Brew Hoop Podcast # 10: Tobias Harris Scouting Report

by Steve von Horn on Sep 14, 2011 7:54 PM CDT in Podcasts

Are you becoming numb to PR-laced lockout stories and rec league highlights? [Nods head slowly] Do you yearn for some good old-fashioned NBA talk? [Makes sky point gesture] Are you curious to learn more about the talents of recent Bucks draft picks Tobias Harris and Jon Leuer? [Nods head vigorously and falls off swivel chair]. Well, if so, then I can confidently say that Brew Hoop has something special for you. We are proud to present the First Annual Todd Day Memorial Bucks Draft Pick Forecast (note: this will make more sense after you listen to the audio)!

In this episode, Frank Madden, Dan Sinclair, and Steve von Horn offer a long form scouting report on Milwaukee Bucks first-round draft pick Tobias Harris. In Podcast # 9, we covered the well-documented training habits and maturity of Harris--and how these traits may have affected his draft workout results and helped to determine his ultimate landing place with the Bucks, while also referencing the pro-style workouts he's been doing since high school. What are the most important issues we have identified for his transition to the NBA, and how do we see him contributing to the Bucks in the near future? All this and more beyond the jump...

Here are the issues we cover in our scouting report on Tobias Harris:

Despite being the youngest player in the draft, Harris' impressive maturity manifests itself in versatility and craftiness on the court. We flesh this out in greater detail and speculate on how he might be able to contribute to the Bucks in the upcoming year and the long-term as well.
What position will Harris play in the NBA? Is he a small forward, a power forward, or a hybrid tweener? We discuss how he was used at Tennessee and how his skills and physical attributes might be maximized at the pro level.
To which NBA players can we make reasonable comparisons and projections regarding Harris' future style and production?
How we feel about the pick of Tobias Harris at 19th overall. Was it a good gamble for a team like the Bucks to take a younger player such as Harris, or should they have pursued an older prospect that fit a need, like Marshon Brooks?
Are Bucks fans still allowed to hold on to dreams of Alec Burks (or Klay Thompson) and complain later about the foregone opportunity to draft him if he becomes an all-star? Alternatively, what if those photos of Jimmer wearing a Bucks hat on draft night come back to haunt Bucks fans...
Random references to Lee Mayberry and Todd Day? Absolutely.

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Poll

What role do you think Tobias Harris will have in his rookie season?

Regular rotation player. His maturity and the Bucks' lack of small forward depth will allow him to earn consistent minutes.

64 votes

Mostly a garbage time guy. Injuries may give him some chances here and there, but he'll generally be competing just to make the 12-man active roster.

56 votes

Complete non-factor. He's too young and Bucks have too many guys who will be ahead of him on the depth chart. His best chance to initially develop his skill will be in the D-League.

16 votes

136 votes | Poll has closed

Tweet Comment 28 comments | 0 recs |

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Comments

My vote is for solid second or third stringer

He’s still a rookie and the lockout will kill any hype. He doesn’t get to prove himself in Summer League or seemingly the preseason. In the beginning, Harris will have a tough time, but the coach will see his effort and I think it will work out. Hammond is big on character guys, which works because Skiles won’t play ballers he doesn’t respect. By the end of the season, he should be seeing solid minutes. I don’t see Skiles starting anyone other than Delfino, Mbah a Moute or Jackson before Christmas though. Jackson would have to be moved if Harris were to ever start over him. Jackson’s pride is bigger than his game, which can be formidable.

by MadTown Hoops on Sep 15, 2011 4:58 AM CDT reply actions

Random aside, would Harris' game work as a hybrid power forward?

by MadTown Hoops on Sep 15, 2011 5:07 AM CDT up reply actions

sometimes?

I think for a guy like him the context is important…right now there are a lot of PFs out there who could probably chew him up down low, so I think you have to be careful that he’s not put in matchups where he can be exploited. That said, his handle is good for a PF and being able to hit the open three could make him very useful as a stretch/small ball 4.

www.BrewHoop.com

by Frank Madden on Sep 15, 2011 9:25 AM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions

Give him a chance, people

He can’t be any worse than the schmucks that the Bucks currently have on their roster.

by Jeffrey Thompson on Sep 15, 2011 7:57 AM CDT reply actions

Based on descriptions on the podcast and video I have seen...

… Harris seems like a hybrid of Deng and Battier. Not great athletes, but smart players.

I think his role will be somewhat mitigated by what role if any Darington Hobson has on the team this year. I know Hobson is not officially on the team now, and is more of a 2/3 combo, but if he is healthy and ready to go, he might get some minutes behind Delfino.

by Brick's house on Sep 15, 2011 9:30 AM CDT reply actions

Man, in any case it's good to have young unknown options

Any contributions are upside if you’re not really expecting anything

by MadTown Hoops on Sep 15, 2011 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions

We can all be happy about the fact that...

…as such a young and multi-talented player, he will receive NBA caliber coaching right off the bat. It’s now a matter of whether the coaching staff can identify his NBA skills and mold his habits well enough to maximize his potential.

"Don't worry, I've got an idea. An idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about..."

by Steve von Horn on Sep 15, 2011 2:42 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions

If Hobson sticks around...

Which might not be likely, but certainly isn’t out of the question either, that would be a very…interesting combo on the wings as they both develop. Could be garbage, but it could be pretty slick too.

www.BrewHoop.com

by Dan Sinclair on Sep 15, 2011 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions

Very curious to see what happens with Hobson

Assuming Mbah a Moute is re-signed, the rookies are both signed, and Dooling/Ilyasova are back, the roster looks like this (many of these guys would shift to other spots given positional need, but you get the idea):

PG – Jennings, Udrih, Livingston, Dooling
SG – Jackson
SF – Delfino, Mbah a Moute, Harris
PF – Gooden, Ilyasova, Sanders, Brockman, Leuer
C – Bogut

That’s 14 guys, leaving one open spot…for now. It sounds like Dooling will not be back one way or the other, though it’s not clear if his exit would be via trade, buyout, etc. Then you’ve got Ersan, who might want to stay in Turkey next year regardless and could possibly buy his way out of his NBA contract, though it’s just as (or more) likely he gets traded to another NBA team or comes back and plays out his deal (which should probably be considered the default).

To me the biggest need is center, so all things being equal I’d rather go after a legit backup for Bogut than bring back Hobson. But I have to say that I’d like to do both, which could certainly happen if you clear another roster spot. Hobson strikes me as more of a 3 than a 2—from what I gather he was a combo forward in college and he’s not known for being extremely quickly—so he might not be ideal from a fit standpoint, but if he’s healthy then he could very well be worth the gamble as an end-of-the-bench type. It’s not like those guys are expected to be huge contributors anyway…at least not when your team is vaguely healthy.

www.BrewHoop.com

by Frank Madden on Sep 15, 2011 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions

my guesses...

PG – Jennings, Udrih, Livingston
SG – Jackson,
SF – Delfino, Harris, Hobson
PF – Gooden, Sanders, Brockman or Leuer (not both)
C – Bogut, Pryz
2 to be named later (no-headline FAs or trade(s) or guys I cut)

After the draft they said they liked Leuer. Do they really?

Moute & Ersan seem to think it’s time to end the relationship. With regret, I agree.

If there’s no training camp, stabilizing the Bucks roster won’t be easy.

by unklchuk on Sep 16, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions

What makes you think Moute wants to or will move on?

by Southern Marxist on Sep 17, 2011 7:32 AM CDT up reply actions

believe there was a news report, wasn't there?

Plus, IMHO:
1. Last season he played hard but didn’t show a lot of team enthusiasm.
2. He may prefer familiar LA to Milwaukee. Jabbar did, because Milw didn’t fit his interests. Moute may be a small version of that.
3. The Bucks don’t quite know what to do with him, and he may see a better career elsewhere. Gooden figures to get much of the PF PT.
4. Plus plus, in my view, we had a boring not-smart team last season with a very incomplete PG and a bunch of I’ll-shoot-but-I-won’t-make-many-of-them players and I’ll-do-it-myself-let’s-not-bother-to-pass players and that may not be his cup of tea.
5. If I was Moute (or Ersan) I’d be thinking, this isn’t enough; I can do better elsewhere. But they’re incomplete players, so IMO they’ll have to find just the right situation to flourish.

Now… maybe the team will really want one of them and Skiles will explain how things will be different. Maybe one of them will stay.

by unklchuk on Sep 17, 2011 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions

Moute is cy on his website

I reviewed the Moute website for clues on what he is thinking. He must be having his agent reviewing his posts. I could not discern what way he is leaning. I do not remember any news reports about him being dissatisfied with the Bucks, but you put forward some reasonable hypotheses regarding why he might want to move on.

I believe the saying is, ‘The grass is always greener on the other side of the hill.’

by Southern Marxist on Sep 19, 2011 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions

Interested to see where Boykins and Redd end up, assuming....

by Southern Marxist on Sep 15, 2011 6:32 PM CDT reply actions

Kinda sad that Boykins of all guys would be the odd man out

Of all the random guys from last year’s team, he probably did the most to earn his paycheck…but yeah, given the Bucks will be full at PG even if they dump Dooling there’s just no room for the little man.

And on the other side of the “earning your paycheck” spectrum….Michael Redd! Not to say I won’t root for the guy wherever he ends up, but I think at this point there’s just too much baggage for everyone involved. Best he takes a crack at becoming a rotation guy for a contender. Though it’s also been over two years since he showed he could do anything positive on a basketball court…

www.BrewHoop.com

by Frank Madden on Sep 15, 2011 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions

I’d be surprised if Redd wound up anywhere other than Miami or Chicago.

www.BrewHoop.com

by Dan Sinclair on Sep 15, 2011 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions

What fun teams to cheer for.

BrewHoop.com
twitter.com/alexboeder

by Alex Boeder on Sep 15, 2011 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions

yah...

Miami or Chicago?

Just changed my mind. I won’t be rooting for Redd. When it’s over (that far), it’s really over.

by unklchuk on Sep 16, 2011 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions

For some reason I don't hate the Heat

I can’t give a good explanation, except that I liked the Heat back during the Wade/Shaq days b/c of the Marquette connection and haven’t been able to completely reverse it. I think part of it is that everyone hates them…and I guess I’m a contrarian or something.

Not that I go out of my way to root for them at this point, but against the Bulls I had no qualms cheering for LeBron & Co.

www.BrewHoop.com

by Frank Madden on Sep 16, 2011 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions

I guess, seeing as your a contrarian...

…I’ll have to call you ‘Mary Mary’ from now on Frank ;) Quite!

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Sep 18, 2011 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions

I hated them with a passion for a little while in the season

I was still rooting for them to lose all throughout the playoffs, yeah, but after a while I was able to funnel all that hate into the Bucks’ offense…

The Artist Formerly known as Speedingtime/Speedy

www.BrewHoop.com

by Jacob Grinyer on Sep 23, 2011 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions

The Password is: Skiles....Skiles

Not sure how we get this far into this topic without someone, anyone mentioning Skiles piece to this puzzle? He of little faith when it comes to rookies, and those less fashioned in the world of defense. We must ask, (for we have not seen Any of T.H. game), how is his defensive game?

If ‘T’ is as wise as some indicate then attitude, team play, and related dynamics that go along with a Skiles based philosophy sounds like Tobias is on board.. I’ll await those much wiser then I who have seen his game relative to his defensive prowess before I make any predictions on just how this kid fits in the picture today, and seasons to come. Better yet, I’d like to see the kid play, but, well….you know the rest of that story?

by ks13and1 on Sep 16, 2011 4:24 PM CDT reply actions

Coach Skiles certainly provides a constant subtext to all discussions on Bucks personnel, but when the organization makes Harris their first-round pick, the GM and scouting staff certainly must see the requisite defensive tools, right?

There are a few things I learned about his defensive capacity from our preparation and execution for this podcast:

(1) He is not a premier individual defender at this point, but he has size and athleticism to be a quality team defender in Skiles’ scheme. In fact, Frank noted from one of his individual matchups against Kentucky SF Terrance Jones (a noted NBA prospect) that Harris was able to hold Jones to a sub-par day (3-15 FGs).

(2) His work ethic and maturity should help him integrate quickly and endear himself to Skiles and the staff.

(3) If he plays at SF, we still don’t know enough about his lateral quickness to say he will be ready to play up to Skiles’ standards right away, but the Bucks did match Harris up against perimeter players in his pre-draft workouts and were comfortable enough with his performances to make the pick.

Not sure if that is helpful at all, but that’s what I’ve got.

"Don't worry, I've got an idea. An idea so smart my head would explode if I even began to know what I was talking about..."

by Steve von Horn on Sep 16, 2011 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions

Question for Dan...

…are you going to reprise the Brew Hoop Fantasy League again this season (season pending of course!)?

Squad Six is to the Bucks what beer is to Milwaukee (or anywhere else for that matter)... the catalyst for you doing dumb things in public and not feeling self-conscious!

by Big Crazy Dave on Sep 18, 2011 5:56 PM CDT reply actions

If and when the season starts, I’m definitely happy to set up a league. I’d probably want to put the cutoff at about half the season (i.e. if we lose more than that, I wouldn’t do it), although if the interest is great enough, I have no problem putting it together.

www.BrewHoop.com

by Dan Sinclair on Sep 19, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions