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Kings 103, Bucks 100: Milwaukee Spontaneously Combusts In Second Half

Box Score

Just...horrifying.

You could use many words to describe the events that led to the Bucks' third consecutive defeat on their Western road trip, but let's begin with that one.

In a general sense, the Bucks losing by three on the road, even to a disjointed, disappointing Sacramento team, would hardly be shocking. Not with the way Milwaukee has started the season, and certainly not with Andrew Bogut, Luc Mbah a Moute and Mike Dunleavy missing in action for assorted reasons. The fact that Paul Westphal was fired hours before tip-off realistically shouldn't have hurt the Kings either, not with the way DeMarcus Cousins and company had seemingly given up on Westphal. And the fact that Sacramento was playing its third game in as many days? Well, we know the Bucks don't have a knack for taking advantage of that anyway.

But context matters, and for most of the night you could have forgotten (at least temporarily) about all the reasons why you shouldn't have bothered staying up to watch this game in the first place. Could the Bucks really lose on a night when they shoot a ridiculous-for-them 51% and score 100 points? And when they lead 58-37 at the half?

Horrifyingly...yes.

Star-divide


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Milwaukee rode its hot shooting, unselfish play, and a healthy dose of indifference from the Kings to a dominating first half and led by as many as 13 with eight minutes remaining, all of which made the outcome all the more disappointing. Up until that you would have been forgiven for allowing yourself a glimmer of optimism. Were the Bucks turning the corner a little? Getting the confidence (and a much-needed win) to help usher them through a difficult month?

It certainly looked like that for about 40 minutes. But the bad, deer-in-headlights Bucks then reared their heads. Sacramento began pressuring on the perimeter defensively, and even helping when the Bucks drove (imagine that). Turnovers, mostly of the should-have-known-better variety, and many of them courtesy of Stephen Jackson and Drew Gooden, denied the Bucks shots and handed the Kings opportunities to break.

And offensively Sacramento simply crushed the Bucks on the boards, collecting a mind-numbing 23 offensive rebounds en route to a 55-31 edge. It's one thing to get destroyed on the boards when the other team has a significant shooting advantage--defensive boards are much easier to collect--but to let it happen when the other team is the one missing shots? All the worse, and for the Bucks it was clearly a team effort. Milwaukee allowed too many shots in the paint, and those shots when missed inevitably seemed to end up in King hands. Blame it on the rebounders, but blame it on the defenders, too.

It started early, with the Kings snagging seven offensive bounds on their first 15 misses. Skiles yanked Carlos Delfino and Ersan Ilyasova in favor of Larry Sanders and Shaun Livingston after just four minutes with the Bucks down four, and it seemed to work. After his 0/7 night from deep in Utah, Jennings hit his first three triples to help the Bucks lead 30-25 after one, mostly thanks to an 11/17 effort from the field. As TheJay mentioned in the game thread, it was the fourth time in six games this season that the Bucks cracked 30 in the opening period, compared to just eight times in 82 games last season. Go figure. Sharing was the name of the game: Brandon Jennings was active using screeners on P&R (mostly Gooden) and picked up four assists in the period despite a couple of blown layups. Heck, even Larry Sanders was setting up guys for easy looks.

The Bucks then blew the game open (but not shut) in the second, carving up the King defense to the tune of 61% shooting in the half including 4/5 from three. Sacramento was lax in transition and lacked discipline in the half-court, allowing the Bucks clean looks that they thankfully took advantage of. Drew Gooden was at his weirdly effective best on the offensive end (14 points in the half), and even Stephen Jackson had his moments. Offensively, the Kings fell victim to plenty of ball-watching as Tyreke Evans (14 in the half, 26 points on 18 shots, 10 rebounds, five assists for the game) was the only interested party with a slew of nifty drives that Jackson, Udrih and Livingston (Jennings was guarding Marcus Thornton and Jimmer Fredette most of the night) couldn't stop.

Every Kings turnover seemed to cost them points--either because it denied what might have been an easy look (see: Thornton turning a 4-on-1 into a turnover) or led to a Bucks transition opportunity the other way. The 12 points the Kings scored in the second was the fewest the Bucks have allowed in a quarter this season.

But the Kings started the third with more energy and the Bucks needed all of Jennings' play-making best to keep the Kings at arm's length. Thornton shook off a cold start and begain to warm, using pick and roll to get into the lane and find little resistance from 12 feet and in. Cousins continued to bludgeon the Bucks on the glass on his way to 15 boards. Jennings' long three in the final seconds of the third extended the Bucks lead back to a healthier 82-68, but the Kings were just getting started.

The Kings made six straight shots early in the final period, with only Jennings' eight points and two assists keeping them at bay. But as they did so regularly a year ago, the Bucks simply folded down the stretch--new personnel, old personnel, whatever. The Kings went on a 17-4 run after Jackson came in for Livingston with 6:24 remaining, and it was Jackson who fittingly bricked a difficult fadeaway with five seconds remaining and the Bucks down a point. For all his gumption and fearlessness, Jackson's the last guy who deserve to take a last-second shot at the moment, so it was strangely (predictably?) fitting that the Bucks' collapse was completed by their least effective offensive player.

Three Bucks

Brandon Jennings. Jennings broke out of his three point funk in a major way, hitting 6/10 from long range en route to a season-high 31 points (12/23 fg), seven assists and five steals. He was the only constant for the Bucks all night and hit a wild right-handed scoop shot to give the Bucks a three point lead with 58 seconds remaining, but he also had his share of missed opportunities down the stretch. A pair of missed free throws after a steal with five minutes left. A bad pass that led to Sacramento free throws with 1:20 left. And a difficult but wayward shot off the inbound that could have tied the game at the horn. Jennings deserved better than to come away with a loss, but not even he was immune to the Bucks' customary late-game meltdown.

Larry Sanders. Despite his relative lack of scoring efficiency (19 points on 18 shots), Cousins was a force down low before fouling out in the late-going. But Sanders also played his role well (4/7 fg, 3 reb, 4 ast, 2 stl, 1 blk, 1 to) and it was no coincidence the Bucks finished +10 with him on the court. Yes, his bad hands cost him an alley-oop feed from Jennings early and a lost dribble in the third, but he generally did well finding open spaces, finishing around the hoop, rebounding his area and even made a number of smart passes that led to four assists (plus a blown layup from Jennings that should have been a fifth).

Shaun Livingston. I could have easily gone with Jon Leuer here (6 pts, 3/5 fg, 3 reb, 3 ast, 2 stl, +16), who teamed with Sanders off the bench and led the Bucks in net differential. But it feels wrong picking two frontcourt players in a game when the Bucks were annihilated on the boards, so let's single out Livingston instead (6 pts, 3/5 fg, 3 reb, 3 ast, 2 stl). Along with Sanders, he was the spark that turned around the game early in the first quarter, and you wonder if the Bucks might have won had Jackson not replaced him down the stretch.

Three Numbers

23. The Bucks could point to Bogut's absence as a big reason for their rebounding struggles tonight, but the problem with that argument is that they've stunk in that department even with Bogut in the lineup. There's simply no way this team consistently wins games unless it can be a top ten defensive rebounding team, and right now they're not close--second to last in the entire league behind (drumroll...) Sacramento.

7. Jackson turned it over seven times after racking up six in Utah and four in each of the previous two games. Most of us were resigned to the fact that Jackson would take a ton of bad shots and shoot a low percentage, but the fact that he's also been a turnover machine has made him an absolute killer on the offensive end.

-24. It's not just the fourth quarter. Milwaukee was run off the court in the second half, allowing the Kings to walk all over them to the tune of a 66-42 advantage.

Three Two Good

Brandon bounces back. Jennings bounced back from two very disappointing efforts with his best all-around game of the season, and the vague hope that games like this might signify some sort of broader improvement in Jennings' game is the only real reason for casual Bucks fans to bother watching the Bucks' next game against the Clippers on Saturday. For better or (more likely) worse, I will be there in person.

It's early! I know it's a total copout to use this as a "good" thing, but perspective is important. There's a big difference psychologically between winning this game to go 3-3 and losing it to drop to 2-4, but either way the season is only 9% complete and all is not lost. The Bucks will inevitably blow more games this year, but they'll steal some too. The only problem is we've already seen two of the former and none of the latter.

Three Bad

Rebounding. The Bucks' offense is usually an easy target, but their inability to prevent second chances is killing them as much or more right now. That was especially true tonight: the Kings couldn't stop the Bucks from hitting better than 50% from the field, but they somehow got away with it because of their tremendous effort on the glass.

Choke artists. As a sporting culture we're strangely obsessed with the concept of clutch; players can dominate for 99% of the season, but mess up a few "clutch" at bats, throws or shots and everything else suddenly becomes irrelevant. It's often just a lazy, talk radio narrative--a cheap way for pundits and fans to parse blame and discredit and humanize players who are otherwise unassailable. But it also reflects the fundamental frustrations and joys of being a fan; in the clutch is where our emotions, good and bad, are magnified. So tonight Bucks fans should be forgiven for wanting to put a brick through their HDTVs and crying choke. We've watched the Bucks fail to finish off opponents enough times over the past year to call it a trend, and so far a new season is doing nothing to change that.

This was the easy game. There are no gimmes for the Bucks right now--especially without Bogut--but the maddening thing is that the Bucks are 0-3 on a road trip that presented them three very winnable road games to start. If they were going to win a game it would have been this one; instead they now have to pick themselves off the mat and face Blake Griffin and Chris Paul on Saturday.

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Although I dont like the quick trigger you see in pro sports now

You have to think Skiles is on his last leg here. Games like this are killer. I dont see it happening now or even in the next week. But it just seems like this team is missing something. Not Bogut they looked bad with him in there too. I dont necessarily think its coaching but this team does have talent. Not alot but enough to be a solid team that fights for a 5 or 6 seed. As a 49ers fan I know what good coaching can do to under achieving talent. I just want to see this team do well. Nights like tonight are rough.

by Collin B on Jan 6, 2012 2:51 AM CST reply actions  

Im starting

to actually feel sorry for Skiles this team atm is just meh and I think he has no idea how to give this team an x factor.

by Blazza18 on Jan 6, 2012 3:41 AM CST up reply actions  

I hope not... there isnt a guy on our bench that I think really does a better job than Skiles for the rest of the year...

I think the Bucks will turn it around eventually just enough to either scrape into the 8th seed or barely miss the playoffs… the problem on our team is that we are laden with good role players but we don’t have any stars… except for Bogues who mises 20 games a season

by Superelkman on Jan 6, 2012 10:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Is Bogut a star?

I don’t really think so. He’s a pretty good centre in a league void of good centres. If you took his level of play and applied it to a different position I think you would find he’s slightly above average.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 10:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Bought could have reached that second-teir "star" level

Had he not destroyed his elbow. Great defense plus above-average offense would put him right there behind Dwight Howard.

http://twitter.com/WhalesLarry ...but only if you want to see someone still trying to figure Twitter out.

by Mitchell Maurer on Jan 6, 2012 3:21 PM CST up reply actions  

No offense but above average offense?

I’d argue that. And it’s almost like being the second best centre in the NBA is like getting the second best grade in school when the first mark is 95% and second is 60%. It’s not really close. Bogut needs to be on a team that doesn’t need him to score, not happening here.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 3:27 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd say Boguts offense was above-avg before the injury

Didn’t he avg 16ppg that yr? Obviously, not Kareem – but really looked like a legit #1 pick before that gruesome injury.

There were games where he was flat out dominant – and we RARELY saw that in the yrs prior – maybe now and then, but he was really putting it all together at the time of the injury IMO.

by victor s on Jan 6, 2012 3:49 PM CST up reply actions  

I think this sums up everyone's feelings towards the Bucks

http://twitter.com/WhalesLarry ...but only if you want to see someone still trying to figure Twitter out.

by Mitchell Maurer on Jan 6, 2012 3:04 AM CST reply actions  

Replay is on Leaguepass now

Who in the heck wants to watch that crap again?

by FearTheDeer on Jan 6, 2012 8:02 AM CST reply actions  

Oh yeah

Even though, there didn’t appear to be too many of those at Power Balance Pavilion either

by FearTheDeer on Jan 6, 2012 10:53 AM CST up reply actions  

My too-long comment from postgame last night


Basketball is so mental

When the zombie started crawling out of the grave, I kept denying it. Kept telling myself that just because the Kings were closing the gap didn’t mean the Bucks had to lose. That one team would play pretty well at the end, and it could easily be the Bucks, esp since Jennings and others were having pretty good games.

But in the last couple minutes I slumped into acceptance.

The Kings just needed to keep on doing what they had been doing. The Bucks didn’t know what to do back except flail around with little purpose. Also realized that our giving up copious quantities of offensive rebounds wasn’t just the luck of the cards. It was because none of our bigs could compete. They were weak, or slow.

Then the team went to Gooden, who had played pretty well with the game not on the line. In crunch time, though, the opponent will play some defense. And Gooden going one-on-one will struggle. Did struggle, turned the ball over 2X think. Jennings made a couple key baskets. But did he run a crunch time offense? For the last play, they went to Steven Jackson going one-on-one and taking a low percentage jump shot against good defense. If that’s the best shot we can get, then we won’t be winning many of those close games.

I thought our players walked off the court knowing and feeling how inadequate they had been. It wasn’t a matter of who was missing in the lineup. It was a matter of both a) not knowing what they wanted to do, and b) not having the heart to come even close to doing it. The season, even this one, is long. The ending is not written. But this is not a team of over-achievers.

It’s a group of guys who are, more or less, willing to play team ball, but don’t know how. And because teamwork does not make each of them better, they are guys who can’t meet the challenge.


ETA: In team sports you should never be as low as the latest failure suggests. And never as high as the latest glorious victory suggests. It’s the pattern of many games that shows the quality of the season. But, still and all… they should put up an historical marker at the scene of last night’s loss. It means something pretty chilling…

by unklchuk on Jan 6, 2012 9:10 AM CST reply actions  

I mentioned this last night...

But I gotta ask again, why is Skiles so allergic to the idea of a momentum killing time out? Hell, after the second of four straight turnovers with no points, why didn’t one of the players call TO? Is that part of the leadership void on the floor?

by Brick's house on Jan 6, 2012 9:31 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

I have NOT been piling on Skiles (like they do in some forums)

But was it his decision to try to get too much out of Udrih? Was it his decision to rely on Gooden going one-on-one? His decision to have Jackson force that poor last second shot?

If they were his calls, I doubt his offensive capabilities. If they weren’t his calls, why the hell didn’t he make better calls? I swear in his postgame interviews he sounds like an in-house observer. Not The Head Coach. “We stood around…” “We dribbled too much…” We didn’t move, we didn’t share the ball…"

Mr. Skiles, make the team play your way during the game, when it’s in play. Don’t just offer a sad critique after the game has been lost.

by unklchuk on Jan 6, 2012 9:39 AM CST up reply actions  

I've read

…more than once or twice that it’s too late for Gooden this year. Perhaps that means too late for anyone this year.

by unklchuk on Jan 6, 2012 9:41 AM CST up reply actions  

I think it's just one amnesty

…applied to a player under contract when the agreement was reached.

So could go (after the season) to Gooden, to Jackson, was rumored to Udrih. But would not apply to the next high-priced downward-trending vet we bring on board. Nor to the one after that; to the one after that, etc.

by unklchuk on Jan 6, 2012 9:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Jackson or Gooden though

Tough call.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 11:01 AM CST up reply actions  

My bet would be neither.

Jackson will be an expiring contract next season, Gooden is still a serviceable player with a contract that might be long, it isn’t that overpriced in this market.

The only way Gooden is gone, is if Leuer or Sanders continues to get better through the whole season to the point that either becomes a starting caliber power forward in the NBA. The Bucks won’t dump Gooden’s contract if they don’t already have a starting power forward in house.

by Brick's house on Jan 6, 2012 11:48 AM CST up reply actions  

You're likely right

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 12:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I do not agree with that strategy

This is what gets us in trouble in he first place. If he starter eats all the minutes, you will never get to see how good he others will be. To rebuild, you must be willing to get worse.

by tommyr on Jan 6, 2012 1:11 PM CST up reply actions  

What say thee, Mr. Hammond?

If you say “Just wait until we get our guys back!” then you are a delusional fool.

But if you say and do nothing, then perhaps you are a GM whose Owner has lost all faith in you. And won’t let you act.

If management could suspend time for Mr. Kohl to choose his course, that would be OK. It can’t. So Herbo is likely to fiddle (and fiddle and fiddle) while the Cousin’s Center burns.

If the team compass holds on the direction set by last night’s effort, “strong measures may be required.” Let’s see. The Kohl pattern is for Outside Guys with Credentials (Nelson, Karl, maybe Hammond/Skiles) to be succeeded by Inside Guys with Small Paychecks. (“Paychecks” is NOT a sexual innuendo.)

I suppose that might mean one of Kohl’s Kronies (you know, those faceless basketball advisors who just happen to lack a basketball background) as GM, temporary GM. And Sidney Moncrief as Head Coach.

by unklchuk on Jan 6, 2012 9:48 AM CST reply actions  

Hammond does some things well... i think he has drafted well under the circumstances...

Hammond does some things poorly… sign/trade for overpriced losers

The second one may be under the pressure of ownership to win now but I think it is really hurting us and burdening us with other teams castaways for the last few years…

by Superelkman on Jan 6, 2012 10:16 AM CST up reply actions  

I think that Hammond is in a bind.

Without decent draft picks, the Bucks can’t get premier talent, without premier talent, they can’t attract quality free agents in a small market.

Perhaps his biggest mistake was trading for Maggette and resigning Salmons. The failure of those moves forced him to take on S. Jax just to do a your crap for mine move with hopes of getting better chemistry. The team did well to get Udrih and Livingston in the deal though and Harris is the wildcard here.

by Brick's house on Jan 6, 2012 10:23 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree... The 46 win season we had, although fun, was probably the worst thing to happen to us...

It entrenched Kohl in his win now stance rather than staying the course with young players and letting them develop…

by Superelkman on Jan 6, 2012 10:28 AM CST up reply actions  

That is an excellent point

They over-achieved, with all the stars aligning correctly. But it is clear that it was not repeatable or sustainable. Kohl was duped into thinkng otherwise.

by tommyr on Jan 6, 2012 10:36 AM CST up reply actions  

me thinks I was duped too

thought “whole greater than the sum of the parts” had been realized…

by unklchuk on Jan 6, 2012 11:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Just getting depressing

My early goodwill towards Jax is fading. I’ve given up on Jennings, his postives don’t make up for his lack of defense and complete inability to close a game.

But really, Skiles has got to go. As usual, not all blame can be placed on the coach, but I just don’t see him ever being able to get this group to look a little bit professional during the last 6 minutes of a game.

by Bucksnorge on Jan 6, 2012 9:56 AM CST reply actions  

Jennings is Jennings... he is an OK PG....

Jax is a piece of crap…

Skiles really has little to work with…

by Superelkman on Jan 6, 2012 10:17 AM CST up reply actions  

Canary in the coal mine

That’s my view of Jennings. Still think he’s an asset to the team. But the team doesn’t depend on him for its level of play. He depends on it.

If the team is moving, passing, making assists, making shots, then Jennings is the swizzle stick that stirs the drink. The multiplier, who takes Good and makes it Very Good.

But if the team is stuck in zombie ball, Jennings can’t make it all better. Can’t lift the team. Can try to do it all himself, with occasional success. But that’s individual stuff, not PG stuff.

Canary Jennings is only as healthy as the team he finds around him.

by unklchuk on Jan 6, 2012 10:06 AM CST reply actions  

Went to bed at the half last night

Woke up and turned on the computer and was disappointed, but sadly not surprised. Two questions that to me beg asking:

1. If we are getting killed on the boards, why oh why is Brockman not getting some burn as rebounding is probably the one thing he can do half decently

2. Jackson=last years Salmons. When Jackson has not shown a heck of a lot this year on the floor, probably not in the best interest of the team to be running a play for him.

Fire Skiles? If the next two games are as bad I’d say yes.
Larry Brown needs a new gig(jk)

Chuk I agree with you 100% about Jennings, he’s not elite enough to carry the team but he can be very good with the right pieces around him.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 10:12 AM CST reply actions  

What to do? IMO

Actively pursue trading any of these players:

Delfino, Ilyasova, Bogut, Jackson, Udrih, Gooden hopefully for picks or young unproven players. Play for the rest of the year Jennings, Hobson, Harris, Sanders and whoever you have left after the trades. Blow this up real good. And I wouldn’t necessarily exclude Jennings from the trade talk, if you get a good deal for him, by all means pull the trigger.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 11:11 AM CST reply actions  

Good ol' Skiles

Same old song. Glad we scored 100 tonight, that was a surprise, but I’m not surprised we gave up over 100 without Bogut. Outside of that, same old poor coaching. He never knows when to call timeout. He watched us start the 4th qtr with a 14 point lead and waited til the lead shed to 4 points before he decided to call time out. Out of the time out, we ran a play to Jackson who already has 6 TOs on the night, who expectedly turned the ball over again. His substitution patterns are hideous and I won’t do particulars because his sub patterns are hideous in general.

He may hold players accountable on defense, he may get effort out of his players on defense, but this his in-game management is piss poor.

by FearTheDeer on Jan 6, 2012 11:20 AM CST reply actions  

Off with his head I say.......

I think the time may have come. A few end of game issues this year has costs us for sure.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions  

If you don't blow the team up firing Skiles doesn't make any sense...

Boylan isn’t going to inspire anything more out of the players and getting a new coach midseason is impossible…

by Superelkman on Jan 6, 2012 11:47 AM CST up reply actions  

And I want to blow it up

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Agreed

I’m not usually in favor of a mid-season coach firing, because it limits the hiring options to mostly internal promotion. I would have been ok if we still had Sampson, but we don’t. The only advantage to firing Skiles mid-season is that we would probably lose more games under Boylan or whoever.

by FearTheDeer on Jan 6, 2012 12:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Let the draft lottery discussions begin...

And the trade discussions…

And the firing of Skiles and/or Hammond[s] discussions…

by victor s on Jan 6, 2012 12:03 PM CST reply actions  

Already has,,,

I mentioned before trade anyone not named Sanders, Harris, Hobson, Leuer, Luc for young players and/or picks
Fire Skiles use Boylan as interim
Keep Hammonds for the time being

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 12:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Will Herbert Kohl approve such a blowup?

That is the $64,000 question, my friends. If so, do you then find a GM who has executed such a plan before?

by tommyr on Jan 6, 2012 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Isaiah Thomas no wait.........

Kiki?

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 12:27 PM CST up reply actions  

No

I think he will fire Skiles and Hammond tho, not trade anyone that’s not in their first 3 years.

If this team is going to get blown up, Luc must go with the rest.

Jennings, Hobson, Harris, Leuer, Sanders stay and nobody else is spared.

by FearTheDeer on Jan 6, 2012 12:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Why would you spare BJ? PGs like him are a dime a dozen, and he probably has trade value of some sort.

Sorry, but he’s not nearly talented enough to “build around” IMO

Frankly, I don’t think there’s one player on this team that is worth building around…. Bogues would probably shine as a 2nd or 3rd option on a contender – and BJ would probably make an excellent 6th man on a lot of teams – but niether are “franchise” type talents….

by victor s on Jan 6, 2012 12:36 PM CST reply actions  

yeah... sadly agree...

I do think Jennings can be a starter on a winning team… He generally takes care of the ball, give good effort on D, and is actually decent from three especially if he had someone else setting him up for better shots more often… I just think he can’t be anything more than your 3rd or 4th best offensive option

by Superelkman on Jan 6, 2012 12:41 PM CST up reply actions  

This article about Kyle Lowry might give you hope when it comes to Jennings.

by Brick's house on Jan 6, 2012 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't if I felt I could get value for him

My post a little further up mentions that, it’s just that he’s younger and less injury prone than Bogut. I would disagree though about Bogut being 2nd or 3rd option on a contender, he’s slightly better than Tyson Chandler, but shooting %s have been in decline and I don’t think opposing teams really worry about him on offense that much. I think now is the best time to trade him as we see the attention Chandler, Nene and Jordan got, just not sure if:
a)The Bucks would do it
b)There’s a partner out there that would want Bogut(Mavs maybe, but they don’t have a pick unless you would want Mahinmi/Williams/Wright/Beaubois)

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Bogut has value... he is a top 5 paint defender as he can block shots, plays good help defense, and takes charges...

His post defense is also good although he can struggle with quicker frontcourt players if he has to guard them away from the basket…

his offensive game isn’t good… he has flashes here and there but offensively he should ideally be able to crash the glass almost ever time down and get the ball in the post when a mismatch presents itself…

by Superelkman on Jan 6, 2012 1:51 PM CST up reply actions  

I meant value for BJ

I know you can get something for Bogut

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

I sadly agree too

I venture to think that most of us have believed this for a while, but our hope may have tempered it a bit.

by tommyr on Jan 6, 2012 1:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Talent is not the issue

It’s consistency.

http://twitter.com/WhalesLarry ...but only if you want to see someone still trying to figure Twitter out.

by Mitchell Maurer on Jan 6, 2012 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd personally wait until the season mercifully ends - and trade to get the top 2 or 3 pick.

Give up whoever/whatever the other team would want – and grab A Davis or H Barnes [or whomever you feel has the most “star” potential], and let the “rebuilding” begin.

*I left A Drummond out because he bust written all over him IMO

by victor s on Jan 6, 2012 1:02 PM CST reply actions  

I think you try to make a trade or two during the season

With specific criteria for doing it. If it doesn’t work out, you wait.

by tommyr on Jan 6, 2012 1:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Well you aren't going to get a lottery pick probably

A lot of them are protected and Detroit, Toronto, Cleveland etc aren’t trading theirs for our dregs. Tommy you’re right, you make trades that meet the standards you are looking for and if not…..move on

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 1:10 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd think some combo of Bogut, BJ, Luc and our mid-late lottery pick would do....

Especially for a team that feels they’re a player or two away from becoming a legit PO team

by victor s on Jan 6, 2012 1:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Right?!

There’s gonna be a few top-5 lottery teams that have young talent and would probably prefer to plug existing holes w/ established players, versus a one-and-done lottery pick.

by victor s on Jan 6, 2012 1:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Hypothetically - say you're Washington...

You wouldn’t give up the 2nd or 3rd pick for Bogut, Luc and the 7th overall pick?

[I know, I know – I’m playing GM – but you get the idea]

by victor s on Jan 6, 2012 1:31 PM CST up reply actions  

And I gotta think that Jax's expiring deal would have value

Not sure expiring contracts have the same value they used to w/ the new CBA, though…

by victor s on Jan 6, 2012 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

One more year until it's expiring

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 1:44 PM CST up reply actions  

The idea is to make moves to make your pick better

Isn’t it?

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 1:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Washington would probably not

Luc would have no value for Washington(Singleton, Vesely)nor would anyone else on the roster. And what would Bogut mean for Washington anyway…..go from 15 wins to 18-20? I can’t see any of the lower teams doing that.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 1:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Possibility

What you hope to do is take advantage of teams that already have too many oung players and who may or may not be in a rebuilding situation themselves.

by tommyr on Jan 6, 2012 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Like??????

Maybe you’re right but I don’t think so. I think for Bogut anyway Dallas, Minny(maybe), Atlanta(Maybe), GS, Boston and Sacramento(maybe)might be interested. Bogut is probably the only guy on our squad who would warrant a high first and as mentioned most of those are protected.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think Bogut alone is enough to get the top 2 or 3 pick....

Probably have to throw in another player and/or our first – or future first[s]

by victor s on Jan 6, 2012 1:48 PM CST up reply actions  

In that case

I’d rather trade Bogut for assets and keep our own.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I disagree there... I think Drummond will be the stud of this next class... guys with his athleticism, coordination, and production at a high level are rare...

He is going for 10 points, 7 boards, and 2.7 blocks on 60% shooting in 26 minutes at a high level of college ball… it is true that big guys are usually higher risk, higher reward but drummond looks like the real deal as long as there arent mental issues im unaware of

by Superelkman on Jan 6, 2012 1:55 PM CST up reply actions  

I think there's a lot of possible value in the first round

Lamb, Sullinger, Rivers to name a few more plus the two Jones that withdrew last year.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 1:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I like all those guys, BUT....

I don’t see any of them becoming all-NBA…. Maybe Lamb – but A Davis and Barnes are the cream of the crop IMO

[Drummond could be, but im not sold on him]

Lamb = Jason Richardson [not a bad thing, but not a franchise cornerstone, either]
Sullinger = Too undersized and slow to dominate in the NBA
Rivers = combo guard w/ a dive persona [supposedly]

I know I’m kinda splittin hairs – but the point of making a major move is to land a great player, not just a good one

by victor s on Jan 6, 2012 2:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Drummond has all the physical skills to be the next Dwight Howard IMO

But he does not show it nearly often enough. Guys with his size and ability should physically dominate in the paint, yet he doesn’t…

I’ve read that he doesn’t have “killer instinct” and is too happy defering to others, and coasting on his natural ability and size.

But he clearly has the size and ability to be the best player in the draft…

by victor s on Jan 6, 2012 2:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd be down w/ that - but then there's the whole "I dont want to play in Milw" factor...

That most of the NBAs “better” players have – that’s why I suggest going for a high pick.

FWIW – Barnes and Davis are supposedly high-character guys that probably wouldn’t mind playing here [and they’re both midwest boys, too]

by victor s on Jan 6, 2012 1:09 PM CST reply actions  

Bogut to Dallas with 2 of Brockman,Ersan or Delfino(or anyone other than the kids)

For Lamar Odom, Ian Mahinmi and either Cardinal or Dominque Jones(Cardinal if you’re not high on Jones). Probably wouldn’t be allowed to trade Odom at the deadline but might be good to hold his Bird rights. Not sure if that works but I think that’s the kind of deal you can get for Bogut.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 2:04 PM CST reply actions  

Probably - but that defeats the purpose, IMO

To me – if you’re gonna make a big move like trading Bogues and/or other players and/or picks, it should be with the purpose of getting an all-NBA type talent.

and I think Odom would retire before he’d play in Milw…

by victor s on Jan 6, 2012 2:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Odom playing for Milwaukee isn't part of the plan

You have to match salaries and the only other candidates are Kidd, Hayward and Marion. Odom and Kidd are both expiring so my guess is that Odom is more relaceable for Dallas(marion) than Kidd. You then have Odom’s bird rights, Mahinmi and Jones. Honestly Vic just don’t see anyone with a high pick trading for Bogut, and maybe our pick is top 5 with a few moves like this.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 2:48 PM CST up reply actions  

The Mavs won't take on any long term deals because they are trying to open cap space for Howard and/or D Will.

Odom is there more for his expiring contract than anything he brings on the floor, especially this year.

by Brick's house on Jan 6, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Thought they might be interested at a repeat

Would Bogut give them one more kick at the can?

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 2:49 PM CST up reply actions  

I think if repeating was Cuban's priority, he would have kept Chandler around.

He got his championship, now he is starting to think about the future. Here is an email explaining his off season moves.

by Brick's house on Jan 6, 2012 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

fair enough

There’s gotta be a couple teams that would think Bogut would make them close though.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 3:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I think Bogut would probably get them to the West. Finals - but i dunno if he'd get them over the hump.

I think losing Barea hurt them more than they thought….

I don’t Bogut alone warrants a top 3 pick… but packaged w/ BJ and/or Luc and/or our pick does.

I know it’d be a pretty steep price to pay – but that’s what it would take IMO [and really the Bucks only shot at getting a “star” type player]

by victor s on Jan 6, 2012 2:57 PM CST reply actions  

My thought there is that if you trade Bogut, BJ and/or Luc

Your pick is top 5 anyway so why bother ….Get some young assets and tank your pick

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 3:24 PM CST up reply actions  

No one should be completely untouchable if we're rebuilding

but if there is one player that should be considered the least likely to move during a rebuild, it’s Jennings. Harris (19), Jennings (22), Leuer (22), Sanders (23), Hobson (24)

I want to hear somebody come up with a basis for why we should keep Leuer, Sanders, Hobson but not Jennings? I’ll spare Harris the fact that he’s almost 3 years younger. Otherwise, there is no rationale basis whatsoever. It’s just personal preference and frustration.

by FearTheDeer on Jan 6, 2012 3:50 PM CST reply actions  

An NBA players prime?

Typically starts at what age? 25? Til almost 30? I think BJ could be a pretty good player in 3 years.

by FearTheDeer on Jan 6, 2012 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I have never given up on him.

I am aware of his weaknesses, but are they correctable?

by tommyr on Jan 6, 2012 4:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I would only trade Jennings

If I got a good offer….If someone is in dire need of a PG at the deadline(Knicks, Lakers)I might do it if the price was right but I would like to go with Jennings, Hobson, harris, Sanders and Leuer for the rest of the season.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 4:25 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd think he'd more valueable in a package, versus straight up

I think NY would probably love to have him – but they don’t really have much to give in exchange…

by victor s on Jan 6, 2012 4:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Nothing is more like it

Fields straight up….No thanks

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 5:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Lol. Yup.

T Douglas, Fields, and a 1st might do it, though…

by victor s on Jan 6, 2012 5:33 PM CST up reply actions  

New York?

With a first? Not since 1846 I think

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 5:52 PM CST up reply actions  

No way

Douglass would be a completely unnecessary piece except for contract matching, that case I’d rather ask for Shumpert. I’m not sure I’d do Jennings for Shumpert, Fields, and a NYK 1st. If we’re talking about getting a Washington Wizards 1st well of course we trade Jennings, but for a 10-20th pick, I’m keeping Jennings.

by FearTheDeer on Jan 6, 2012 7:06 PM CST up reply actions  

My feeling is ...

If they are willing to dump Jennings, there can be little justification for for keeping anybody else, except maybe Leuer and Harris.

by tommyr on Jan 6, 2012 4:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I know I bash BJ a lot, so I'll keep it brief....

His FG% is terrible and has gone down each yr

His passing/vision is avg [at best]

His D is mediocre [at best]

And none of things appear to get better w/ age – not to mention that his best trait, quickness, will fade w/ age.

To me, he’s a glorified playgroung PG who has shown little-to-no improvement [granted, it’s only 2+yrs]

I just don’t see it…. but that’s just me.

He is a pretty good FT shooter and doesn’t commit a lot of TOs, though…. soooo…. that’s good, right ; )

by victor s on Jan 6, 2012 4:07 PM CST reply actions  

I just don't think he has hit his ceiling yet ...

Which is something you cannot say for most of the rest of this roster. I would rather see what he can do with different teammates han dump him and have o find another PG. That’s just me.

by tommyr on Jan 6, 2012 4:10 PM CST up reply actions  

He is absolutely more than mediocre at defense

Undersized, yes, but he is a good defender, and there is ample evidence to that end.

This Basketball Prospectus article is the best I can do on my iPad, but trust me, there’s more proof.

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1071

http://twitter.com/WhalesLarry ...but only if you want to see someone still trying to figure Twitter out.

by Mitchell Maurer on Jan 6, 2012 4:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Just for the record, his FG percentage has actually increased each year. From 37.1 to 39.0 to 40.7 so far this year.

by CHAController on Jan 6, 2012 5:20 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

His FT% really bothers me

One of his best skills, but he’s just not converting

http://twitter.com/WhalesLarry ...but only if you want to see someone still trying to figure Twitter out.

by Mitchell Maurer on Jan 6, 2012 5:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I honestly don't know what to make of Kohl's ownership....

He has spent freely in the past [if i remember correctly] – and he doesn’t seem to meddle in the GMs business.

But overall, his team has sucked for a LONG time…

by victor s on Jan 6, 2012 4:27 PM CST reply actions  

He has spent freely in the past

A bit too freely, me thinks…

by Jacob Grinyer on Jan 6, 2012 5:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Especially with Larry Harris at the helm

The late great Bill Veeck, of Chicago White Sox fame said: “it’s not the stars that break the bank; it’s the high cost of mediocrity.”

That quote was over 50 years ago.

Point taken: Stop overpaying for marginal talent.

by tommyr on Jan 6, 2012 8:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Ok so lets say we go with a core of

Jennings, Hobson, Harris Sanders and Leuer. That leaves:

Ersan-expiring trade if possible
Delfino-ditto
Jackson-trade if possible or very end of bench
Dunleavy-doesn’t matter
Brockman-ditto
Luc-trade if possilbe, hello Denver still interested?
Bogut-trade for any assets, picks or young talent
Udrih-trade if possible
Livingston-keep
Gooden-same as Jackson

Pretty sure you would get a decent chance at a high pick with that line-up and whateer other assets you can get from trades

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 5:58 PM CST reply actions  

Trading BJ would certainly sweeten the deal for some desperate team ; )

Would you package BJ & Bogut for the #1 or 2 pick? [provided you thought the pick would be a franchise changing-type player]

by victor s on Jan 6, 2012 6:14 PM CST reply actions  

No one is going to take that in this draft but yes I would as long as we got to dump a contract as well....

to be good in the nba you have to suck for a couple years and that would guarantee we would while getting two top 7 picks this year… another top 7 next year, and another lottery the next season before being fucking awesome

by Superelkman on Jan 6, 2012 6:36 PM CST up reply actions  

A GM would probably be castrated for trading a lottery pick this year

And even so is there a franchise-changing player available? Who was the last one, Rose? Not even sure he qualifies. Plus if you’re trading BJ and Bogut for the 1st or 2nd pick that means it’s post season which means your pick is 11-15 again. Tank now!!!

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 6:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Rose won the MVP

I think that counts as “franchise-changing”.

http://twitter.com/WhalesLarry ...but only if you want to see someone still trying to figure Twitter out.

by Mitchell Maurer on Jan 6, 2012 7:09 PM CST up reply actions  

I guess i was thinking of a guy that made a franchise relevant right away

LeBron, Ewing, Shaq Kareem etc.

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 7:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think there is a franchising changing player at the top of this years draft class

Drummond could be the next Kwame, Anthony Davis is resembling Camby, and Barnes is compared to Loul Deng. This draft is deep, but there is no Lebron, Dwight , Griffin clear cut first in this draft class. I’d rather trade Bogut, keep Jennings and get the guy between 6-10, than trade Jennings with Bogut and get Davis. Jennings and say Perry Jones/Thomas Robinson/Lamb sounds perfect to me.

Now if we want to wait a year, I’d ship out Jennings with Bogut to get Shabazz Muhammed, but that is a clear cut No. 1 pick. There will be no debating next year.

by FearTheDeer on Jan 6, 2012 7:17 PM CST reply actions  

Jennings and :Lamb in your backcourt

Okay count me in

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 6, 2012 7:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Is there a better name than Shabazz Muhammed?

I think not.

You’ve been a Shabazz supporter for a while now. What’s the scouting report on this kid?

http://twitter.com/WhalesLarry ...but only if you want to see someone still trying to figure Twitter out.

by Mitchell Maurer on Jan 6, 2012 7:48 PM CST up reply actions  

His games are all over ESPN

I don’t think I’ve seen a guy get so much national HS coverage since Lebron. He’s just an all out stud of a SG. If he could enter the draft this year, he’d go No. 1 overall.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/shabazz-muhammad
I feel like they’ve summed up his game fairly well, except words don’t explain that type of athleticism.

by FearTheDeer on Jan 6, 2012 8:14 PM CST up reply actions  

drummond could be another Kwame - but Calipari said Davis is more advanced than Camby was as freshmen.

If those two [and possibly Barnes] reach their “ceiling” I’d say thay’re franchise changers…. Drummond has Dwight Howard-like physical tools.

I personally think Drummond will be a major bust – and A Davis will be a better, more offensively skilled Camby.

Not sure about Barnes, but I’d say Luol Deng is a WORST case scenario

by victor s on Jan 7, 2012 10:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Here are some thoughts from Givony on Barnes after the Kentucky/NC game in December.
Through eight games this season, Barnes has made just one field goal (a runner against Tennessee State) inside the paint in non-transition, post-up or offensive rebound situations — highlighting his struggles as a shot-creator.

As a catch-and-shoot jump-shooter, Barnes has been terrific, converting 47 percent of his attempts. Unfortunately he’s taken twice as many shots off the dribble than with his feet set, and has converted those at half the efficiency (.65 points per possessions versus 1.36).

Another tweet illustrating his struggles shooting off the dribble:

DraftExpress: RT @FreeportKid: Harrison Barnes points per possession on: catch-and-shoot/no dribbles: 1.39 PPP, 1 dribble: 0.86 PPP, 2+ dribbles: 0.64 PPP

http://www.draftexpress.com

It doesn’t sound like he will be a great iso player, which means he is looking more and more like Deng.

by Brick's house on Jan 7, 2012 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

My preference (to date)

1. Drummond (high risk, high reward)
2. Barnes (high reward, lower risk)
3. Lamb (high reward, lower risk)
4. Jones(high risk, high reward)
5. Davis (high risk, high reward)

I still don’t know that I see the next big thing in that group, I think Drummond/Jones have the highest ceiling, but they don’t strike as unwaivering confident players like Lamb/Barnes.

by FearTheDeer on Jan 7, 2012 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Bucks will probably take Meyers Leonard >.<

I like Sullinger, when was the last time the Bucks had a decent inside threat? Trade Bogut and let the ping-pong balls drop

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 7, 2012 1:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Leonard sounds about right ; )

I really like Sullinger as a college player, but I’m skeptical that his success will trasfer to the NBA…. he’s under-sized and not very explosive.

I think he’ll be an effective pro – but not worthy of a top 5 pick.

by victor s on Jan 7, 2012 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Could Sullinger not be similar to Love?

That wouldn’t be worthy of a top 5?

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 7, 2012 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't see that - but I've been wrong before...

Obviously, he’d be worthy of a top 5 pick if he was gonna turn out like K Love… but that’s a BIG if, IMO.

I see Brandon Bass/Paul Milsap/Glen Davis…. not K Love.

by victor s on Jan 7, 2012 2:30 PM CST up reply actions  

FWIW(Not much really)

Here’s a scouting report with a potential comparison(I think his range separates him from Bass and Davis)

http://walterfootball.com/nbascoutingreport2012jsullinger.php

They didn’t have one for Lamb but here’s their take on Barnes:
http://walterfootball.com/nbascoutingreport2012hbarnes.php

And Davis
http://walterfootball.com/nbascoutingreport2012adavis.php

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 7, 2012 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Another for Sullinger

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jared-sullinger

"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian

by CanadaBucks on Jan 7, 2012 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks, CB.

Perhaps Sullinger will be a poor mans K Love? I do think he’ll be a solid pro… just not sure how solid.

Davis still intrigues me the most of all the top prospects…

by victor s on Jan 7, 2012 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I think Lamb and Davis have the most potential in the NBA

I see Lamb as a Jason Richardson-type [maybe even better] and Davis is just scratching the surface of his potential IMO

by victor s on Jan 7, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions  

It is amazing what a couple of high lottery picks can do for the direction of your franchise.

The Cavs are a much improved team this year due to Irving and Tristan Thompson. Their franchise suddenly looks like it has a future. Did anyone think the Cavs had a future this time last year? Not really.

They were lucky enough to get a trade with a poorly run franchise that gave away an unprotected first rounder just to dump Baron Davis. They were lucky again when that Clippers pick became the number one pick in the draft. They got a third bit of luck when the NBA allowed them to use amnesty to dump Davis.

That is what it takes sometimes to get ahead in this league as a small market franchise, luck. The Bucks haven’t had that.

by Brick's house on Jan 6, 2012 8:13 PM CST reply actions  

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