Hornets 92 Bucks 89: The Sting Of Marco Belinelli
MILWAUKEE -- This was the worst loss of the season -- and the season started with a loss to the Bobcats, who are on a 16-game losing streak, as we type.
Tonight the Bucks lost at home to a 5-23 team missing four starters (Eric Gordon, Emeka Okafor, Carl Landry, Jarrett Jack). So tonight was a night for Gustavo Ayon (starting power forward) and Donald Sloan (top reserve off bench).
The Hornets were excited to win. Jarrett Jack was standing up on the baseline cheering in a suit coat for most of the night. When you are 5-23, make that 6-23, things are much simpler. The highs reach higher and the lows do not hit so hard because you are already so close to the ground. The wins are refreshing, the losses, expected.
Meanwhile, the Bucks are stuck in the middle, but this is not a happy medium. Nestled semi-permanently in between real playoff contention and the high lottery, Bucks fans are split on whether they want their team to win or lose. Fittingly, they get to watch a team that plays with a similar confliction, rising up to best some of the best teams and then falling impossibly low to lose to some of the worst teams -- a split basketball personality that walks a fine line back and forth between charming and bewildering.
This game elicited more despair than anger. And so sometimes you have to indulge in the dismay of it all. Because otherwise you will just lose it -- when you lose your best player to injury, then lose your new best player to malaise, then lose track of airballs in the game, then lose to the New Orleans Hornets.
Three Bucks
Ersan Ilyasova. Missed the mark a few times inside the final few minutes, which is a shame. That the most aggressive player on the court can be at the same time the most indecisive one is just part of the Ersanator Riddle. The scapegoat hurried a shot that came up woefully short, down 84-81, and then could not finish a layup with Chris Kaman contesting down, 89-87. But the hero netted a season-high 23 points, had somehow drawn a charge on Greivis Vasquez right before rushing that shot down 84-81, got to the line more than anyone else in the game, making 4-6 at the stripe, put in diligent work on the boards as usual, and even delivered a highlight block of Marco Belinelli.
After the game, Brandon Jennings said Ersan was the only guy has been playing really play well for the Bucks.
Carlos Delfino. So, one of the five starters earned another start. Delfino continues to anticipate passes and come up with steals, which takes the team out of the halfcourt offense, which is only good news. Threw down a nice dunk to tie the game 45-45 after one of his three steals, but sat out the entire fourth quarter and only played 22 minutes overall.
Jon Leuer. Not quite, but close, when most Bucks were not even close. Leuer was close to ripping and stripping a rebound away from the Hornets, which was close to energizing the crowd. And he was also close to throwing down a big dunk, which also was close to energizing the crowd. Came closer to making more plays in 15 minutes than most of the Bucks the rest of the game.
Three Numbers
10. The Bucks blocked 10 shots -- second most of the season -- led by Larry Sanders (3 in 6 minutes), Drew Gooden (2 in 26 minutes), and Ersan Ilyasova (2 in 36 minutes).
51.4 % The problem is that the Hornets shot 36-70 (.514) on shots that were not blocked, including 7-15 (.467) on threes.
5. Number of players who logged fourth quarter minutes for the Bucks. Scott Skiles elected to run with Brandon Jennings/Stephen Jackson/Mike Dunleavy/Ersan Ilyasova/Jon Leuer for the entire fourth quarter. It did not necessarily work out so badly -- the Bucks won the fourth 24-20 -- but it was an interesting strategy nonetheless.
Three One Good
Drews. First, Gooden, who tossed two straight airballs, delivered a particularly bad outlet pass, and suffered from a questionable shot selection and defensive stance. But he continues to work hard in spite of a sprained wrist and probably some other nagging aches and injuries that he shied away from specifying after the game (instead saying everyone has injuries). He never makes excuses, and keeps plugging away at a position that he is very obviously not suited to play. Gooden is a reasonably capable power forward, but instead starts at center, often guarding real centers, and not only that, but is tasked with supplying a good portion of the offense every night. When you see the player after the game, feet soaking in water, icebag on wrist, drained, you see another side.
Quirky? Yes. Efficient? Not always. Trying? Yeah.
And Bogut. Scott Skiles is in charge and Luc Mbah a Moute is out there, and they are major parts of what used to be an elite defense -- but the real key to the defense in Milwaukee for years has been Bogut. Without him, teams are simply slashing through the lane with little resistance. It was astonishing watching how easily fringe players like Greivis Vasquez and Donald Sloan penetrated and set up teammates for threes and for layups. The Bucks have a below average defense without Bogut, and they are making it painfully obvious. But it does redeem and highlight and underscore Bogut's defensive value, if that was ever necessary.
Three Bad
Brandon. The good news: Brandon Jennings scored 18 points (on 7-21 shooting). The bad news: Brandon Jennings scored 18 points (on 7-21 shooting).
Playing Down. Milwaukee has lost to the two worst teams in the NBA (Bobcats and Hornets) and some of the other worst teams in the NBA (Kings, Suns, Pistons). This has more than canceled out the impressive wins (Spurs, Heat, Lakers, Heat).
BC. The Bucks have lost five straight at home, and now they are an even 7-7 at the Bradley Center after coming back to beat the Heat on Feb. 1. That was really this month.
Follow @brewhoop on Twitter and @alexboeder on Twitter | Like Brew Hoop on Facebook | Join and Start Posting Content
97 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Well with the Knicks surge
And our suckage. This season got out of hand quickly. I know Bogut is gone but I just dont think Skiles has what it takes to get a team over the hump. He keeps team fighting hard but keeps them in that purgatory stage where your not good enough to do anything in the playoffs but not bad enough to build up talent with really good draft choices. With Skiles we will always be on the 8 seed lotto fringe. And I for one am not a fan of that.
i agree
a skiles-led team’s ceiling is probably only a conference final series loss, but the talent around him doesn’t help. Yes, the players aren’t buying into his system, which is at least 50% his fault, but they also haven’t done their part.
by Charlie_Buckets on Feb 15, 2012 11:51 PM CST up reply actions
It means we have players to trade
Two years ago, Miami surged past us for the fifth seed. And that was before Lebron and Bosh. But the East may be too strong this year. Hammond shouldn’t wait much longer, and the next four games will probably add at least 3 losses. He may also have been duped by that recent surge.
by toasterrebound on Feb 16, 2012 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
Jennings
When immaturity and sensitivity mesh, you get:
@BRAND0NJENNINGS And I know I’m not the superstar like Cp3 or Lebron, and DH12… Never said I was, trust me it’s not about the money or anything!
@BRAND0NJENNINGS Never said I was looking for a big contract or max money though…. Putting words in my mouth!
@BRAND0NJENNINGS Chillin w/ stack 5
All post game
Brandon could really use a tip from Aaron Rodgers and close the twitter down during the season. Seems like it’s starting to become a very serious distraction. He’s using it as a cry for help.
by FearTheDeer on Feb 15, 2012 11:51 PM CST up reply actions
Whats stack 5
And he basically did say he wanted the big contract. But that doesnt matter. I could care less how much he gets paid. He is an exciting player and is making Milwaukee basketball fun. I wouldnt mind paying him. Its the fact that he basically said he wants the bright lights is what bothered me
Stack5
He’s referring to datrillstak5. Cap’n jack. I’m starting to get the idea that BJ is seriously disliking the organization
by Van Halen on Feb 16, 2012 12:43 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
"I’m starting to get the idea that BJ is seriously disliking the organization"
Can you blame him?
http://twitter.com/WhalesLarry ...but only if you want to see someone still trying to figure Twitter out.
by Mitchell Maurer on Feb 16, 2012 4:58 AM CST up reply actions
He deserves some blame. His title is professional basketball player. It's not "professional only when things are going well or my friends are happy," it's just professional"
After being drafted by a lottery team, he’s not entitled to a perfect situation in his third season. You only get 5 guys on the floor at a time, and he’s been the feature backcourt player that entire time. How would you describe the play of the Bucks’ backcourt?
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest - News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | SB Nation Basketball - Scores & More | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Feb 16, 2012 7:55 AM CST up reply actions
Ah, that's where you're wrong
His title is professional basketball player.
I’m pretty sure it’s “Curator of Cool.” Also, SWAG.
But, really, he’s an entertainer (like all professional athletes), who while he signed a contract, doesn’t report to someone the same way you or I do.
http://twitter.com/WhalesLarry ...but only if you want to see someone still trying to figure Twitter out.
by Mitchell Maurer on Feb 16, 2012 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
But even if you go with entertainer, those people are paid to perform, whether they feel all warm and fuzzy about everything.
It’s what they are expected to do, and should be held accountable if they don’t put in their best effort.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest - News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | SB Nation Basketball - Scores & More | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Feb 16, 2012 4:17 PM CST up reply actions
the only real entertainment for a fan
is winning. I think he is paid to win.
He’s a semi-star with not nough maturity to understand his actions. I cannot understand on-court pouting, I just think it is the biggest kind of f*** you to all involved. Petulant talent is incredibly difficult to manage, so hard to see a clear way through.
That comment about max money...
Did he hear the Brewhoop podcast where that was discussed? Maybe he has friends telling him about it.
by Brick's house on Feb 16, 2012 7:55 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Haha, and we didn't even attribute the comment to him. Just speculated on the market and what he would likely expect given what comparables have received.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest - News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | SB Nation Basketball - Scores & More | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Feb 16, 2012 7:58 AM CST up reply actions
More Jennings
I wouldn’t be surprised if Jennings read the blogs because he responds to the media. The contract statements were in response to
RT @imBWonder @BRAND0NJENNINGS Legler said you can’t make the players around you better and you aren’t worth MAX money. – cool enough said
Feb 14 @BRAND0NJENNINGS What was said on NBA coast to coast? And who said it!!
He can care what Legler said, but he shouldn’t feel like that needs addressing immediately after a game where he loses and says that he’s hasn’t been playing hard and will have to see if he’s up for it going ahead. He’s being too emotional.
The Jax aka stack 5 part is just throwing unnecessary instigation in the direction of the fans and organization. He knows what the fans and media are saying about him and Jax by now. Jax just had the interview saying that Jennings is “his own man.” It’s well known by both of them. He wrote the same thing after the PHX game which are two of the most discouraging losses for the fans and org where he got post game questions directed at his effort levels. Chillin with stack 5 was a very snide remark. He’s feeding the flame and he knows it.
"He’s feeding the flame and he knows it."
I’d agree.
What does it mean that one of the most stoic and closed-emotions owners in the NBA is banking on two hope-they-are stars in Bogut and Jennings — both of whom are soap-opera emotional?
Is that just another quirky feature of our team’s dysfunction?
I don't think Bogut/Jennings are THAT emotional
They’ve generally been good teammates and haven’t caused issues in the locker room. As brash as Brandon is, he’s not a troublemaker so I’m willing to tolerate the twitter blathering.
by Frank Madden on Feb 16, 2012 3:07 PM CST up reply actions
I don't believe emotional = troublemaker
Emotional means, well, emotional. A personality affected by strong swings of feelings.
Only certain narrow types of emotional people are troublemakers. Other types are terrific athletes because they are fueled by their competitive feelings. Still others fall into different categories. And players with low emotions are usually boring for me to watch.
At RGM, some talk about Bogut being in touch with his inner woman. Whatever one thinks of that as humor or appropriate descriptive analysis, it roughly describes a player who is very different from game to game. Who can carry a team with fire, or disappear on the court. That describes Jennings too, at this stage.
Twitter to me is beside the point. Respectfully submitted. On the point, to me, is whether Skiles has the social skills to Coach a team where the 2 more-nearly dominant players are notably in touch with their inner women.
There is a current book that sets forth that many folks believe in the Authoritarian Father model as the best way to run a family or an organization or a country. While others strongly prefer the Nurturing Couple model.
I think Skiles can do authoritarian. Not sure he can handle nurturing.
I think you're being unfair to women :)
by Frank Madden on Feb 16, 2012 4:50 PM CST up reply actions
Yes.
We long-time veteran would-be communicators are willing to dirty ourselves with misbegotten stereotypes in the service of trying to make a point. It may be a sin, but it’s a sin of the marketplace. As common as potatoes or imported cut flowers. We take mentoring on the use of stereotypes from the political parties. They have shown the way.
I’d ask if you thought I had a point, but if you wished to comment on that you would have… ;)
You smile face with both eyes open. I with one eye closed. Is the difference deep?
Even more Jennings
I like his game on the court, I’d be one of the 1st to say rebuild around his skill set on the court, but I’m not sure that we should keep Jennings for a rebuild anymore. Whether the infliction has come from Jax, Skiles, Kohl, Hammond, fans, the city of Milwaukee, or Jennings himself, he’s been inflicted and has a lack of respect for this franchise and it’s fans. You can’t rebuild around that.
3 quotes
“When immaturity and sensitivity mesh”
That’s a pretty good start to describing Brandon. I’d bet that Jennings does dislike the organization, but he’s not alone. Not sure any of the players think this is a good organization to play for. That’s why they go through the motions without passion. Which describes me as well. I agree that the Bucks management is incompetent, and I watched tonight’s game without passion. “A loss? No problem. Maybe management will get real and do something constructive. …fat chance.”
“This game elicited more despair than anger.”
If despair requires hope thwarted, then I can’t match you Alex. No despair, no anger — just a brief recognition that the Bucks ARE the team we watched tonight. Losing like that is in character.
“the Ersanator Riddle”
"the Ersanator Riddle"
Like most (all?) of our roster, Ersan is an incomplete contributor. Does some useful and distinctive stuff, and not infrequently comes up short in toughness and self-confidence. It was clear at the end that missing the short shot was bothering him. 2 or more teammates consoled him about it. But he still hung on to the disappointment. Hope he learns to avoid that.
Gooden also I think cares about how he plays and how the team performs. I don’t think he’s coasting on his contract. I think he has hunger to do well. I’d put that on the positive side of the ledger. Skiles said Gooden was a bit banged up (wrist?). Maybe we’ll see more of Leuer.
“a split basketball personality that walks a fine line back and forth between charming and bewildering.”
I sure agree that the Bucks have a split basketball personality. Is that common in the NBA? I’d say not — but maybe I’m too close.
The second half of that phrase puzzled me. I wouldn’t have called it a fine line, just like I wouldn’t call the transformations of Dr. Jeylll & Mr. Hyde a fine line. Unless of course your fine line is a wire stretched across a yawning abyss with storms and monsters on one side and sun, flowered fields and fair maidens on the other. Plus, “charming” and “bewildering” are such polite, genteel words that your Ma & Pa must have raised you to be a fine young gentleman. I might have gone with “satisfying” and “maddening” but taste is taste, and understatement often can make a better point than loaded words.
Cap'n Jack
He may well prove to be the key player in this season’s Bucks drama.
There well could be a very interesting story there, and my money says the J-S never comes close to it.
With Bogut in shambles, Jennings is the main man. And who seems to have his ear? The Good Cap’n. Plus who else on the team (including Harris) may be strongly influenced in their opinions of our franchise by the vision of veteran Jackson?
At least two scenarios may be offered.
One, Jackson is a clubhouse lawyer, making trouble because he wasn’t given an extension. Because he wasn’t featured on the court. Spreading conflict where none need have existed.
Two, Steven Jackson came to Milwaukee with an open mind. Then he realized that this is a franchise that fails repeatedly and steadfastly refuses to acknowledge the problems and take effective steps. Realized that this franchise has virtually no chance at winning — because of the owner, the GM and other management types. (Not sure about Skiles.)
In this scenario, it wasn’t that he didn’t like Milwaukee. Wasn’t that he came here full of overweening greed. It was that he took the time to size up what this franchise is, and thinks it really stinks. It could be his objective view that any player who wants to win and cares for his career should get out of town fast.
5 or 10 years from now, when Brandon thinks back to this ear in Milwaukee, he may thank his lucky stars that he hooked up with and listened to Cap’n Jack…
Honestly in listening to interviews with Jack, he doesn’t come across as irrational. Maybe that talk about an extension was whack, but hey of you don’t ask, you don’t receive.
All in all the Bucks are perennially disappointing and irrelevant. Nobody seems to care about the team except for people like ourselves. Skiles has zero charisma and a perma-scowl.
by Van Halen on Feb 16, 2012 2:16 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Think you might be giving Jackson too much credit, chuk.
Don’t remember him complaining at all about his recent time with the Charlotte Bobcats (perhaps the most mismanaged franchise in the entire leage) toiling away in NBA hell, so long as he got his minutes and was still playing out a long term deal. Those teams never won anything and never had a chance, but Jackson was the centerpiece and that suited him just fine.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest - News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | SB Nation Basketball - Scores & More | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Feb 16, 2012 7:52 AM CST up reply actions
Point of order, Mr. Chariman...
I sketched out two rather extreme scenarios, without committing to either. (Although giving the 2nd more words accurately suggests that I find it more interesting.) I’d expect the truth (if humans can know the truth) to be somewhere in between.
If the Jennings thing ends poorly, I think Cap’n Jack may be vilified for causing it. Other places more than here. Thought I’d raise the possibility of a Jackson who does The Right Thing, which hurts the team we follow but deservedly so.
What's he saying to Jennings?
Guilt by association? He has bad habits but hasn’t bitched about not playing.
by toasterrebound on Feb 16, 2012 3:06 PM CST up reply actions
Jennings has publicly commented that he’s learning the business of the NBA. I’d guess that Cap’n Jack at minimum is telling him to “Look out for yourself, young man. No one else will. A team will be loyal to you only as long as you’re giving them more than they’re giving you. When you stop being important to them, they turn their back.”
That’s at minimum. He might be saying: “Trust me, young man, this Bucks franchise sucks big time. You have no future here. Get out ASAP. You’re going to have to be as mean and rough as it takes to get out.”
Jackson Cancer
This is my analysis. Jackson comes with an instructions label that has a warning. He’s been fine everywhere else he went as most of his previous teammates and coaches hold him in high regard and have followed the instructions label. We’ve decided to not follow the instructions label and ignored the warning to not bench him when he’s looking for a contract extension towards the end of his career, not start him, etc. If those things never happen, this situation never happens. We all know who ignored the warning on the instructions label…Skiles…Fire Skiles.
I wouldn't fire Skiles for benching a guy who was generally playing poorly
In a rational world Jax is probably a 15-25 mpg guy, so I hate the idea of being held hostage to his overinflated opinion of himself.
That said, I do agree that the Bucks should have known the deal when they brought him here. And that’s why I assumed Skiles would play him big minutes regardless of his inefficiency. That’s also why I think there was more to Skiles suddenly benching him than just poor play.
by Frank Madden on Feb 16, 2012 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
If he was productive
Skiles might overlook the other stuff.
by toasterrebound on Feb 16, 2012 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
I'm calling for Skiles' head
It might be the “easy” solution but I believe he has lost the team and we need a change, His three year window is up, thanks for the memories Scott.
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
I had a dream last night
that when I woke up, BrewHoop, RealGM, Hoopsworld, etc were all headlining “Bucks fire Skiles”, I was thrilled, then I woke up and saw nothing close.
Like troubled marriages...
The Team and the Coach. Both bring out the least in each other. If the players could hold on to a belief in the game that is religion to Skiles, he could care about them and give them everything he has. Which is quite a bit. But because the Team is within the context of the dysfunctional Franchise, the players have lost belief. Skiles can’t respect that — so he doesn’t really support them. He makes demands. He’s arbitrary and stubborn.
It isn’t working. But I suspect the Franchise is too dysfunctional to do anything about it. Unless the owner wakes up.
throwin in the towel
I have stubbornly, perhaps irrationally, persisted in believing the Bucks can be good this year. I haven’t given up on a return to what we were two years ago, blaming last season on injuries and bad chemistry, worrying this season about Bogut going out. Buoyed by that incredible stretch from the win at Miami to the win over Miami here. But last night did it for me. I give up; these guys don’t have it, can’t do it. Aren’t the hardworking underdog guys I fell for 2 years ago…
I might stop watching games…for a while……
Jane, you've been one of the most optimistic about the simple joy of NBA games this season.
This makes me sad, but to say the Bucks have abused your faith would be a gross understatement.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest - News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | SB Nation Basketball - Scores & More | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Feb 16, 2012 7:57 AM CST up reply actions
"I might stop watching games…for a while……"
Why not? There’s nothing to see right now. List the qualities that make a team worth watching and the Bucks currently have none of them. The fans should turn away. The team should act boldly.
You say: “for a while…….” To me that suggests that if the Bucks change and become watchable, you’ll watch. What could be saner?
NOOOOOOOOOOO
http://twitter.com/WhalesLarry ...but only if you want to see someone still trying to figure Twitter out.
by Mitchell Maurer on Feb 16, 2012 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
Bogutless Bucks
I think that I kidded myself that a Bucks team without Bogut could be a .500 team. It appears that the reality is that the Bucks were a .500 team with Bogut and without him, the Bucks begin to look more like the Hornets than the Knicks or Celtics. In the end, it may be a lack of talent. This seems more obvious when you look at the Bulls and Hornets games. I do not think that this is a Skiles problem. He is trying (virtually anything) to turn it around regardless of how it affects his players. It may be past time to begin the process of playing Leuer and Harris major minutes to assess what we have and need for next year when Bogut is healthy. Hopefully, we won’t lose Jennings in the meantime. Hammond has his hands full. His seat must be quite hot. We will soon find out if he is up to the job.
He needs to sign a center
Guys like Dampier, Solomon Jones who we saw last night, just keep slipping through his fingers. Bogut may be back mid March.
by toasterrebound on Feb 16, 2012 2:48 PM CST up reply actions
PLEASE trade Jennings....
This team is going nowhere – he’s alluded to the fact that he won’t stay when his deal is up – and he’ll bring back the most in return.
Not to mention that his attitude/demeanor sucks right now – and it’s quite possible that Skiles has lost him – and Jax is his mentor/role model [puke]
Utah did the right thing by cutting D Williams loose before he could walk – why wouldn’t Milw do the same w/ BJ?
D Will was proven and they still got ripped off.
by toasterrebound on Feb 16, 2012 2:50 PM CST up reply actions
I beg to differ
I think Utah came out ahead but that’s just me.
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
BJ is seriously disliking the organization
I’m seriously disliking the organization right now too, and I don’t even work for them. It HAS to be disheartening to play for a mismanaged crapshow.
As it was alluded to on the tv broadcast last night many times, this was going to be an effort game. the Bucks just looked like they didnt’ care. The question I have is why bother even keeping Skiles? Defensive minded coach with a bad defense and players that won’t play hard for him (with exception). Won’t give earned minutes to the two rookies, sits Delfino for extended periods for seemingly no good reason, can’t design an end of game play to save his hide, etc. etc. etc.
I too have thrown the towel in. Trade who you can with the exception of BJ, Bogut, Leuer, Harris, Livingston, Erson, and Dunleavy. Get rid of them, possibly get some cap releif and draft picks or young players. this season is gone
BJ can dislike the organization all he wants - he's a professional who gets paid millions of dollars
And he’s certainly not helping his cause/upcoming FA by spouting off and playing like crap…
Nor helping the team
Much better players than him were snubbed for the All Star game: Carlos Boozer, Josh Smith, Danny Granger, Andre Iguodala, Amare Stoudemire. An argument could be made for Kyrie Irving.
by toasterrebound on Feb 16, 2012 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
I would like to give Skiles a chance to coach a team where the direction is clear rebuild... where he is told to try to win with the young guys...
he is a good coach but i feel he is hurt by the fact this team is stuck in no mans land… there isnt a coach in the league that could survive in the setting that Kohl has created here…
Kohl didn't put this team together - Hammond did - and he prob had a lot of input from Skiles
There’s plenty of blame to go around, but I fail to see how Kohl is at fault…
He has to take some blame ....
But I generally agree that it is mostly Hammonds and Skiles. They both have to go; we need people in there you can build a team with young talent.
Right on, tommy.
He does have to take some blame – but it mostly sits w/ JH and Skiles.
Coming into this season, I was willing to give them both the benefit of the doubt – but the wheels have come off and a wholesale house cleaning is probably best for all involved…
He constantly is creating a culture of stay afloat by all means... he needs to tell his guys to relax, rebuild, and we will be better for it in 3 years...
He sets the culture around the organization and it isn’t and hasn’t been a good one
by Superelkman on Feb 16, 2012 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
in my book...
Kohl gets credit for keeping the team in Milwaukee. And for having more never-say-die spirit than most men could muster.
But he is said to meddle in the trades and signings. And those have not gone well. And he has a loooong record of poor hiring decisions. He either hires people who can’t do the job, like Larry K. And perhaps Hammond. Or he hires strong competent people (like Don Nelson and George Karl) that for some reason he can’t get along with. Maybe it’s the meddling. The strong ones leave.
Whatever his skills as a businessman, as a Senator, or in any other area, I believe his record shows that he has a low basketball IQ.
I am curious as to how they turn it around...
I mean making the Bucks an attractive team for FA’s, or look at some kind of slow burn rebuild a la Philly through the draft and a couple of vets?
Great recap Alex.
I liked the slightly philosophical, considering tone you took in what was obviously a nightmare game rather than just shooting from the hip as instinct would suggest.
I particularly liked the Gooden summary – I wasn’t a major fan of his pre-Bogut injury and I agree that there will always be those ‘brain-explosion’ moments that only Drew can provide, but hey, the guy must be playing over 35 minutes a night and is doing pretty well.
Considering he is starting after a previous season with limited action due to the foot problem and garbage minutes this year pre-Bogut injury, he is doing pretty well defending guys one-on-one who are invariably bigger than him and often (not always) doing a credible job (nice work on Howard for example), whilst throwing up about 20 and 8 over the stretch since the injury.
I agree you can question his decisions at times, but just imagine the situation if he hadn’t stepped up…there is sadly no-one more capable than him on our roster at the pivot at the moment and if he had played old-style Gooden (or Badden as some have called it) we would not even have been competitive in most of the games we lost, let alone the ones we actually managed to win.
He is much maligned, but as Alex said – the effort he has given to try and carry this team (and hell it’s a considerable weight to carry, particularly whilst BJ has some kind of teenage identity crisis) means Gooden deserves real respect from the fans and his peers.
He is playing his a$$ off but needs some help from this team. He must be absolutely gassed most nights and can’t take one end of the floor off at any time.
Strangely if he got real burn at PF when Bogut comes back, perhaps his newfound offensive presence and a license to roam would really help space things out.
I know Frank and I disagree about this but
I really think you sit BJ down for a game………he needs a message or a kickstart or something
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
But really that doesn't matter anyway
The situation needs to be addressed and if he doesn’t like it, then we should shop him. The team needs tp be bigger than any one player
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
I was originally against the trade Jennings idea.
But with his sudden unhappiness and obvious eagerness to leave the team, trading him may not be a bad idea. We can get some good pieces back that can help us in the rebuilding process, which we unfortunately seem to be heading towards.
On Wisconsin!
Interesting how the Bucks season is rapidly becoming polarised around BJ...
The two articles written by Steve and Mitchell re: Jennings – one for and one against (to simplify), may be the two ends of our season and I suspect we will spend a lot of time debating the in-between…
Yea, that's where we are headed. That's why the first article I wrote about Jennings had such an urgent tone. It's getting to be decision time.
The second story I tried to work the in-between you mentioned by giving some prescriptive content.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest - News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | SB Nation Basketball - Scores & More | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Feb 16, 2012 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
I AM FRIGHTENED.
http://twitter.com/WhalesLarry ...but only if you want to see someone still trying to figure Twitter out.
by Mitchell Maurer on Feb 16, 2012 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
This is what I do
Sit him down and talk to him and say something to the effect of “We’re going to have you inactive for next game, we need you to be on the same page as us, committed to the franchise so long as your here.” If he puts up a fuss I then shop him, if not we have an engaged employee. I’m not hell-bent on trading him just yet, I’d like to give him an opportunity to see if he’s with us or not as ne has not been a problem to date.
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
Acid test for sure
But I imagine Kohl has commercial considerations around BJ – ie. trading him for spare parts and picks pretty much guarantees that the BC is empty the rest of the season, particularly as the Bucks will lose even more frequently. Lose a bit in terms of TV as well maybe (then I imagine the Bucks don’t get much national airplay anyway…not being in America it’s hard to judge). And I guess until last week at least guys woulda come to Milwaukee to play with Jennings…FA market etc.
Then again, isolating the fans through ill-advised tweets and questioning publicly your own motivation to play (however honest) damages all of that anyways.
Man ,Jennings was psyched over the lockout, jumping around exhibitions, ready to take on the NBA single-handedly when it restarted. This season has definitely hit a low.
Yeah, this is important
Just take a look at the BC gift shop and tell me it’d be easy to deal Jennings…many of us might be sober about Jennings’ strengths/weaknesses, but a lot of casual fans would be up in arms if he was traded for anything less than a superstar…
by Frank Madden on Feb 16, 2012 6:05 PM CST up reply actions
Catering to the uninformed can't be the best answer though.
Most people could get on board if they get picks back in the this draft, or swap out Jennings for another young player and just start Beno and Livingston at PG. Wouldn’t be much of a dropoff this year, honestly, and then you can sell whomever you pick in 2012.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest - News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | SB Nation Basketball - Scores & More | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Feb 16, 2012 6:18 PM CST up reply actions
No, but it's not immaterial to how they'll be thinking about things...
I have to think any big trade would come around draft time—they do a big deal every year around the draft. Salmons really the only move of any significance during the season.
by Frank Madden on Feb 16, 2012 9:01 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed.
But when’s the last time they have been legitimately outside of playoff contention AND had a serious injury to a top player to push the envelope?
Maybe this is the year they are sellers at the deadline.
SB Nation Brew Hoop - Editor | SB Nation Midwest - News Desk Contributor | SB Nation Chicago - Writer | SB Nation Basketball - Scores & More | Twitter: @stevevonhorn
by Steve von Horn on Feb 16, 2012 9:06 PM CST up reply actions
Steve you are 100% correct here
I don’t say that often but in this case(IMO)you are, if you think trading BJ is the best for the organization(I can’t say it is without insice knowledge of what is really happening)then you do it regardless of the casual fan’s attitude.
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
by CanadaBucks on Feb 16, 2012 10:05 PM CST up reply actions
I'd be all for keeping BJ, IF...
1. He showed maturity in his game and his overall demaenor… which he has not [I know he started the season pretty hot, but has regressed to his old self]
2. He was to declare his desire to remain a Buck, and showed a genuine desire to stay here long-term… instead, he has alluded to the opposite.
Why coddle this kid when he seems to be a petulant brat? He will most likely bolt in FA, if he doesn’t demand a trade first… [im guessing that’s his next move]
Trade him while you still can get good value – and before his play/attitude become a major distraction…
Since everyone seems to think JH & Skiles should go, my argument is who do yoi think will replace them that is any better?
by DGub on Feb 16, 2012 2:34 PM CST via Android app reply actions
Since Kohl hasnt brought in anyone good in a decade…
by DGub on Feb 16, 2012 2:35 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Hire the Czar
Mike Fratello, if he still wants to coach. He got the most out of the Hawks and Cavs. Sid would be the sentimental choice, but we need experience.
Coaching prospects that are still assistants
Mike Budenholzer (assistant for the spurs) or Quin Snyder (assistant for the 76ers). I say Snider since he is more of a people coach and is good at developing young talent. Which I feel is what we need right now. I have felt that skiles has lost the team and we do need a change.
These would be my top 2.
I'd be OK giving Skiles one more - but I'd have no problem if they fired him today....
As long as they got a suitable replacement… J Sloan, Fratello, Jeff Van Gundy.
Didn’t Dave Cowens have some success as a head coach?
I’d reeeeealy prefer someone w/ head coaching experience who has at least led a team to the POs – ideally, deep into the POs.
Sloan is tired of coaching
Cowens was player coach for Boston just before Larry Bird and they won 29 games. He also coached Golden State, don’t remember how he did there.
by toasterrebound on Feb 16, 2012 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
On the GM front, not that I am necessarily for outing Hammond -
To be honest, when he makes mistakes he is at least able to flip them pretty quickly (sometimes for more mistakes but hey).
The likes of Paul Allen and Donald Sterling have been through enough GM’s there must be something decent out there.
Mark Warkentien? Think he is buried in the FO somewhere on the Knicks?
Ok it's Golden State
How well could he have done…appoint one of your assistants as interim.
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
Golden State =Milwaukee
Both struggling franchises, occasional playoff appearance, middle of the pack.
by toasterrebound on Feb 17, 2012 6:43 PM CST up reply actions
I read that Sloan would be open to coach again in the "right situation" - I doubt that's here
I’m a big Rick Adelman fan – and was bummed he went to MN.
Sad day for me in the sporting world
One of my early sports heroes Gary “the kid” Carter passed away at 57.
"He always plays like he's a pit bull that hasn't been fed in about a year and that you've got pork chops in your pockets and that's the basketball." Of course, he's Canadian
Canada, I grieve with you ....
I grew up watching him, albeit not on my team, as he was with yours. A sad story, so young.






















