have made other moves (likely less financially advantageous), sat still at #10, and grabbed Klay Thompson, but they acknowledged that such a move wouldn’t fix the fundamental problem.

Maybe such a move was never really in the plans, and all the Klay love at #10 was just putting other teams on, but I’m really glad they looked past the obvious (and wrong) approach.

Of course, we probably need another shooter now…

by Dan Sinclair on Jun 24, 2011 12:49 AM CDT reply actions  

Just seems like this franchise is constantly running in place ....

Small-market reality? Probably to some extent. For fans, it’s about wins and losses and entertainment. Assuming a new CBA is reached, the Bucks marketing stiffs will have to pull a few rabbits out of their hat.

by tommyr on Jun 24, 2011 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

So whats the starting 5 now

Jennings
Jackson
Bogut
Sanders?
and who at SG?

its 2:15 and for all i know im missing some amazing player on the team and just cant think due to tiredness but who is playing SG now

by Collin B on Jun 24, 2011 1:13 AM CDT reply actions  

Delfino or Luc?

Luc gets a decent contract he’s going to start I think.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jun 24, 2011 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

I smelt the same thing last year too though ;)

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Kings fan here

Just wanted to say that Udrih is a great player don’t count him out as a potential starter. (it won’t happen but be ok with it if it does.) He will score for you an help create offense. his stop and pop from inside the arc is as close to automatic as they come.

As for us getting Salmons back….. well…. yeah….. my cohorts at STR will be more then happy to share there feelings on it.

Is cowboyron a chiropractor?- Wallywagon11
its questions like these that make STR oh so lovely.

by fffindeed on Jun 24, 2011 1:24 AM CDT reply actions  

really like the Udrich pick up, a pg who can play off the ball and score efficiently.....yes please

we dont need a starter but we need a guy with his skills , and plus he always torches us so yeah Im happy we got him

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 1:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Any words of

advice for how fast we should try and convince someone else to take Salmons off our hands?

Is cowboyron a chiropractor?- Wallywagon11
its questions like these that make STR oh so lovely.

by fffindeed on Jun 24, 2011 1:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

ask really really nicely ;) still if we can move Maggette too there are still GM's to be suckered

whats the take on the Jimmer pick?

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 2:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sactown

needs jimmer. plain and simple. he is going to put butts in seats he should develop into what Beno was for us (maybe better.) overall reaction is positive

Is cowboyron a chiropractor?- Wallywagon11
its questions like these that make STR oh so lovely.

by fffindeed on Jun 24, 2011 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

we relied too much on Salmons

and he struggled under the weight. He tried to be our go-to scorer, but his one-on-one skills aren’t quite good enough for prime time. At the end of games, we saw more turnovers than baskets. And our young point guard wasn’t much help.

Put him in a secondary role, and/or with a playmaking PG, and I think he’ll be productive. He’ll also work at all aspects of the game, including assists and defense.

So if you want to get rid of him, find a team that can do that. I’d like to see him play for a contender.

by unklchuk on Jun 24, 2011 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Beno will get torched on defense

He tries hard, but yeah – he’s just not a good defender.

Beno finishes well at the rim because he understands how to use his body among the tall trees. Pretty amazing to see a guy like that drop layups as regularly as he does without great leaping ability. He has a great mid-range jumpshot as well. And he has the ability to carry the offense at times if other guys are cold.

All in all, Beno’s a very good backup point guard, as long as you can scheme around his defensive shortcomings.

"Grant is a genius." - section214 - 5/17/11

by otis29 on Jun 24, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

These are all things Milwaukee can do.

EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Jun 24, 2011 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Where the hell

have you been Pookey?

Is cowboyron a chiropractor?- Wallywagon11
its questions like these that make STR oh so lovely.

by fffindeed on Jun 24, 2011 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

not knocking Tobias Harris....kid may be good eventually

but thats a cop out pick for me, just allows Skiles to do what he wants with the roster there is no pressure to play a kid like Harris

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 1:31 AM CDT reply actions  

but heyo credit Hammond for ridding themselves of Maggette and Salmons huge huge win

and getting back SJax a proven scoerer and leader when his head is in the game and Udrich is fairly decent

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 1:32 AM CDT reply actions  

is this latin for sit your butt down on the bench son, no way this kid gets burn under Skiles
"We’re thrilled to be able to pick Tobias Harris," John Hammond said after the draft. "He’s an amazing guy. And young guys like that, if they can ever find their way to the floor at that age the improvement they can make is so rapid. It’s not easy to improve if you’re not playing, and you know Scott (Skiles), he’ll have to earn that, but if he can do that, his upside is just tremendous."

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 2:12 AM CDT reply actions  

he's an amazing guy

well gee whizz we are not looking for a son in law

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 2:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

must say that was a roller coaster draft day....emotional

Tobias was such a shock because he hadnt really discussed him and we were really focussed on hoping Burks fell, then Leonard was around then we had worked out Brooks twice…..once it digests it lets see what the kid can do…..and yeah well the arrested development jokes are a plus

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 2:15 AM CDT reply actions  

someone Livingston that much in a deal? that was generous

good luck to kid with all his injuries great effort to come back, has great size havent seen him play since his Clipps days

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 2:17 AM CDT reply actions  

One thing I can tell about Harris from the clips

We’re going to see him fall down a lot. I like his intensity, but for a SF prospect, he sure can’t hit the three. He’ll bring it Skiles style, but until he develops his game we’re going to pull out our hair when he takes valuable minutes from …..

by MadTown Hoops on Jun 24, 2011 2:23 AM CDT reply actions  

yeah that seems a bit frustrating...But I guess Im forgetting we did have at pick #19

to think we could have taken Monti and ended up with the corpse of Brad Miller woe is me ;)

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 2:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

isnt stupid making a kid go up and wear a cap of another team when we know the pick has been traded? kinda an anti climax and awkward moment in what should be a geniunely happy time for them

unless of course your Brandon Knight, still it was so worth it with Jimmer

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 2:34 AM CDT reply actions  

Just finished watching the draft after recording it cos I was at work.

A bit of a rollercoaster to watch (especially when you can FF thru to each pick. Have to admit I was really hoping for Burks, but giving up Maggette and Salmons + #10 for Jax, Udrih, Livingston + #19 is still pretty sweet. What can you guys tell me about Leuer? I’m pretty sure there are a ton of Badger fans here! I thought he was a PF/C but it seems everyone seems to rate him a SF?

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 24, 2011 6:27 AM CDT reply actions  

Brad Lohaus 2.0 maybe?

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jun 24, 2011 6:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

duck for cover...could we have assembled a more piss poor bunch of mediocrity at the PF slot

Im not including Luc he is solid

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 6:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm still a 'semi' Gooden fan (given that he didn't get much chance to prove anything this season)...

…so I’m not prepared to write off our PF stocks whole heartedly yet. Though, it looks like Brockness or Ersan may now look to be a bit of trade bait, along with maybe Keyon.

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 24, 2011 6:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

im not so high to be honest, my hope is in Sanders but my faith isnt strong

they are all serviceable but thats been the story with Bogut and the PF slot always average serviceable guys, look at Gasol & Randolph did in the playoffs

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 6:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I know where you're coming from.

I guess we’re just a year apart in the optimism stakes mate :)

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 24, 2011 6:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

OK, I still remember Lohaus (didn't see him play a whole lot - twice from memory). Wouldn't mind a 2nd coming of Brad Lohaus with the 40th pick.

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 24, 2011 6:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

im all in on the kudos for Hammond deal but hey lets not forget he is the guy that signed them in the first place

so he had to do something, the actual draft was underwhelming hard to get excited Tobias apart from the fact that his name is Tobias

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 6:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Haha! Tobias Harris is probably the most 'normal' sounding name in the draft!

I agree that the draft was rather underwhelming and ‘non-eventish’, but I have to say that I am a little bit excited that Jax is coming to town (despite my ‘villain’ photoshop from a year ago!), and Udrih too!

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 24, 2011 6:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I like the Udrich deal for sure. SJax well its whether he buys into the Bucks

but I agree the upside with him and leadership potential is higher, haha might have to photoshop the photoshop

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 6:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think that photshpping the photoshop is now imperative!

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 24, 2011 6:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

haha laying the welcome mat....captain Jack isnt going to be shy hopefully he can light a fire under the guys

last season was underwhelming inspiring moments wise…..lets see how SJax remains before xLax kicks in and he wants to get out ;)

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 6:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think he's been around the league long enough to recognise that the Bucks offer probably his best chance of going a bit further in the post-season than what he's used to.

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 24, 2011 6:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

dude has a championship so he isnt fussed

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 6:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh yeah...forgot about that!

Tho, it was a while ago!

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 24, 2011 6:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just realised Jacob posted that pic on the main page.

What they say is true…once it’s in cyberspace it’s there forever!

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 24, 2011 7:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wonder if Houston is dumping a PF though?

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jun 24, 2011 6:46 AM CDT reply actions  

Who're you thinking of?

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 24, 2011 6:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

if we had drafted Monti we could have made a deal to get one of them away right?

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 6:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe

Patterson I would like, I think he can be a good rebounder with an inside game. I’m sure there’s going to be some deals before July 1st anyway.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jun 24, 2011 6:49 AM CDT reply actions  

I would love to have Patterson.

I was really willing him to fall to the Bucks @ #15 last year. With all of our PGs I’m sure we could swing a deal….haha!…‘all of our PGs’ – we sound like Minnesota! (Who’ve just shipped out Flynn in case you missed it with all the Bucks draft day excitement)

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 24, 2011 6:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

And shouldn't you be getting some shut-eye CB?

You must have your eyes out on stalks at the moment!

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 24, 2011 6:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Going to work in 10

It’s 8AM

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jun 24, 2011 6:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

OK, but have you had any sleep yet?

You seem to have been posting for about 12 hours :)

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 24, 2011 6:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ya I slept

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jun 24, 2011 6:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Good to hear :)

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 24, 2011 7:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

think we all like the idea of Patterson!

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 6:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm surprised we got a C+ from SBN

And the Wiz got an A. Vesely at 5 could be a major bust, Singleton is a nice player but not a coup at 18. We traded Salmons for Udrih(big win)Maggette for Jackson(push at worst)and 10 for 19 and Livingston(again I’d say push). Harris is reputed to be a good character kid who is a willing learner and is likely better than Hobson(and his hips work). I think we deserved a B

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jun 24, 2011 6:54 AM CDT reply actions  

Vesely and Singleton are more household names I guess, so easier to make that jump

Vesely must now be mentioned in the same sentence as his gf from now on

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 6:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hehe!

I can’t recall a Lottery pick pash anywhere close to that before! Do we know her name? She might knock Pippa Middleton off everyone’s lips for a while!

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 24, 2011 6:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

please please haha

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 7:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

was that just for the draft or did they mention the trade in the grade?

if its the draft fair enough we traded down 10 picks

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 6:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're right about the household name thing

I was thinking if Leonard dropped to the Bucks everyone would have been ecstatic. Truth of the matter is, if people don’t like Harris because he’s not a scorer, Leonard is probably even less of one so go figure. I think the pick was based on character and a guy that would be happy playing in MKE, Leonard may have been too one-dimensional and Brooks was just too diva I guess. We weren’t the only ones who passed on the last two.

Off to work.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jun 24, 2011 7:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Have fun!

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 24, 2011 7:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bucks Draft Grade

Chad Ford awarded the Bucks a B+, vs. the C+ from SBN. These are only opinions. Considering the Bucks choices, I think they did a very good job of changing the roster for the better. The current group seems to show better chemistry, assuming Jackson thinks he can lead a playoff run.

by mrfinsky327 on Jun 24, 2011 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Both

The third team in that trade of note leading up to the 2011 NBA Draft, the Milwaukee Bucks had different aims than the Charlotte Bobcats (add a pick) and Sacramento Kings (uhhh …). But were they successful in meeting it?

Gained: Tobias Harris, Jon Leuer, Beno Udrih, Stephen Jackson, Shaun Livingston.

Gave up: Rights to Jimmer Fredette, John Salmons, Corey Maggette.

Synopsis: The Bucks dropped about $8 million in salary obligations in the deal, created a stronger point guard rotation with Udrih and Livingston, added one of the better defenders in the league in Jackson and still picked up a so-called “lottery talent” in Harris at No. 19.

The issue, at least in the Bucks-Bobcats portion of the trade, is fit. Milwaukee already excels on defense. Hello Scott Skiles, hello Andrew Bogut. The Bucks need scoring punch … which is why the team traded for Maggette a year ago. Udrih will help there (trust me, his value isn’t on defense), but he won’t play anything like the minutes he became accustomed to in Sacramento. Harris is a year or two away from contributing much of anything.

Shedding salary is something the team simply had to do. But I’m not sure the team is much better for the trade and draft. Let’s shrug on in to 2011-12.

Grade: C.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jun 24, 2011 6:59 AM CDT reply actions  

fair i think we have to prove ourselves semi relevant again

im just happy we moved Maggette and Salmons not so much about the salary….nothing personal but they were not going be productive here for whatever the various reasons

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 7:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Everyone shrugged when we brought in Salmons, Thomas and Stackhouse in 09/10 too...

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 24, 2011 7:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

A couple points...

I agree that it is an admirable quality in Hammond that he will admit his mistakes even though it is pretty infuriating that he keeps making them.

Tobias Harris was a great value pick at #19 and one of the guys before the draft I would not have minded ending up with at all. DX compares his upside to Shane Battier with more offense. If he becomes that this pick will be an incredible one. Plus, the guy is 19 and younger players tend to have higher ceilings.

I was less than excited about the trade when it happened but now I am trying to see the bright side. We traded one cancer for one slightly more productive cancer with the same contract. Small win. We flipped Salmons who hurts us the first 50 games of every year for a really good backup PG. Small win. I would have preferred to take Klay Thompson #10 over Tobias Harris at #19 but in order to get something we had to give something and Harris is a consolation prize I’m very happy with.

Now if they can just get rid of Gooden.

by Superelkman on Jun 24, 2011 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Plus we got an asset in Livingston

Who I think is tradeable

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jun 24, 2011 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think you will get more in return for Livingston

Then Dooling, Dooling gets you a future 2nd if you’re lucky, Livingston might get you a young player from a team with a glut at one position.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jun 24, 2011 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

He hasn't missed a game in nearly 2 seasons

I remember him playing fairly well for the Wizards the season before last.

by FearTheDeer on Jun 24, 2011 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

A game is an exaggeration

but he’s been fairly healthy since he came back and its been nearly 2 years…thats my point

by FearTheDeer on Jun 24, 2011 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

dude has great size for a Bucks guard

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

SJax should love Skiles

he plays D and Skiles lets players do whatever they want on offense woohoo……this will be either very productive or they might kill each other

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 7:04 AM CDT reply actions  

It's gonna be interesting whatever the result...!

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 24, 2011 7:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

a train wreck is interesting in a morbid way too I guess I wouldnt wish it upon anyone though

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 7:37 AM CDT reply actions  

I think we will see some

Jennings, Udrih, SJax sets and maybe some more up tempo next year. Wonder if Harris belongs in D to start the year?

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jun 24, 2011 7:47 AM CDT reply actions  

could be a worthwhile exercise both ideas

I hope Skiles utilises Udrichs skill set I really do

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Dear Brew Hoopers: My apologies for my post-pick rants last night

My fondness for Marshon Brooks too over. I am, however, still concerned about this offense. I also recognize that it’s only June and Mr. Hammond might not be finished.

by tommyr on Jun 24, 2011 7:53 AM CDT reply actions  

I was definitely underwhelmed by the pick, perhaps something to do with hoping Burks would slide and complete the night

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Brooks will be a moderately efficient off the bench scorer at best...

People got too enamoured with his 7’1’’ wingspan and high volume of shooting. I think he’ll be a solid rotation player but I’m happy with Harris at that spot. He has higher upside IMO.

by Superelkman on Jun 24, 2011 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

There is zero proof of that given his offensive production in college

That isn’t to say that there is any proof that he will become super prolific. But come on.

by tommyr on Jun 24, 2011 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

there is a reason the guy wasn't a lottery pick...

he forces bad shots and is uncomfortable scoring without being the main ball handler… sure he could be a 20ppg scorer on an awful team if he takes enough shots but if you want him in a productive role it is most likely going to be as a good scorer w/ tunnel vision off the bench

by Superelkman on Jun 24, 2011 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think you're jumping the gun

But it’s typical of most professional sports – NFL and NBA especially – to have no imagination and to stick obsessively with a system and not tailor it to talent.

by tommyr on Jun 24, 2011 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

i'm not saying he can't magically develop court vision and passing ability...

i’m just sticking with history here and saying he most likely won’t…

if he turns into a good scorer off the bench that is a steal in the late 1st but im guessing he struggles to adjust the playing off the ball in the nba a lot

by Superelkman on Jun 24, 2011 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Superelkma, maybe it's me just wanting some prolific tendencies in an offense player on the Bucks

Their offense is torture to watch. I am utterly convinced that Scott Skiles pays little attention to it. I want him GONE.

by tommyr on Jun 24, 2011 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

i know what your saying... i do like brooks because he is a shot creator and if used right can be an effective player...

even though i like the harris pick it would have been nice to take a guy who could potentiall score 20 a night… the bucks offense is pretty bad to watch although two years ago when they actually moved the ball and played as a team it wasnt all bad…

by Superelkman on Jun 24, 2011 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

I am warming up to Harris

And I know things work when you move the ball around, but most of the NBA isn;t always about that. In crunch time, you need someone brave enough to say “this is mine dammit” …I’m taking it. Even though Jennings isn’t always successfull at that, I like his willingness to do so.

by tommyr on Jun 24, 2011 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Jackson won't be shy either

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jun 24, 2011 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

I just appreciate the intensity that Cap Jack will bring to the locker room. We turned 2 leaders on the court into 1 vocal leader who also leads on the court

by FearTheDeer on Jun 24, 2011 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think that between them, Bogut and Jax will be able to leave a footprint-sized bruise on each butt-cheek!

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 24, 2011 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

not really sold on Brooks either so Im just being stubborn, will come around to Harris not sure what Skiles will do

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Headlines in the Urinal/Sentinel sports section:

“Bucks trade for offense at draft”

Hmm ..did I miss something yesterday? …

by tommyr on Jun 24, 2011 8:08 AM CDT reply actions  

bit harsh Udrich and SJax bring offense to the table

can Skiles utilise them correctly is the huge issue

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

I am looking forward to S. Jackson's intensity

Good or bad, we need more of that on this emotionally dead team.

by tommyr on Jun 24, 2011 8:18 AM CDT reply actions  

Hammond bailed Skiles out on the Maggette issue thats on Skiles

now he needs to back up and look after Hammond by getting SJax Udrich and whomever else we get into the Bucks game plan

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 8:28 AM CDT reply actions  

Big/Huge trade!!!

The trade is not what I expected/wanted, but…

I feel John Hammond made a brilliant move with the Stephen Jackson trade.

I will need to do lots of research on Tobias Harris! However, I won’t form an opinion on him until I see him play.

Hammond did not get rid of Ersan. Hammond did not acquire Patrick Patterson… However, he got rid of (doghouse) Maggette, and (fat after the contract) Salmons.

Not only that, but he acquired one “Bucks killer” in Beno Udrich plus a bonafide NBA scorer in Stephen Jackson.

I have renewed respect for John Hammond.

"Players earn their minutes." Yeah, right...

by Power(less) Forward on Jun 24, 2011 8:54 AM CDT reply actions  

a bondafide score who makes his chops on the defensive end.....very important for us with Skiles

like Udrich move

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

From Chad Ford, who graded the Bucks a B+

“They took Tobias Harris, one of the most underrated players in the draft and a very good fit for their team. While he’s not an explosive athlete, he’s skilled with a high basketball IQ and good versatility. At age 18, he was one of the youngest players in the draft, giving him plenty of opportunity to improve.”

by tommyr on Jun 24, 2011 9:05 AM CDT reply actions  

exactly... In the middle of the draft it is more about hitting singles and the occasional double than home runs...

If you look at draft history far more players bust than boom in that range because all the ones who really have a shot of booming get taken much earlier…

If we just hit a couple singles and doubles with our middle of the round picks for a while we will have enough assets to actually trade for a star player…

by Superelkman on Jun 24, 2011 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

You might be right on the future options; I am warming up to the pick.

Although he wears the good at everything, master of nothing label, he seems to have good court sense.

by tommyr on Jun 24, 2011 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Harris

His motion is similar to Josh Smith, but he’s less athletic and apparently higher IQ. Smith was picked in that same range I believe.

by FearTheDeer on Jun 24, 2011 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Back-up C....we still don't have one...we need 2

but I wouldn’t object to the Bucks re-signing Gadzuric one of our back-up centers for a more reasonable contract. He’s one of the few guys in free agency who somewhat protects the rim…if he can find it. If we keep Leuer we have 14 players on the roster…Dooling needs to go away

by FearTheDeer on Jun 24, 2011 9:31 AM CDT reply actions  

And it's not over imo

Houston PF glut can we still get Patterson, be nice to have a guy with a bit of an inside game although I am hoping zzzz

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jun 24, 2011 9:32 AM CDT reply actions  

Not hoping to sleep sorry

harris eventually will bring a post-up game to the table

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jun 24, 2011 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

The difference being we have a ho-hum glut at PF, whereas the Rox have an oh-ok glut...

…you just need some perspective on your gluts :)

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 24, 2011 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I like big gluts and I cannot lie?

"Don't worry, I've got an idea. An idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about..."

by Steve von Horn on Jun 25, 2011 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

glutes or gluts I think we need that confirmed

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 26, 2011 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

This thread has taken a turn for the ridiculous

http://twitter.com/WhalesLarry ...but only if you want to see someone still trying to figure Twitter out.

by Mitchell Maurer on Jun 26, 2011 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's how I make my other comments and posts seem informative and insightful, Mitchell...

I set the bar low with bad humor.

"Don't worry, I've got an idea. An idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about..."

by Steve von Horn on Jun 26, 2011 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Mitchell, you seem surprised at the ridiculousness...

…I find it commonplace here (especially when BJs and I are involved! – and now Steve too it seems!)…;)

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 26, 2011 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

hey this post has a picture of Jimmer with a Bucks hat on I just went with it ;)

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 27, 2011 1:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Haha!

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 27, 2011 5:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

If anyone is interested in the long term prospects for the team,

combine the aforementioned salary cap chart with the fact that next year’s NBA draft is set to be LOADED with talent. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Hammond managed to unload both Salmons and Maggette while bringing in a player who, after this upcoming season, will have a massive expiring contract (Cap’n Jack).

So a $10 million contract that expires in ‘12-’13, plus trade bits like Ilyasova, Sanders, and even Brockman…could Hammond be putting the team in position to acquire multiple picks in next year’s big time draft?

Think about it…with names like Anthony Davis, Harrison Barnes, Jared Sullinger, Michael Gilchrist, Austin Rivers, and Perry Jones, there is some major star power to next year’s draft. And I have a feeling that Mr. Hammond has put the Bucks in position to acquire picks that just might get one (or more!) of these players.

http://twitter.com/WhalesLarry ...but only if you want to see someone still trying to figure Twitter out.

by Mitchell Maurer on Jun 24, 2011 9:35 AM CDT reply actions  

true,

but if everyone’s clamoring for “star power”, and this year’s draft had VERY little…

http://twitter.com/WhalesLarry ...but only if you want to see someone still trying to figure Twitter out.

by Mitchell Maurer on Jun 24, 2011 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

It was anemic in that regard.

by tommyr on Jun 24, 2011 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

no doubt he worked some magic to clear up the messy situation he did help create not totally so kudos on that

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

rotations

it isn’t so bad, like it more than last season, 14 guys on roster right now, need a real backup center as the 15th guy, be nice to find a younger shooting guard with some potential – still like it more than last season – don’t you guys?
jennings-udrih-livingston
jackson-dooling
delfino-momomute-harris
gooden-illysova-sanders-leuer
bogut-????-brockman

by oldresorter on Jun 24, 2011 10:46 AM CDT reply actions  

needed a proper back up for well since we signed Bogut.....you would think they could get something done

nothing doing

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

not to mention a serious PF

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Starters and variations

Let me see

Starters

Jennings
Jackson
Delfino
Gooden
Bogut

Almost starters
(with similar minutes)

Udrih
Luc

Backups

Livingston
Ilyasova

Reserves in case of injuries or sustained bad starter’s performances

Dooling, Brockman. Sanders and rookies.

I believe Udrih will play equal amount of minutes as 1 and 2, even more than Ridnour. And I wouldn’t count him out as a starter, if Jennings doesn’t improve what he did last season.

Jackson should come in for doing what Salmons was supposed to do last season, right? Unless he needs some resting, most of the times he’ll move to 3 when Beno comes in.

Maybe I’m wrong but if I there are no more trades, for Canada’s and Tommy’s dismay, Carlos seems to consolidated his role as a starter in the team. And one with big minutes as last season. Behind him I see Jackson and Luc when defensive upgrade is needed

And Luc seems to have now a similiar role than Udrih with guards. He’ll be the first replacement for forwards.

  

by palomba on Jun 24, 2011 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think Carlos is here until Harris is ready

And his contract runs one more year so that might be the end of the road for Delfino as a Buck. I am not dismayed really, I think his minutes will decrease this year and he get the minutes he deserved 20-25 per game. Think Livingston gets moved for a big and/or Ilyasova gets traded for more of a prototype 4.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jun 24, 2011 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not so worried about Del-Three-No

Simply because we have Jackson now, who can spell at the 3.

by tommyr on Jun 25, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

They both need backup

I don’t believe Maggette was moved to give Carlos more minutes.

by toasterrebound on Jun 26, 2011 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

how many more minutes can you find for a guy whose offense is so hot and cold

I value the team things Carlos does, but its either his 3 point shot is falling or his offensive output completely vanishes

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 26, 2011 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

That was sone of my Maggette frustration last year

Two overime games stand out in my memory, one agaist Orlando where BJ got us to OT on his own(Maggette was entrenched in Club Fido at that time) and another in TO where Delfino was horrible down the stretch and almost cost us the game, which Maggette hit the winning 3 iirc. I am glad Corey is gone but Delfino’s PT was a mystery at times last year.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jun 26, 2011 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey, y'all

Thought perhaps you’d like a Vol fan’s perspective on Tobias Harris.

The first thing you notice about him is just how smooth he is. It’s like he always knows exactly what he’s doing, with never a wasted motion. No flash, but gets the job done.

The next thing, which has obviously been well-documented, is his maturity. As a freshman, he was already the most grown-up player on the team, and in the embarrassing tournament loss to Michigan, he was the only starter who gave a damn. The man puts in the work, and he doesn’t give up.

Also well-documented is his versatility. Played a lot of point forward with Tennessee, did his fair share of posting up, did his fair share of stepping out behind the arc. He can hit the three, although his percentage needs to be improved. But he was always solid bringing the ball up the floor and distributing, and he did a lot of damage down low as well. On the glass, he wasn’t dominant, but he did his fair share.

One thing that I never quite figured out about Tobias was his first half/second half splits. These became even more pronounced late in the season, but I noticed them all year long. He would flat take over the first half and then disappear in the second. I think in our last meetings with Florida and Kentucky (both top ten teams), he put up 18+ in the first half and diddly in the second. I’m not sure what was going on here. I don’t think it was fatigue, because he seems pretty fit. It’s possible that after the first half, the other team game-planned to take Harris away and let somebody else beat them (nobody else did). My basketball IQ isn’t high enough to see exactly what was going on though. Still, those first half performances are cause for encouragement.

The biggest weakness of Tobias’ game in college was his 1 on 1 defending. He’s not going to be the quickest guy on the floor, and it’ll take some work to get him up to speed against the athletes at the 3 in the NBA.

It was obvious to all of us last year that Tobias Harris was an NBA player. How far he goes, that I can’t say. But he’s the kind of guy you want to succeed, and I’ll be pulling for him and for the Bucks.

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Go Bolts! Out West, go Preds! Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Jun 24, 2011 10:53 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

great to hear an indepth analysis...

I think the thing that threw alot of us, CB apart, on draft night was we hadnt really looked at or discussed this kid as a serious option, which probably shows how ignorant we are ;)

my main worry is just Skiles and his notorious hard arse rotations unless your name is Malik Allen or John Salmons, but feeling alot better and the draft experts have been complimentary of the pick

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks a lot!

It’s nice to get a perspective from somebody who’s watched him play a lot.

It seems unlikely that he’ll get a LOT of playing time next year, but I’m sure he’ll see the court at least a few times, especially if he shows he can help the team. And there’s still plenty to be said about practicing with the rest of the squad, which will help him improve.

by Dan Sinclair on Jun 24, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

how about the 14%?

As a Vol he had 14% body fat. Now he’s at 8%. Did they want him to have that extra weight to play “bigger”? Think that weight was a factor in his slow defense?

He seems very dedicated so it would seem strange if he wasn’t in the best of shape.

by unklchuk on Jun 24, 2011 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

it was never a story at Tennessee

and he never looked like he was carrying too much weight. What’s probably going on is that his weight was never a problem (so it didn’t get press), but it’s an area that he saw for improvement when he worked out for the NBA scouts. Also, keep in mind that he didn’t go through a full year of S&C at UT, so it may just have been a matter of lack of time. Still, if he’s playing lighter, I would imagine it would help his defense, because quickness was an issue at times.

But I think the bigger thing is just going to be getting used to what he has to do to defend at a high level. It’s easy to forget because he was so mature and so confident on offense, but he might’ve been the youngest guy on the team. Making the jump from guarding high school players to guarding college players takes some adjustment, and it didn’t quite click defensively like it did offensively. Mentally, it’s hard for a new player to focus on too much at once, and his focus was definitely on offense last year.

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Go Bolts! Out West, go Preds! Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Jun 24, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

ThaNKS, I_S

You build a plausible “case.” In draft-related interviews Harris has said he intends to focus on defense and expressed the expectation he will be good at it. He gives a good interview. And, I’m starting to think, will make a darn good Buck.

Some have compared Harris’ quickness to Paul Pierce – saying that he doesn’t grab the eye with flash but gets the job done efficiently with minimal fuss. Sound right?

by unklchuk on Jun 24, 2011 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

sounds right

I don’t know how to gauge his potential ceiling as far as quickness goes, but he’ll always be moving faster than he looks. Very smooth, very efficient.

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Go Bolts! Out West, go Preds! Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Jun 24, 2011 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bit like Tiny Gallon...

…cos it’s too depressing to think that Tiny was actually as slow as he looked….!

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Jun 24, 2011 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hoping he gets some D League time

Couple months to get used to the College/pro differences then come up.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jun 24, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the info, I_S

Although I did not watch the Vols a whole lot, I do know that their offense could be a little Jeckyl and Hyde. So maybe the disparate first-second half splits could be explained by that.

With regard to his defense, he might be the prototypical quick 3, but he seems nimble with his feet, getting to where he wants without looking pretty. I coached a kid in grade school was like this, and I taught him to anticipate an offensive player’s move and “beat him to the spot” …

by tommyr on Jun 25, 2011 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm very happy w/ all the moves

And I gotta think a few more moves are coming…

by victor s on Jun 24, 2011 12:16 PM CDT reply actions  

Still baffled by the Kings though

Drop down 3 spots for the right to trade Salmons for Udrih, and we criticize Hammond?

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jun 24, 2011 12:16 PM CDT reply actions  

There was that gambling debt that Steinmiller made go away...

And the anti-trust exemption that The Senator got through the committee.

And those two ladies finally surrendered all copies of the pix and videos – in exchange for two Harleys and a lifetime supply of Usinger brats.
 
 

by unklchuk on Jun 24, 2011 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Makes more sense than

The Kings thinking they bested the Bucks. I know they wanted size and likely didn’t want to pay Udrih to be a back-up but gawd couldn’t you have done better than that?

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jun 24, 2011 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

at the end of the day when you say we are taking John Salmons back that kinda kills any argument you have

unless we are taking Salmons back in a deal that includes Kevin Durant ;)

That," says LeBron, "is for everyone that watches me play. They witness something special. You're all a witness.

by ILIKEBJ'S on Jun 24, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

If the Kings can't play in LA

They’re sure not going to make Sacramento happy.

I never use a big word when a diminutive word would suffice.

by TheJay on Jun 25, 2011 1:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think Frank actually mentioned this on his twitter,

but to those thinking Leuer is more of a SF, think again. When’s the last time a 7 footer played the 3 position? He’s just far too big to be out there. If anything I think he can be a Bargnani type of center (not as efficient) or Charlie V type PF.

Also, I echo the sentiments of another deal coming. Said this last night, but too many guards and too many PF’s. No back up C, really no ‘true’ SF. Definitely have flexible guys that can play multiple positions, but that’s not really ideal for you starters. No true SG or SF on the team at present, though SJack and Delfino can play either. We shall see

Grillax people

by jmeks23 on Jun 24, 2011 1:58 PM CDT reply actions  

Technically Odom is a 7 foot SF, and perhaps the argument can be made Bargnani and Dirk are 7 foot SFs in terms of actual on court assignments, but I see the point

No sense in thinking Leuer is going to be a world beater or anything, but I could see him on the court with on court assignments related closer to a SF than a C, if you catch my drift

"Don't worry, I've got an idea. An idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about..."

by Steve von Horn on Jun 24, 2011 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Odom's skillset is also light years ahead of Leuers though.

But yes I understand what you mean. He will attempt to pull the defender to the perimeter on offense.

Grillax people

by jmeks23 on Jun 24, 2011 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can see a front line of

Bogut, leuer and Luc at times and think that can work in small doses

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jun 24, 2011 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

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